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Today is a wonderful day, today is my first day as an athiest

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NOTICE THIS



Raspewtin : Wait a minute, are you saying that you believe non-Christians go to hell?

FFMCobalt : exactly. The Bible says that.



This is what stops religios people for making their own decisions, they never even think that the bible might be wrong, they never seek new knowledge if the bible has something to say about it, they accept life as it is, they do not seek progress, they are drones.
Think for yourself, dont let someone else do your job.
 
Genesis chapter 1 sets forth six days of creation, but chapter 2 speaks of the "day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens." Genesis chapter 1 states that the fruit trees were created before man, but chapter 2 indicates that the fruit trees were created after man. Genesis 1:20 says that the fowl were created out of the waters, but Genesis 2:19 states that the fowl were created out of the ground.

Cobalt,

So was creation in one day or six days? Did fowl come from the waters or the ground? Were fruit trees created before or after man?

Because the Bible is inconsistent, it makes no sense to say you believe all of it is true, because that's not possible. It's not even a question of faith, because you are given two clashing accounts in your one book.

 
Throughout history, other religions have been ridiculed by modern day peoples. The polytheistic way of life, having a god of water, god of tree, god of sun) has been trashed so many times, but the people of the time *believed* it was true.

Today is no different.

I find all religion to be rediculous, as the thought of having someone be a greater being than us and creating everything is absurd.


Ok how about an example. We, people, are animals. Homo Sapien. Dogs, mans best friend, are animals also. If your dog would not perform certain functions, such as chasing a ball, because it is against his "religion" and he feared being saved if he had done so, would you not be confused? What about a dog epic, where another "goddog" created this whole world and created people to look after the dogs as their "guardian angels." Do you think any of this is not absurd? It IS absurd, and i think we all know this. And the only difference between us and a dog other than physical changes, is our mental ability to imagine and REASON.
 
It's hard to see the forest for the cabbage, but did anybody pay special note to what I would have thought deserved some special consideration. Athanasius's quote of C.S. Lewis:

<< My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of &quot;just&quot; and &quot;unjust&quot;? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe to when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be a part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too-- for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not please my private fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist-- in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless-- I was forced to assume that one part of reality-- namely my idea of justice-- was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. &quot;Dark&quot; would be without meaning. >>

The think that destroyed my faith in God was an intense need to feel that all the evil in the world is made right by Justice in the end, and to prove that the source of that Justice exists. Perhaps because I was never exposed to someone like Athanasius at this time in my life, I was unable to find my way through this and came to the conclusion that there is no proof of God and there is no God. The weird thing was that despite the fact that I knew that everything is meaningless, that there is no difference between good and evil, that one can choose one or the other without consequence, barring human intervention, I could never quite shake the certainty that there was a difference. But because I also knew intellectually that there is no difference, my world collapsed in blackness. I could never be happy in a meaningless world. (for those who are probably already tired of hearing this story, my apologies)

Anyway, in truly surrendering to the fact that the world is without meaning, that is to say letting go of my cabbage that there MUST be meaning for ther to be Love like God's Love, I discovered that I love. Love did not die. There is meaning. There is truth. There is love. It can't die. It is what each of us is underneath our thousand pounds of cabbage.

Whether our true selves are the image of what we were made in, I'll leave you to decide. That there is a true self there, independent of what you do or don't believe, I have no doubt.

He who tastes, knows.

 
<<stop. You show me your &quot;missing links&quot; that aren't some sort of pig's tooth and I'll believe that man came from apes.


Things don't evolve into something better over time. They get worse. Why do you think inbreeding eventually causes deformed pieces of crap?

Do you believe in the Laws of Thermodynamics? >>

Look, I said it once and I will say it again. You have a failed understanding of Evolutionary theory, Thermodynamics and any of the other strawman arguments you wanna throw out there. Please consult the FAQ link I provided above and read and learn something. Because you DON'T understand.
 
