Today I finished changing out 33 lightbulbs for CFLs.

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,330
10,739
126
LEDs will replace them.
Oh wait they're loaded with arsenic! :eek:

Whatever happened to ROHS anyhow?
I'm noticing more common things with a new label warning the user that the product contains materials that can cause birth defects and cancer, etc. Wash hands after handling! D:

Thank you China!

It's good to reduce toxins, but I wouldn't get too excited over the labels. They usually only apply to California anyway, and I'm on the other side of the country :^D
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
106
I'm fairly picky about light. With an artist wife and part of my own job is to design lighting systems - the color temperature and quality of light in a space is something I notice immediately. Color temp and brightness seem to vary mfr to mfr - I don't like ANY of them. YMMV - if you like it, great!



Every Cotton Picking One of them that I installed starting about 4 years back, lasted less than an incandescent. I'm probably doing it wrong, but I don't know how. I think its because they exist in sealed fixtures along with incandescants. Probably wrong - but again think that I'm the least-informed consumer, how does that look to them?



Well this is a mixed bag. Incandescent bulbs get hot and stay that way. The fixtures in use today expect incandescent levels of heat so things are often designed with that in mind. The fire risk I speak of is that of a defective ballast. ***It happened to me***

While I cannot link to any real credible sources, I can tell you that it happened to me. Granted it was a *very* cheap walmart CFL that I had in the bathroom - this was when I was not schooled about them. (shouldn't put them in a bathroom, or outside unless rated for that duty - but I submit that a typical user would similarly be unaware. Very much like an anecdote I've heard, that the lifespan rating is only good if the CFL is installed - curlycue up, as the ballast takes in too much heat when installed curlycue down. ) The ballast smoked when I turned the bathroom light on, visible flame appeared, melting part of the ballast, dropping burning hot boiling and flame sputtering plastic and components onto the vanity.



http://www.wattworks.com/CFL Hazards.htm

A bit tinfoil hat - but there are some serious concerns here. Have you read what the EPA says you have to do when you break one? Ruby is right. When you break one, you may as well not eat fish for the rest of your life.

http://www.epa.gov/hg/spills/

http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Fire danger is real and present...

I also had one smoke and melt... this want the cheapo walmart one either. this was a good GE light from Lowes.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
I've been using these for 3 years now with no failures. Start out reasonably bright and get to full brightness in under a minute. Sold exclusively at home depot apparently.
160-678.jpg
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,353
1,862
126
I've replaced most of mine as well, though I have 3 halogens and 4 incandescent in recessed lighting fixtures on 2 different dimmer switches in my basement that I am not about to switch out as Dimmable CFLs are expensive and LED's are expensive...
 

wirednuts

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2007
7,121
4
0
home depot now carries a 4pk of ecosmart 60w equivalent bulbs for 97 cents. yes, 97 cents for the 4-pack. they seem too work well too. instant on, full brightness in seconds, and -20F startup rating.

i do agree, cfl's dont last very long (2 years is about good), but if theyre only a quarter a pop who cares. fuck the mercury thing, we get more metal from eating store bought fish.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Since this is bumped, I should share... my latest electric bill came in and was extended for a couple weeks as the electric company changed their billing system, hence the delay. For the month with AC running, typical would have been ~$270+. My bill was $222.
 

sourceninja

Diamond Member
Mar 8, 2005
8,805
65
91
I've tried to switch a few times, but flicker and funny color always made me switch back, plus besides our living room, most of our rooms are quick lights on, lights out approach and that seemed to burn though the CFL.

I actually have a incandescent light in my office because the overhead lighting gives me migraines (I know it's not the same as CFL).
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
I've tried to switch a few times, but flicker and funny color always made me switch back, plus besides our living room, most of our rooms are quick lights on, lights out approach and that seemed to burn though the CFL.

I actually have a incandescent light in my office because the overhead lighting gives me migraines (I know it's not the same as CFL).

Actually, CFL's are the exact same thing as overhead florescents. That's why CFL stands for "compact FLORESCENT light". Exactly the same technology, ionized gas causes phosphor coating the tube to fluoresce... just a lot smaller. The compact package includes the ballast, along with some other tech to make it turn on to full faster.

Granted, it's only been what - 5 months? Haven't lost a bulb yet, and they still power on just the same speed as before.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,590
86
91
www.bing.com
I've given up on CFL's, it seems like I ALWAYS have dead CFL's around the house that need replacing.

I'm just gonna wait until LED's come down in price. Now those will last forever.
 

Mark R

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,513
16
81
Personally, I find CFLs OK for general lighting - for garages, corridors, study, etc. At least with modern ones, they don't buzz, flicker or take too long to start up.

