To Wait on Skylake or Not to Wait

[pandemonium]

Scenario: I'm itching to build a near-top tier [primarily] gaming rig that's long overdue; watercooled, overclocked, etcetera. I also do the occasional video processing. Also take note that I build for longevity, not purely for the immediate. I plan on making this system last for 4+ years, save for upgrading the GPUs if necessary.

Logic: Skylake may very well have benefits with PCIe-4, but I'm still convinced just to get the 5820k now due to increasing multi-threading development coming in games. I'm leaning towards allowing to run dual GPUs - no more than dual - so the 5820k is sufficient in my eyes and no need to go with a 5930k. Hexacore Skylake processors are a long ways off IIRC and I've been holding off long enough. >.<

I'm torn between waiting on Skylake or getting a 5820k now.

Thoughts?

 

[richierich1212]

Wait until Skylake is released then pick up used 5820K system haha.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Tough call. I think either would be a great choice. If you decide to go 5820k, at least DDR4 should become mainstream soon. My advice would be to wait and see what skylake brings and then decide. What are you running now?

Skylake is supposed to be out in August, but I dont think anyone really knows when good availability will happen, and there is always the chance of bugs in the early systems. This is why it is too bad that Intel doesnt make a mainstream hex core on the most up to date architecture. The price in hexcore Haswell is pretty decent, but you are forced to use an "outdated" architecture, although with the slow rate of improvements, you dont really lose that much performance.

 

[Yuriman]

I have a suspicion that watercooling Skylake will be near pointless. It doesn't do all that much for Haswell as-is.

 

[nenforcer]

I would absolutely wait - it's too close to release with mass availability expected in September. Besides - I expect DDR4 memory prices to come down quite a bit once Skylake makes it mainstream.

 

[pandemonium]

Wait until Skylake is released then pick up used 5820K system haha.

Fair enough. I prefer buying new. I'm silly like that.

Tough call. I think either would be a great choice. If you decide to go 5820k, at least DDR4 should become mainstream soon. My advice would be to wait and see what skylake brings and then decide. What are you running now?

Skylake is supposed to be out in August, but I dont think anyone really knows when good availability will happen, and there is always the chance of bugs in the early systems. This is why it is too bad that Intel doesnt make a mainstream hex core on the most up to date architecture. The price in hexcore Haswell is pretty decent, but you are forced to use an "outdated" architecture, although with the slow rate of improvements, you dont really lose that much performance.

Yeah, I plan on doing 32GB of 2666mhz DDR4 to start (nothing extreme on the overclocking).

I'm running a very old Q9400, lol.

The problem I have with waiting on a hexacore Skylake is that's likely another 6 months+ before I can get my system updated. I have too many games I've been holding off playing for the lack of power in this old girl.

I have a suspicion that watercooling Skylake will be near pointless. It doesn't do all that much for Haswell as-is.

It's more for my interest in it since that'll be my long awaited entrance into watercooling. AFAIK, it's always better to have your components run cooler than not.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, a Sandy Bridge 3960X is still hanging right with a Haswell 5820K.

Had you been deciding, waiting for the Haswell 6 core equivalent wouldn't have gained you much performance.

 

[pandemonium]

That seems to be the answer I was looking for. I wasn't sure if there was something I was missing. Thanks!

 

[Geforce man]

I'm waiting, and if 4.6Ghz+ Isn't a guarantee on Aircooling, I'll keep what I have for another generation .

I'm curious as to whether or not there will be 4xddr3l boards, or not. DDR4 wont gain me anything, so I don't need to jump to that unless I'm forced to!

 

[el etro]

Get a 5820k, is enough.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Comparing between quadcores and hexcores doesnt make sense.

And if you mean Skylake-E, its far far away.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

The problem is that you will have to wait for Skylake release and prices to stabilize, DDR4 to come down etc. However you can assume that socket 1151 will last for a while and offer more upgrade paths in the future. And you get a newer platform with skylake anyway, Z100 etc.

So unless you are severely CPU limited and unable to do what you want right now, I would wait for sure and decide in the last months of 2015.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

That seems to be the answer I was looking for. I wasn't sure if there was something I was missing. Thanks!

I bet you will NOT like what I have to say and/or will just buy something else, anyway.

