To those who are Catholic and think masturbation is wrong...

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: hdeck
1 Corinthians 6:18 (NIV) "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

Which doesn't mention masturbation. Having been a Christian all my life and read extensively, I don't believe the Bible ever mentions masturbation. The oft-quoted passage about spilling seed refers to a man cheating the woman out of children, essentially, and has nothing to do with masturbation.

I actually think the only time you see any verses with connection to masturbation are the Old Testament rules about purity. They specifically talk about how a man who's had an emission is impure until he goes through purification rites, and then they go on to talk about how a man who's had an emission with his wife is impure til he goes through the same rites. They very specifically allow for emissions that happen in a non-procreation form. Now whether that's intended to refer to masturbation or nocturnal emissions, I don't know, but it's as close as the Bible comes to talking about it.

So, that's a "Yes, I do."?

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: OverVolt
According the church, not bible, birth control is as bad a sin as masturbation, because of the same reasons. They do allow "Natural Family Planning" which is just doing 'it' when she is least fertile during the cycle. There a book written about the method, by a doctor with 12 children.

A LOT of common misconceptions in Christianity were born in the "church"(read: catholicism).

 

[Greyd]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
I think you read the bible too much and concentrate too much of your thoughts on the meanings allegedly contained within it's covers.

I think you need to learn to think for yourself and decide what is wrong an right.

It's not that difficult, really.

No book can tell you what is right or wrong. Books were written by men, just like you and I.

If you believe that book is "law", why not believe me when I say "Jesus wants you to send me $50?" Just like Billy Grahm's been doing for decades.

You can believe what you want about the Bible and Christianity....but your knowledge of who Billy Graham is, is seriously lacking.

 

[Neurorelay]

Originally posted by: FleshLight
On a side note:

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddists,
There are Hindus and Mormons and then
There are those that follow Mohammad, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six footer,
You don't have to have a great brain,
You don't have to have any clothes on,
You're a Catholic the moment Dad came, because

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs,
On the dusty ground,
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Hindu, Taoist, Morman,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is useful,
Every sperm is fine,
God needs everybody's,
Mine, and mine, and mine.

Let the pagans spill theirs,
O'er mountain, hill and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is good,
Every sperm is needed,
In your neighborhood.

Every sperm is sacred,
Every sperm is great,
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

For those that don't get the reference, it's Monty Python "Meaning of Life." Nice one.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: OverVolt
According the church, not bible, birth control is as bad a sin as masturbation, because of the same reasons. They do allow "Natural Family Planning" which is just doing 'it' when she is least fertile during the cycle. There a book written about the method, by a doctor with 12 children.

A LOT of common misconceptions in Christianity were born in the "church"(read: catholicism).

A lot of common misconceptions about the Church were born from Protestantism.

<-- former Protestant

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: OverVolt
According the church, not bible, birth control is as bad a sin as masturbation, because of the same reasons. They do allow "Natural Family Planning" which is just doing 'it' when she is least fertile during the cycle. There a book written about the method, by a doctor with 12 children.

A LOT of common misconceptions in Christianity were born in the "church"(read: catholicism).

A lot of common misconceptions about the Church were born from Protestantism.

<-- former Protestant

There were no protestants before the misconceptions started. There were christians before catholics though.

 

[gabemcg]

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....Oh, what were you guys saying?

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: HotChic

Originally posted by: hdeck
1 Corinthians 6:18 (NIV) "Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body."

Which doesn't mention masturbation. Having been a Christian all my life and read extensively, I don't believe the Bible ever mentions masturbation. The oft-quoted passage about spilling seed refers to a man cheating the woman out of children, essentially, and has nothing to do with masturbation.

I actually think the only time you see any verses with connection to masturbation are the Old Testament rules about purity. They specifically talk about how a man who's had an emission is impure until he goes through purification rites, and then they go on to talk about how a man who's had an emission with his wife is impure til he goes through the same rites. They very specifically allow for emissions that happen in a non-procreation form. Now whether that's intended to refer to masturbation or nocturnal emissions, I don't know, but it's as close as the Bible comes to talking about it.

HotChic,

what do you think about my ideas in the first post?

I agree that the bible does not mention masturbation, but the Catechism of the Catholic church does. I tend to think that it is only saying it is wrong if it is done for your own pleasure, but seems to say that if done with your partner and with the intentions of enhancing the relationship for the both of you it would be alright.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: CadetLee

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: OverVolt
According the church, not bible, birth control is as bad a sin as masturbation, because of the same reasons. They do allow "Natural Family Planning" which is just doing 'it' when she is least fertile during the cycle. There a book written about the method, by a doctor with 12 children.

A LOT of common misconceptions in Christianity were born in the "church"(read: catholicism).

A lot of common misconceptions about the Church were born from Protestantism.

<-- former Protestant

There were no protestants before the misconceptions started. There were christians before catholics though.

Catholisism was the very first christian church. Jesus appointed Peter as the first pope. Some didn't agree with everything and they branched off (IIRC, it was the Lutheran church that was the first to split because they didn't agree because the king wanted to have multiple wives and Catholicism rejected this idea).

 

[Linux23]

I guess 99% of ATOT'ers are going to hell.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Catholisism was the very first christian church. Jesus appointed Peter as the first pope. Some didn't agree with everything and they branched off (IIRC, it was the Lutheran church that was the first to split because they didn't agree because the king wanted to have multiple wives and Catholicism rejected this idea).

