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Tom Brady is to QB's as Terrel Davis is to RB's

P

PlatinumGold

Lifer
spectacular for a short period of time but many other players could achieve similar results because of the system they are in.

discuss.
 
Originally posted by: vi_edit
The Patriots what Dana Carvey was to SNL.
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that's pretty good. mb better than the analogy i had intended to put in before my finger slipped and hit the enter button. 😉

anyway, i did edit the OP.
 
What P Diddy was to hiphop (in the right place at the right time with the right people around him like Biggie and Mase).
 
I could not disagree more Pgold.

What "system" do the Patriots use that is exactly QB friendly?

Of their 3 super bowl championship teams, only 1 had a good RB (Dillon), and none of the 3 had anything more than an average group of WR's and TE's.

I agree that Terrell Davis was largely a byproduct of the Bronco's gameplan, but he was also clearly the best of the backs that have gone through that system.
 
NE won 3 super bowls becuase of a defense that could shut people down....and an excellent coaching staff.......there offense was told not to screw it up...kinda like the ravens in 2000...
 
With a crap QB they would not have had some of their intense 4th quarter drives. For example, the one in the super bowl against st. louis. And how many QBs even knew the tuck rule, much less would be able to use it in a pinch. 😀
 
Originally posted by: NeoV
I could not disagree more Pgold.

What "system" do the Patriots use that is exactly QB friendly?

Of their 3 super bowl championship teams, only 1 had a good RB (Dillon), and none of the 3 had anything more than an average group of WR's and TE's.

I agree that Terrell Davis was largely a byproduct of the Bronco's gameplan, but he was also clearly the best of the backs that have gone through that system.
Click to expand...
The Pats' system is to nickel and dime defenses to death with short yardage passing plays (and the occasional bomb to keep them honest). It's insanely hard to defend against 3 step drop/slant. Brady's ability to execute the short pass with precision was great but nothing a good passer like Peyton couldn't learn. And that's just one facet of their very complex offense but that's what "the system" is best known for. 😉

 
Originally posted by: NeoV
I could not disagree more Pgold.

What "system" do the Patriots use that is exactly QB friendly?

Of their 3 super bowl championship teams, only 1 had a good RB (Dillon), and none of the 3 had anything more than an average group of WR's and TE's.

I agree that Terrell Davis was largely a byproduct of the Bronco's gameplan, but he was also clearly the best of the backs that have gone through that system.
Click to expand...

when have you NOT disagreed with me about sports?
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
spectacular for a short period of time but many other players could achieve similar results because of the system they are in.

discuss.
Click to expand...

This is no different than Joe Montana.

People who didn't like Montana used to rip him because:

1. He played for a great team with a good O-line
2. He had Jerry Rice
3. He didn't call his own plays.

The truth is that you can find an angle to disparage just about elite player in any sport if you don't like a guy. As long as Tom Brady doesn't stop playing today he will be in the Hall of Fame.
 
Originally posted by: mpitts
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
spectacular for a short period of time but many other players could achieve similar results because of the system they are in.

discuss.
Click to expand...

This is no different than Joe Montana.

People who didn't like Montana used to rip him because:

1. He played for a great team with a good O-line
2. He had Jerry Rice
3. He didn't call his own plays.

The truth is that you can find an angle to disparage just about elite player in any sport if you don't like a guy. As long as Tom Brady doesn't stop playing today he will be in the Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...

actually, i've made the argument many many times that had Montana been drafted by Al Davis and the Raiders instead of the Niners, he would have washed out and never been heard from again. the system he was in was VERY VERY crucial to his success.

same is true for Aikman.

 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: mpitts
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
spectacular for a short period of time but many other players could achieve similar results because of the system they are in.

discuss.
Click to expand...

This is no different than Joe Montana.

People who didn't like Montana used to rip him because:

1. He played for a great team with a good O-line
2. He had Jerry Rice
3. He didn't call his own plays.

The truth is that you can find an angle to disparage just about elite player in any sport if you don't like a guy. As long as Tom Brady doesn't stop playing today he will be in the Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...

actually, i've made the argument many many times that had Montana been drafted by Al Davis and the Raiders instead of the Niners, he would have washed out and never been heard from again. the system he was in was VERY VERY crucial to his success.

same is true for Aikman.
Click to expand...

And Bradshaw..

And Griese

etc etc etc..
 
Originally posted by: mpitts
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: mpitts
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
spectacular for a short period of time but many other players could achieve similar results because of the system they are in.

discuss.
Click to expand...

This is no different than Joe Montana.

People who didn't like Montana used to rip him because:

1. He played for a great team with a good O-line
2. He had Jerry Rice
3. He didn't call his own plays.

The truth is that you can find an angle to disparage just about elite player in any sport if you don't like a guy. As long as Tom Brady doesn't stop playing today he will be in the Hall of Fame.
Click to expand...

actually, i've made the argument many many times that had Montana been drafted by Al Davis and the Raiders instead of the Niners, he would have washed out and never been heard from again. the system he was in was VERY VERY crucial to his success.

same is true for Aikman.
Click to expand...

