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Today Britain votes on remaining part of the EU

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I think the Euro is going to continue getting screwed for as long as the EU doesn't require a country's accounts to be signed off for entry into the EU or on any semi-regular basis. It basically means that any countries being approved for EU citizenship (is that the right word?) are a total financial unknown quantity and stand a reasonable chance of a) needing EU bailouts and b) rocking the EU financial boat.

I voted remain because IMO it's straight-up lunacy to take a country that is on a reasonable economic footing and then play musical chairs with its income streams.

I think the brexit arguments regarding immigration are disingenuous because they push it as a "we'll have control over our borders then" with a heavy implication that immigration figures will come way down as a result, when actually a) immigration is a good thing for a healthy economy and b) brexit has no actual plan for immigration should the referendum go their way.

I do think that EU immigration needs to be reconsidered because I think it's based on the assumption that inter-EU immigration will take care of itself because people will go where the jobs are in a natural supply-demand kind of way, and while I think to some extent that is true, it's not true insofar as a government should be ensuring that a country's population suits that of employment demand, and a few years of overlap as demand goes up and down plays hell with peoples' lives and probably the economy too. Pretty much every country worldwide has border controls and strict immigration controls, presumably for good reasons, yet little controls inter-EU? It's a nice ideal but it doesn't make sense in the long run IMO. Also, EU hypocrisy is showing itself with regard to Syrian refugees and asking Turkey whether it would mind awfully taking the brunt of them, presumably in exchange for EU citizenship after the refugee crisis has been resolved.

The financial arguments for brexit are also pretty disingenuous, a major stat has been debunked literally everywhere yet the brexit camp held on to it right up to the final day because they would prefer anyone to believe bullshit and vote for them rather than the truth.

Admittedly neither side has the moral high ground with regard to bullshit, but IMO it's the side that advocates change is the one that needs to make its case, truthfully obviously. Wrt bullshit, I wonder whether a lot of people will vote Brexit as a fuck-you to David Cameron as he has been laying the bullshit rather liberally during the course of his premiership. I personally think that Cameron should resign for the stupid fucking idea of having a referendum on a topic like this in the first place, as uninformed feelings and bullshit rhetoric have absolutely no place in a decision that could shape this country for decades to come. The only reason that I can think of that he did it was to placate the euro-sceptics in his own party. His campaign for supporting brexit has also been farcical.

Fanatical Meat said:
Hey English Gentlemen could you please be kind enough to give updates as the results come in.
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Friday morning UK time is when the result is expected to be known.
 
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It is a bit silly because unemployment is 5%, they can't get the english nationals to do the shitty jobs (might as well collect the social security check) the immigration is almost 50%/50% EU/non-EU (which means they can already stop half the immigration that mostly account for the people with different core values, but they choose not to).

Also Scotland will push for another independence referendum should the UK vote to leave.


About Greece and the Euro.
I always find fun that "omg you cutting my wages by 20%, kill kill" but "you devaluing my wages in 20%, meh who cares *whistle*".
It is exactly the same thing, except that if you devalue the coin you also making any savings worth less.
 
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GaiaHunter said:
It is a bit silly because unemployment is 5%, they can't get the english nationals to do the shitty jobs (might as well collect the social security check) the immigration is almost 50%/50% EU/non-EU (which means they can already stop half the immigration that mostly account for the people with different core values, but they choose not to).

Also Scotland will push for another independence referendum should the UK vote to leave.


About Greece and the Euro.
I always find fun that "omg you cutting my wages by 20%, kill kill" but "you devaluing my wages in 20%, meh who cares *whistle*".
It is exactly the same thing, except that if you devalue the coin you also making any savings worth less.
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I thought they were going to anyway?
 
dainthomas said:
I thought they were going to anyway?
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This vote has special interest for me and my family. MY father is Scottish and a British Citizen but he cannot vote because he has not lived in England for over 50 years. I understand that fact but it would be interesting if Britain leaves and Scotland becomes and EU member.

I guess my father could have two passports and still be an EU member? WTF?? Weird indeed.
 
The main boiling point appears to be immigration. Basically they have minimal control over their borders as anyone from within the EU can enter the country and work. That includes EU citizens from countries with tanking economies. Personally I feel the EU needs to loosen its stranglehold on migration and allow individual members more control over their immigration policies.
 