Potentially any day now, Skylake information may leak out, but maybe longer, the new 14 Nm, Skylake cpus, which for the first time, in a very long time, has both the tick AND the tock, built into it. I.e. New (hopefully, faster/better Architecture) AND 14 Nm size reductions (along with further improvements, i.e. the Haswell to Broadwell ones, as well).

Or we have to wait until the Skylake chips are released, which may not be that long now, e.g. August 2015.

Once the information leaks out about Skylake and/or it is released, we can make informed/educated decisions, as to what is the best stuff to buy.

Once Skylake is out, it will be a very, very long time, before we see a new chip, with both the tick and the tock, inside it.

I.e. IceLake (or whatever it is called). Rumors seem to suggest that it will be incredibly delayed or even cancelled, due to massively increasing costs, huge technical development difficulties, big reduction in potential revenues (much fewer desktop sales) and ever decreasing improvements, generation to generation.

On the other hand, the existing 6 core haswell (socket 2011), does have a fair degree of speed, at a good price point.

Maybe, the Skylake WILL be significantly faster than haswell. Depending on whose rumors you believe.

I think we are so relatively close to finding out, one way or the other, that waiting would be the best option. Maybe you will only have to wait 2 or 3 weeks, or so, now. I don't know ?

Some rumors, seem to hint at some nice surprises, when Skylake comes out. But if that is the case, I am very impressed with how Intel have kept it secret.

With most previous Intel releases, we usually have far more information, at this point in time. Intel seem to have gone very quiet. Which seemed to correspond with the new Intel boss, requesting much greater secrecy.

Also, the Skylake refresh (Kaby lake), might be worth waiting for, if it is significantly better. E.g. When are we getting AVX512 for the consumer cpus, and will it make games any faster ?

Wiki is saying, you would have to wait about 28/29 days.

Skylake's release to market is rumoured to be taking place at the Gamescom on 5 August 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylake_(microarchitecture)

I would suggest, waiting for up to 28/29 days. You will still be able to buy Haswells, then, if you think that is your best solution.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I would absolutely wait - it's too close to release with mass availability expected in September. Besides - I expect DDR4 memory prices to come down quite a bit once Skylake makes it mainstream.

This.

OP, there is literally no reason to buy right now unless your system dies and you need a replacement now. I know you might currently be hamstrung by your Q9400, but we're less than a month from release IIRC and reviews should start showing up in early August as well. On the other hand, if you're REALLY set on a hexcore CPU, go ahead and buy now as Skylake-E is still pretty far out.

For my part, I'm running the machine in my sig as my main system (originally built in 2011) and while I was planning on upgrading to Skylake, my suspicion is that it won't be worth it. Sure, in certain tasks, Skylake will smoke my 2600K but I'd wager in everyday use and even gaming, the improvements might be in the 30% range and with my overclock (we know nothing of Skylake's OC ability right now), that gap might be smaller. With Cannonlake being delayed and Skylake-E likely not hitting until late 2016 or early 2017, I think I'll probably just upgrade my GPU again around the turn of the year and hold out even longer.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

"OP"
I would say hop all over that 5820K now and say screw waiting for skylake.6 cores will do better now even more so then everyone is thinking vs a 4 core skylake. Thats what I did but with x79 coming from a AMD Fm2+ quadcore 7850K and couldn't be happier. I bought a 4820K for now and almost saved enough already to upgrade to a E5-2690 v2 12core 24thread cpu in the fall.I would have gone x99 now but I had 32GB or DDR3 already so it made sense for me.But anyways I would upgrade now and dont look back you wont be sorry you did.Besides the price is going to be about the same for both CPU's wise around $350-ish.

 

[Arachnotronic]

5820k!

 

[Sweepr]

I'd probably wait. Skylake might bring the usual tock IPC improvement we've had in the past generations but if it overclocks well (let's say close to the 5GHz mark without fancy cooling) it should dominate per core performance metrics and beat 6-core Haswell-E in most gaming benchies. If it doesn't at least DDR4 prices should drop a bit, on top of new kits for your Haswell-E build.

That's coming from a Core i7 5820K owner.

 

[scannall]

I'd wait. Gaming is still better on a quad, since they clock higher and can overclock higher. Skylake will have better IPC. If gaming is your primary purpose, with longevity your goal then a 5820k makes little sense.

 

[RaistlinZ]

Only problem is I don't think a top end Skylake 4c/8t chip (6700K) will be any cheaper than a 5820K. If prices are similar, you'd be better off with more cores of the 5820K.