FFMCobalt,

At the very least, take an anthropology class before you start spewing ignorance. Your first statement was aleady incorrect, evolution does not show that people evolved from apes. Apes are here now, we evolved gradually from more primitive human forms. Apes and humans have a common ancestor somewhere down the line.
 
I love that whole 'faith' excuse that christians use to avoid having proof of anything. Because some people a long time ago claimed that there was this god, and he wanted churches to honor him, and he wanted people to give large sums of money to said churches so the churches can look nice.

Reminds me of Santa Claus: A myth made up by your parents to get children to act the way they want them to.
 


<< I love that whole 'faith' excuse that christians use to avoid having proof of anything. >>



Ok... how about you? This is basically what I said before, but please PROVE that God doesn't exist. If you are an atheist, and you cannot PROVE that there is no God, then you are living a life just as full of faith as the Theist. The only difference is that you are hypocritical in pointing a finger at believers and saying that they &quot;only&quot; have faith, when in fact that is all you have also.

Moonbeam, I love reading Athanasius' posts too. Unfortunatly, I think that some of the more vociferous here are too busy listening to their own thoughts and arguements to take the time to really read and consider what he posted. I'm certainly glad that at least we two have.

Joe
 
FFM Cobalt: Your lack of understanding of evolutionary theory and basic science is astounding.

Your &quot;bone-rock&quot; dialog is laughable in its ignorance.

For more information on transitional fossils, read this before you attempt to talk paleontology anymore. The introduction to it reads: &quot;I wrote this FAQ as a reference for answering the &quot;there aren't any transitional fossils&quot; statement that pops up on talk.origins several times each year. I've tried to make it an accurate, though highly condensed, summary of known vertebrate fossil history in those lineages that led to familiar modern forms, with the known transitions and with the known major gaps both clearly mentioned.&quot; Also, as Zucchini mentioned, an anthropology class would be good for you. Perhaps when toolgirl, an anthropology major, gets back from class, she will offer a little bit insight into the predecessors of homo sapiens.



<< Things don't evolve into something better over time. They get worse. Why do you think inbreeding eventually causes deformed pieces of crap? >>

Microevolution has been observed in the real world, it is a documented fact that microevolution is true. I don't see where inbreeding comes into the argument, it is irrelevant.



<< Do you believe in the Laws of Thermodynamics? >>


From here:
&quot;
&quot;Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.&quot;

This shows more a misconception about thermodynamics than about evolution. The second law of thermodynamics says, &quot;No process is possible in which the sole result is the transfer of energy from a cooler to a hotter body.&quot; [Atkins, 1984, The Second Law, pg. 25] Now you may be scratching your head wondering what this has to do with evolution. The confusion arises when the 2nd law is phrased in another equivalent way, &quot;The entropy of a closed system cannot decrease.&quot; Entropy is an indication of unusable energy and often (but not always!) corresponds to intuitive notions of disorder or randomness. Creationists thus misinterpret the 2nd law to say that things invariably progress from order to disorder.

However, they neglect the fact that life is not a closed system. The sun provides more than enough energy to drive things. If a mature tomato plant can have more usable energy than the seed it grew from, why should anyone expect that the next generation of tomatoes can't have more usable energy still? Creationists sometimes try to get around this by claiming that the information carried by living things lets them create order. However, not only is life irrelevant to the 2nd law, but order from disorder is common in nonliving systems, too. Snowflakes, sand dunes, tornadoes, stalactites, graded river beds, and lightning are just a few examples of order coming from disorder in nature; none require an intelligent program to achieve that order. In any nontrivial system with lots of energy flowing through it, you are almost certain to find order arising somewhere in the system. If order from disorder is supposed to violate the 2nd law of thermodynamics, why is it ubiquitous in nature?