StinkyPinky said:
The main boiling point appears to be immigration. Basically they have minimal control over their borders as anyone from within the EU can enter the country and work. That includes EU citizens from countries with tanking economies. Personally I feel the EU needs to loosen its stranglehold on migration and allow individual members more control over their immigration policies.
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Good points. I personally feel that Britain has more to loose if they leave the EU. Trust me, the rest of Europe can penalize them in many ways to spite them.
 
mikeymikec said:
I think the Euro is going to continue getting screwed for as long as the EU doesn't require a country's accounts to be signed off for entry into the EU or on any semi-regular basis. It basically means that any countries being approved for EU citizenship (is that the right word?) are a total financial unknown quantity and stand a reasonable chance of a) needing EU bailouts and b) rocking the EU financial boat.
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That's not true. It's just that bankers found creative ways to call debt something else-

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-hide-debts-when-it-joined-euro-10381926.html
 
This is SOO fricking stupid, because the UK already has so many exceptions EVEN as a member of the EU. They don't even use the Euro. I really hope they remain.

In my opinion, national pride/nationalism, etc. are outdated concepts. No, I am NOT talking about needing to give up a nation's unique identity. But if there are problems with/in the EU, solutions must be worked out, RATHER than leaving the EU like a pissed-off kid.
 
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flexy said:
This is SOO fricking stupid, because the UK already has so many exceptions EVEN as a member of the EU. They don't even use the Euro. I really hope they remain.

In my opinion, national pride/nationalism, etc. are outdated concepts. No, I am NOT talking about needing to give up a nation's unique identity. But if there are problems with/in the EU, solutions must be worked out, RATHER than leaving the EU like a pissed-off kid.
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Good point as well.
 
fskimospy said:
The UK can print as many or as few pounds as their situation requires and the Bank of England can move interest rates in conjunction with the UK's needs while the ECB has to do it for the whole Euro area (despite dramatically different needs between regions)
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but, they can't. they could, but then the trust in the coinage would drop. you can't just pancho villa your pound, print a ton of it and expect it to hold its value.

when i was 17 (i am now 43) i went to london for a week. there was a pub at the corner of tottenham ct road and oxford street, the flying horse. a pint of guinness was £1.85.

that pub is still there.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5...00&yaw=266.99048&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
today, a pint of guinnes is £3.40

back home, in the same period, a can of coke was 400 lire, or 20c today; today it costs about 1.5E, seven times as much.
a pack of camels was two pounds fifty, which was enough to buy three packs of the same back home.

England was legendary for how expensive it was; and yet, they still got massive trade from all pre-euro countries, due to their political importance. We traded with them despite the cost of buying the pound, because the UK was seen as a postwar leader.

Today, euro countries still buy from the UK, and that is not a surprise, because the pound is costing less and less; at one point the Zloty went from 7:1 to 4:1. We went from 1:1.5 euro to 1:1.1, and sure the markets fluctuate, but it's because the currency becomes more used in trade when it drops in price.

This has an internal effect; brits cannot afford to go abroad on UK wages anymore, when once they dominated the continent with their awesome exchange rate (at one point, 3200 lira per pound, or 1.6E equivalent). Their economy is based on having a strong, expensive coin, not a popular and cheap currency with much external movement. It is, if you will, "their money".

And that is also why they suffer more when capital migrates - they have less of it. Just five years of wages moving to the continent have had a devastating effect on the economy; you go back to the 90s, people were throwing £20 notes around like it was nothing, today that same note is a £5.

As a country, they managed to earn more because trading with them had an additional perceived value due to their political importance - which they no longer have.

If the pound had kept its perceived value, i would be earning nearly £2k/ month, and i would not have a problem paying £800/mo for a room in london. Instead, i'm earning barely 1k and the price of that room is still near 800.

1990 values would be, £160~180 earned a week, cost of housing £60/w.

It's not the state of the economy as a whole, but that portion which the public perceives, which matters to the voters. They don't care that Tesco is posting more and more revenue, if the public never sees any of it.
 
Some of the results are drifting in, and man, it don't look good. 51% on leave currently. I find this entire thing crazy.
 
I really liked England when I visited there. I don't see how this changes anything at all when I visit again.
 
MongGrel said:
I all ready had a live stream on #36, but you don't read posts anyway other than just to aim, fire, ready I guess.

It is running pretty tight.
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I'm living rent free in your head. I haven't read the thread and I thought I'd be nice and post a link to a live feed. Sorry I missed yours and it offended you so bad.
 
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