 

[ShintaiDK]

HKEPC posted prices. They are the same as current LGA1150 Haswells. So yes, 6700K will be cheaper than 5820K.

 

[zir_blazer]

The problem is that you will have to wait for Skylake release and prices to stabilize, DDR4 to come down etc. However you can assume that socket 1151 will last for a while and offer more upgrade paths in the future. And you get a newer platform with skylake anyway, Z100 etc.

Upgrade path? Tell that to any early adopter of Haswell, 2 years ago, and see what happened with Broadwell (Beginning the day that Intel announced that old 8-Series Chipsets would not support it). They will be rolling on the floor laughning since the initial launch platform has nowhere to go, even today. Only useful upgrade would have been going from a low end Celeron/Pentium to a Core i5/i7.
Anyone that wants to purchase Skylake not for what it is, but because they think it will be possible to upgrade it in the future, may as well play Russian Roullette with all the chambers loaded. Since Intel totally screwed up the "upgrade path" in LGA 1150, you must have some real faith to trust them, specially considering Kaby Lake announcement, which signals serious node issues. The world is literarily crumbling, so forget about solid upgrade paths on Intel platforms.

 

[MrTeal]

Upgrade path? Tell that to any early adopter of Haswell, 2 years ago, and see what happened with Broadwell (Beginning the day that Intel announced that old 8-Series Chipsets would not support it). They will be rolling on the floor laughning since the initial launch platform has nowhere to go, even today. Only useful upgrade would have been going from a low end Celeron/Pentium to a Core i5/i7.
Anyone that wants to purchase Skylake not for what it is, but because they think it will be possible to upgrade it in the future, may as well play Russian Roullette with all the chambers loaded. Since Intel totally screwed up the "upgrade path" in LGA 1150, you must have some real faith to trust them, specially considering Kaby Lake announcement, which signals serious node issues. The world is literarily crumbling, so forget about solid upgrade paths on Intel platforms.

Unless you are starting out on a budget processor, there really wouldn't have been much of an upgrade path anyway and their likely won't be one in the future. With sockets only lasting a single tick-tock cycle, there's not going to be enough performance improvement between the socket introduction and the node shrink next year to justify a CPU upgrade for the majority of enthusiasts. That was true of Sandy to Ivy, Haswell to more Haswell, and it'll probably be true of Skylake to Cannonlake too. If you buy a Z170 and 6600k or 6700k, you'd probably move to HEDT or the Cannonlake successor before buying a 7xxxK upgrade.

Besides, the benefits of the new platform are often more appealing than the raw increase in CPU power with most new Intel releases.

 

[zir_blazer]

Haswell had it worse that Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. First generation Haswell Motherboards can't support Broadwell (Technically they should, that seems artificially limited), so they didn't even have available a mere shrink upgrade, which is what Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge was. Even if the raw performance is barely increased, a shrink is extremely good in other metrics, like power consumption, and less noise as a byproduct. Broadwell is MUCH better than Haswell on performance per Watt, but you're limited to only the top two models, at prices more expensive than usual. Even then, Haswell early adopters can't upgrade to them, which is something that you could with Ivy Bridge. Basically, that's ZERO upgrade path, when we were used to at least one shrink.

 

[nenforcer]

Haswell had it worse that Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. First generation Haswell Motherboards can't support Broadwell (Technically they should, that seems artificially limited), so they didn't even have available a mere shrink upgrade, which is what Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge was.

Yeah I got a couple of MSI Z87-GD65 Gaming motherboards on sale at Fry's Electronics for about $30 each after rebate last Fall with the hope that they would be compatible with Socket 1150 Broadwell.

From what I've read the Z87 and Z97 chipset motherboards are pin / chip identical with the only difference being that Broadwell has some differences in the ultra lower power state modes (C6 / C7)?. I think SATA Express was the only feature added to Z97 boards.

The Z87-GD65 Gaming has a dual BIOS mode so I'm tempting to flash one of them with the Z97-GD65 Gaming Broadwell BIOS and see if it can't also take the chips which I suspect it will.

 

[stockwiz]

If I didn't already have an overclocked 2600K personally I'd go for the hex core at this point. I plan on waiting for a hex core in a 10 nm form factor before I upgrade, just because I have no constraints with my current hardware.

There doesn't appear to be any hex cores scheduled for release in the immediate future....