Where I want better lighting, kitchen, living room, etc. I generally use halogen. However, I've replaced some lamps with full-size fluorescent strips, in good quality commercial fittings. If you buy high-end T5 tubes, they have far better efficiency than CFLs, can be obtained with very good color rendering and in the color temperature of your choice. Fittings can also be obtained with push-button dimmable ballasts. The only problem with this is that high-end tubes need to be bought in bulk (usually 12 at a time) from commercial lighting suppliers, and the fittings are very expensive (but ebay can provide them pretty cheap).
 

bobdole369

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2004
4,504
2
0
Actually, CFL's are the exact same thing as overhead florescents. That's why CFL stands for "compact FLORESCENT light". Exactly the same technology, ionized gas causes phosphor coating the tube to fluoresce... just a lot smaller. The compact package includes the ballast, along with some other tech to make it turn on to full faster.

Granted, it's only been what - 5 months? Haven't lost a bulb yet, and they still power on just the same speed as before.

Excellent news! I on the other hand have not been so lucky. In fact my only remaining CFL died the other day after a 9 month stint in my dining room. I've lost roughly a half dozen within the past 2 years, all <1 yr in service. Granted they are all cheap walmart or target sourced bulbs. I've gone the lutron/incandescant route. I'm not rich enough to be able to afford Homeworks or anything, just the replacement wall boxes, 2 of them IR's with an interface to my mythtv installation, thus I can turn off the lights from the TV set :p.

Have only done bedroom and living room and dining room, savings are about the same as you - roughly 15% on the bill from last year, but temper that with that I also have installed a digital thermostat, so a number of variable unfortunately. I have 75% of full power set as full, which ought to save about 20% on those fixtures.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
I've given up on CFL's, it seems like I ALWAYS have dead CFL's around the house that need replacing.

I'm just gonna wait until LED's come down in price. Now those will last forever.
They will suffer the same problems CFLs have.
Cheap ballast/driver circuits that do not stand up to poor input power.
LED "bulbs" have the extra problem that they need to be designed to dissipate heat well.
I would only buy LED bulbs from a reputable manufacturer like Philips.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,590
86
91
www.bing.com
They will suffer the same problems CFLs have.
Cheap ballast/driver circuits that do not stand up to poor input power.
LED "bulbs" have the extra problem that they need to be designed to dissipate heat well.
I would only buy LED bulbs from a reputable manufacturer like Philips.

me thinks you are not thinking of LED's

LED's don't need ballast and give off very little heat
 

aceO07

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2000
4,491
0
76
me thinks you are not thinking of LED's

LED's don't need ballast and give off very little heat

I don't know about ballasts, but LEDs do give off a good amount of heat and do need to has a heat sink. We have a few LED bulbs in the office. These particular bulbs produce a focused beam and have 4 LEDs on them. Most of size is for the heat sink. Probably 2 years old.

The recent LEDs are much brighter but they still need a good heat sink. Especially since it'll driven harder than a flashlight and stay on longer, and usually have more than 1 LED per bulb.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
I don't know about ballasts, but LEDs do give off a good amount of heat and do need to has a heat sink. We have a few LED bulbs in the office. These particular bulbs produce a focused beam and have 4 LEDs on them. Most of size is for the heat sink. Probably 2 years old.

The recent LEDs are much brighter but they still need a good heat sink. Especially since it'll driven harder than a flashlight and stay on longer, and usually have more than 1 LED per bulb.

Dude... most "60w" LED bulbs only take 7w. They generate nearly no heat at all.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
me thinks you are not thinking of LED's
LED's don't need ballast and give off very little heat
No, I am thinking of LEDs.

I am greatly generalizing a high speed segment of the market, but high output LEDs are generally ~1W each.
1W of heat in a 4mm² area needs to be thermally managed to keep the LED junction temperature low.
LEDs degrade very quickly at high junction temperatures (high meaning outside their design limits).

LEDs require driver circuits because they run off of DC voltage and require a strict current limitation.
The LED "ballast" is known as a driver or driver circuit.
All LED "bulbs" have some sort of driver circuit built in.
Depending on the manufacturer, they can be robust or very cheaply built driver circuits that fry after a few surges.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,723
13,851
126
www.anyf.ca
If you get the right color temp (which is usually hit or miss as stores tend to only carry one type at any given time) CFLs are gerat. The pure white ones produce the best and brightest light. I always go with the 23w (100w equivalent) ones. Given I'm saving like 75% power may as well go all the way.

I have 6 in my crawlspace, 4 in the other crawlspace under the garage, 7 in the basement, and a couple upstairs. Most of upstairs is incad but it's for different reasons, such as the dining room being on a dimmer, and kitchen using track spot lights. Though I think they do make CFL spot light bulbs now.

So far in my 2-3 years in the house I've only had one CFL go and think it was just defective. It would randomly turn off and on and flicker. I decided to just throw it out. Oh, and I also had one break from something falling on it. I only noticed when I turned it on, it was a neat effect. I'm probably going to die from mercury poisoning in 10 years from now.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
me thinks you are not thinking of LED's

LED's don't need ballast and give off very little heat

which is why they require huge heatsinks?;)
it isn't that much heat but they are far more heat sensitive. aka heat = death
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Excellent news! I on the other hand have not been so lucky. In fact my only remaining CFL died the other day after a 9 month stint in my dining room. I've lost roughly a half dozen within the past 2 years, all <1 yr in service. Granted they are all cheap walmart or target sourced bulbs. I've gone the lutron/incandescant route. I'm not rich enough to be able to afford Homeworks or anything, just the replacement wall boxes, 2 of them IR's with an interface to my mythtv installation, thus I can turn off the lights from the TV set :p.