And Bradshaw..

And Griese

etc etc etc..
Click to expand...

i disagree, i think some qb's transcend systems and will keep finding a home, for example jeff george, he sucked as a qb no matter what the system but coaches kept giving him chance after chance because he had a great arm.

Testeverde is another example of a QB without the mental game but had the physical tools.

Aikman would have been successful in many different systems because he had talent.

Steve Young didn't need the west coast offense to make him great.

Joe Montana without the west coast offense is just another rick mirer.
 
Here are his stats

Cool under pressure is how I see Tom Brady when I watch him. Pretty amazing stuff. I don't think he is Hall of Fame if he hadn't won three Super Bowls already if he quit today but it would be close. Prorate his numbers out five or six more seasons and he is a lock.
 
ok, stop this now.....

"Joe Montana without the west coast offense is just another rick mirer."

He's in the top 5 QB's of all time list, period, the only thing he has in common with Rick Mirer is Notre Dame and they were both QB's.

Are you kidding me? Just because a QB doesn't have a rocket arm, or great mobility, doesn't mean he is a product of a system, you've gone WAY too far with that statement. Accuracy and intelligence are the two most important attributes a QB can have, and when I say intelligence I'm talking about the ability to understand where your recievers are and the ability to react to what the defense is doing - let's just call it "offensive intelligence".

Tom Brady has a very good arm, by the way..maybe not Jeff George/John Elway/Brett Favre/M.Vick strong, but it's plenty strong, probably middle of the pack among NFL QB's.

How good was Steve Young, by the way, as the Tampa QB?

Lets talk about the so-called "Patriot System" on offense with real stats, and you can see how wrong you are.

If it's all "dink and dunk" stuff, with a very average cast of receivers, wouldn't you expect Brady's yards per completion to be low compared to other NFL QB's?

Among starting QB's, Ben Rothlisberger is first, at 14.2 yds per completion, then Jake Delhomme at 13.1, Eli Manning at 12.8, and Trent Green at 12.7. Next up is Kerry Collins at 12.4 (Oak last year).
Next up is Tom Brady at 12.3.....tied with none other than Peyton Manning. At the bottom of the list is David Carr, at 9.7.

Brady also led the NFL in passing yards last season.

He's a great QB, period. There is no magic to the Patriot's offensive system. Dillon was banged up last year, teams knew the Pats were going to come out throwing, and Brady still got the job done.
 
Yeah, cuz everyone knows the west coast system is what won all those 4th quarters when joe montana was playing from behind.
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: NeoV
I could not disagree more Pgold.

What "system" do the Patriots use that is exactly QB friendly?

Of their 3 super bowl championship teams, only 1 had a good RB (Dillon), and none of the 3 had anything more than an average group of WR's and TE's.

I agree that Terrell Davis was largely a byproduct of the Bronco's gameplan, but he was also clearly the best of the backs that have gone through that system.
Click to expand...

when have you NOT disagreed with me about sports?
Click to expand...
Well we all know that you fancy yourself as some kind of expert so if you were to quit now you could be accurately compared to Dennis Miller during his Monday Night Football tenure.

 
As a Rams fan, I know that the Pats were just handed the SB his first year, and they were clearly cheating (well, at least getting calls they weren't entitled to and not getting penalized when they should have been).

However, I firmly believe that if you don't think Tom Brady is the best QB out there today, you're an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about. Period. I don't care that his passes are short. He's working with lackluster receivers, and if I had a game on the line, there's no QB in the NFL that I'd rather have on my team than him.
 
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
spectacular for a short period of time but many other players could achieve similar results because of the system they are in.

discuss.
Click to expand...

Absolutely incorrect. Anyone even familiar with Brady as a QB would disagree. Brady may be the smartest QB in the game, definitely the most cerebral. You can't find a better clutch QB in the league. And he has done what he has without anywhere near the weapons other top QBs have around them. It's amazing he got his team to the playoffs last year given what he had.
 
Originally posted by: Ilmater
As a Rams fan, I know that the Pats were just handed the SB his first year, and they were clearly cheating (well, at least getting calls they weren't entitled to and not getting penalized when they should have been).

However, I firmly believe that if you don't think Tom Brady is the best QB out there today, you're an idiot and have no idea what you're talking about. Period. I don't care that his passes are short. He's working with lackluster receivers, and if I had a game on the line, there's no QB in the NFL that I'd rather have on my team than him.
Click to expand...

QFT. I would much rather have Tom Brady in a close game than Peyton Manning. Manning chokes, Brady doesn't. End of story.
 
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