The thermodynamics argument against evolution displays a misconception about evolution as well as about thermodynamics, since a clear understanding of how evolution works should reveal major flaws in the argument. Evolution says that organisms reproduce with only small changes between generations (after their own kind, so to speak). For example, animals might have appendages which are longer or shorter, thicker or flatter, lighter or darker than their parents. Occasionally, a change might be on the order of having four or six fingers instead of five. Once the differences appear, the theory of evolution calls for differential reproductive success. For example, maybe the animals with longer appendages survive to have more offspring than short-appendaged ones. All of these processes can be observed today. They obviously don't violate any physical laws.&quot;

Claim that dating of fossils is impossible: wrong.
Claim that evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics: wrong.
Claim that (paraphrasing) microevolution is impossible: wrong.
 
Str8UpKiller's point, referencing peantbutter and thus the resemblance of peanuts to the Cosmic Egg, was at once both subtile and germane. Extrapolation from that doctrine leads to the inevitable conclusion that it was, in fact, the peanut, and not a grain of sand, as some imagine, that Hermes Thricemagistus made reference to in his statement, &quot;As above so below&quot;
or as can now be revealed, &quot;In a peanut is the universe reflected.&quot;

And now for a 'sand'witch', peanutbutter, of course, with a cabbage juice chaser. 😀
 


<< Christianity is like the sun. I do not believe in the sun because I can see it, but rather because I can see everything else. >>


-C.S. Lewis



Think what you will. No one is going to get anywhere in these religion threads because we all come in trying to prove everyone wrong. Is there anything wrong with that? No. But if everyone is not willing to open their brain to the other side's ways of thinking, then this is all worthless.

If I were some college instructor who knows everything about one subject, then I'd be more familiar with how to disarm your statements. But guess what: I'm not. Yes, I don't know how to tell you that you're wrong about some things. If it comes down to science, you'll be able to prove anything. If it comes down to the Bible, you can make it seem to say anything you want it to. But when it comes down to real life, I know that He exists. I've seen evidences in my own life. If it takes you coming over here for me to show you (if you care that much) then, yes, I'll show you.

But that's not going to happen cuz people don't want to have something to believe in that they can't see for themselves --that they can't touch. And that's what's going to damn them. Not Christians. People here just care about being right instead of knowing what's behind the sherade. That's fine with me. I know where I stand with Him and that I'll be with Him --and that's what matters to me.
 


<< Ok... how about you? This is basically what I said before, but please PROVE that God doesn't exist. >>


There's more evidence that he doesn't exist then that he does exist. Contradictions in the bible, in the way the church system works, etc. While neither side can be proven 'beyond a reasonable doubt' at the time, there is more proof that the christian god doesn't exist.
 
Actually its more convoluted then that.. you can't prove that your version of god exists. There could be a god that doesn't give a %#@ about people at all,or enjoys suffering.. The christian god is only one of infinite possibilities..
 
raspewtin

Good name.




Anyway, alot of times the Bible references the &quot;day of the Lord.&quot;
Does that mean that God only is in control for one day? No.

I do believe that Genesis does not say that the trees were created after man. What messed up version are you reading?!

&quot;...He created the birds of the air and the fish of the sea&quot;
What's so contradictory about that??
Quote the passages where they are contradictory.
 
I believe in a God, just not the same one christians do. I believe I am my own god, I make my own decisions. Why go through life feeling guilty? Why let someone else tell me what I'm supposed to believe? Christians are stupid....They say that &quot;non christians&quot; go to hell....so you're telling me that eastern countries where millions of people don't practice christianity or know what it is, you're telling me that they all go to hell for just being born into the wrong culture. IT's BS.......

&quot;I went to god just to see..
And I was looking at me....
Saw heaven and hell were lies.....
When I'm god everyone dies!!!&quot;
 
God is nowhere but in people's minds. In all of humanity's effort, no one has seen God on Earth. Is that proof enough to those who wants proof that he doesn't exist?
 


<< In all of humanity's effort, no one has seen God on Earth. >>


I'm sorry but 1.8 billion people might disagree with you.
 
<... 1.8 billion people might disagree with you...>

1.8 billion anecdotal turtles holding up the Earth.
 
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