Have only done bedroom and living room and dining room, savings are about the same as you - roughly 15% on the bill from last year, but temper that with that I also have installed a digital thermostat, so a number of variable unfortunately. I have 75% of full power set as full, which ought to save about 20% on those fixtures.

bad batch or some really dirty power. i've had good luck with most any cheap bulb i've had, I mostly use those in the garage but the mix of bulbs continues to work for years. lights of america and other second tier brands. 75%? If you mean you have a dimmer, you can't use cfl with dimmer unless it explicitly supports it.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
which is why they require huge heatsinks?;)
it isn't that much heat but they are far more heat sensitive. aka heat = death
Yeah. Unfortunately, LEDs aren't terribly efficient light-producers either. They're so much better than incandescent simply because incandescent sucks so much as a light source. It's like paying $1000 for some top-notch hookers and blow, but all you get is a well-done photograph of the hooker and a bag of PopRocks.
Philips' "LED Lighting Explained" document cites US DOE data which says that white LEDs are only about 15-25&#37; efficient, compared to 8% for incandescent, and 21% for fluorescent, in terms of visible light generated versus energy input.
LEDs convert the waste into heat through internal resistance and internal reflections and subsequent absorption. (The materials that many LEDs are made of tend to have a very refractive index, so the light has a tough time leaving the die.
Incandescent generates heat through resistance as well, but a lot of it is lost as infrared radiation. (So the other solution would be to genetically modify ourselves so that our eyes could use this part of the spectrum. :D)

Incandescent doesn't care if the filament runs at a few thousand degrees.
LEDs don't like it when the die temperature exceeds 135&#176;C, and 85&#176;C or less is generally preferred, as higher temperatures result in faster output degredation.


</brain dump>



bad batch or some really dirty power. i've had good luck with most any cheap bulb i've had, I mostly use those in the garage but the mix of bulbs continues to work for years. lights of america and other second tier brands. 75%? If you mean you have a dimmer, you can't use cfl with dimmer unless it explicitly supports it.
This is one of my biggest worries about the adoption of LED lighting. The expectation is 50,000hrs or more. This includes the power supply. A cheap power supply is a way to save money on a fixture, which includes leaving out filtering and spike handling, as well as reduced efficiency. The Department of Energy is doing testing commercially-available lamps and fixtures. Some of them are indeed quite efficient, delivering good light output and low power consumption. Some of them are as bad as incandescent in terms of lumens/watt. Sure, you can make a cheap power supply out of a bridge rectifier, two capacitors, and a linear regulator - or in a pinch, a poly-film capacitor. You might also consume 50W in order to power a 3W load. But a consumer without a watt meter probably wouldn't notice, perhaps with the exception of a power supply that gets hot enough to boil water.:D

Cheap power supplies will almost invariably have a low power factor. Put it this way, if you have a power factor of 0.5, you're yelling and screaming for the power company to deliver 10 units of power to you. They rush out 10 units of power, ring the doorbell and wait, but then you have to be a dick and only take 5 of them, and slam the door. Repeat this 60x a second.

Where's the downside? The power company has to send that energy over power lines, which incur losses. So a bit of those 10 units gets converted to heat before it can ever get a chance to do anything useful. If your power factor was better, such as it is with a circuit that's entirely resistive, or at least acts like a resistor, then you might only be asking for 5.1 units of power. Then the power lines will only dissipate x% of those 5.1 units, instead of x% of 10.

But, this power factor correction doesn't directly benefit a consumer. In theory, it means that the power company wastes less power and capacity, and doesn't need so much filtering to keep the line voltage all sparkly clean. Then, they can allegedly pass on the savings to.....someone.



On the subject of CFLs: I'm still running Litetronics Neolite CFLs here. They have a much better survival rate than generic stuff from Walmart/HomeDepot/Whatever. The one in my bathroom has to be more than 2 years old, and it's probably power-cycled at least 5x a day. (I do have incandescents over the sink though, and will use them if I just need to walk in to quickly retrieve something from the closet.)
They are available in the 2700K color temperature, which makes them look very much like regular incandescent bulbs. ~80 CRI, too.
 
Last edited:

TheNinja

Lifer
Jan 22, 2003
12,207
1
0
Can I ask why you did it? I don't think it's cost effective to replace and throw away existing bulbs. Maybe replace them all with CFL as they burn out. But any savings you got on CFL energy costs would be lost from throwing away the money spent on your previous bulbs imo. If you are trying to be more green to save the earth's energy, then I can understand.

Ok, just say your bill. You claim around $50 savings. Pretty good I'd say.
 
Last edited:

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,228
136
We went full CFL throughout the house a year or so ago. After constantly replacing them every few months (we're very rural and our power isn't quite as clean as urban areas, which is why all our electronics are on UPS's), we went back to plain old incandescents after we scored three boxes of new bulbs for $5 (two boxes of 75W and one of 95W.....24 per box.)