That is completely wrong. Jesus did not ever call Peter the pope and the pope is a blaspheme if anything. The entire concept of the pope is against so many verses in the bible I often question if ANY catholics read the bible. It is, after all, the least read best seller of all time.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Stefan
I know that some think that masturbation is wrong so I decided to do a little research of my own.

There is no mention of masturbation in the bible, but it is mentioned in the Catechism of the Catholic church.

I've been told that it's wrong because you are not supposed to pleasure yourself (which is indicated above).

I read this as saying that if you do it on your own, for your own pleasure it's wrong, but if you do it with a parter for the pleasure, enhancement and unity of the both of you, it's fine.

What do you think?

Catholics don't only believe in the Bible. Manner of living is dictated by ethics rather than a literal interpretation of text. Sexuality has a dual nature (unitive and procreative), so any act that is contrary to one or both of these purposes is inherently unethical. Thus, your statement later that "The catholic church recognizes sex as being for both procreation and for pleasure within marriage. A "seed" is not wasted unless one of you is trying to get pregant and the other is trying to prevent a pregnancy. " is actually incorrect. Any sex act, to be ethical, must be both unitive and procreative, not just one or the other.

Originally posted by: OverVolt
According the church, not bible, birth control is as bad a sin as masturbation, because of the same reasons. They do allow "Natural Family Planning" which is just doing 'it' when she is least fertile during the cycle. There a book written about the method, by a doctor with 12 children.

Same as above. Sex with birth control is like going on an all-sugar diet: eating is meant for both nourishment and pleasure, yet you'd just be getting pleasure (mmmmmm sugar). Pretty basic ethical considerations dictate that if you separate an action from one or more of its intended purposes or outcomes then the behavior is improper.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Stefan
Catholisism was the very first christian church. Jesus appointed Peter as the first pope. Some didn't agree with everything and they branched off (IIRC, it was the Lutheran church that was the first to split because they didn't agree because the king wanted to have multiple wives and Catholicism rejected this idea).

That is completely wrong. Jesus did not ever call Peter the pope and the pope is a blaspheme if anything. The entire concept of the pope is against so many verses in the bible I often question if ANY catholics read the bible. It is, after all, the least read best seller of all time.

I don't know the bible in and out so I can't comment on your first thought (I'd like to read about it though)... the 2nd part (in bold) is great though

 

[DangerAardvark]

Someone needs to do their Monty Python homework...

 

[xirtam]

Dr. James Dobson, head of the religious right organization, Focus on the Family, in his book, "Preparing for Adolescence," discusses masturbation, and he doesn't consider it a sin. There's definitely a difference of opinion on the issue though. I can't say I've ever heard a sermon given on masturbation. That would be kind of weird.

As far as I can tell, masturbation makes you gay though, because it's a sexual act involving only one gender, so you can just lump it in with all the verses that talk about homosexuality. (That's stretching it, but it's kind of interesting to consider it from another perspective.)

The other comment was about how if masturbation were a sin, we'd all be going to hell. Were it not for grace and mercy (the whole point of Christianity,) this would be true, however, it would have nothing to do with masturbation.

Oh, and I don't see what this has to do with Catholicism either.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Catholics don't only believe in the Bible. Manner of living is dictated by ethics rather than a literal interpretation of text. Sexuality has a dual nature (unitive and procreative), so any act that is contrary to one or both of these purposes is inherently unethical. Thus, your statement later that "The catholic church recognizes sex as being for both procreation and for pleasure within marriage. A "seed" is not wasted unless one of you is trying to get pregant and the other is trying to prevent a pregnancy. " is actually incorrect. Any sex act, to be ethical, must be both unitive and procreative, not just one or the other.

Hmm... I'll talk to my girlfriend (she's catholic) or maybe talk to one of the priests at her church. That is a distinction that I haven't heard before.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: malak

Originally posted by: Stefan
Catholisism was the very first christian church. Jesus appointed Peter as the first pope. Some didn't agree with everything and they branched off (IIRC, it was the Lutheran church that was the first to split because they didn't agree because the king wanted to have multiple wives and Catholicism rejected this idea).

That is completely wrong. Jesus did not ever call Peter the pope and the pope is a blaspheme if anything. The entire concept of the pope is against so many verses in the bible I often question if ANY catholics read the bible. It is, after all, the least read best seller of all time.

I don't know the bible in and out so I can't comment on your first thought (I'd like to read about it though)... the 2nd part (in bold) is great though

Got the quote a few years back. It's very true. I could write an entire book on the many misconceptions of Christianity that Christians believe today. 99% of them couldn't tell you what an angel is.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: xirtam
Dr. James Dobson, head of the religious right organization, Focus on the Family, in his book, "Preparing for Adolescence," discusses masturbation, and he doesn't consider it a sin. There's definitely a difference of opinion on the issue though. I can't say I've ever heard a sermon given on masturbation. That would be kind of weird.

My pastor did. But he does shock sermons all the time. It's great. Church needs to wake up. If you can't preach it, how will anyone learn?

 

[illustri]

is it still wrong if you store your semen in tupperware instead of spilling it?

/don't want to be right

 

[Kniteman77]

*Hangs sign over door*

Welcome to alt.religion Local Anandtech 101

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: xirtam
Dr. James Dobson, head of the religious right organization, Focus on the Family, in his book, "Preparing for Adolescence," discusses masturbation, and he doesn't consider it a sin. There's definitely a difference of opinion on the issue though. I can't say I've ever heard a sermon given on masturbation. That would be kind of weird.

As far as I can tell, masturbation makes you gay though, because it's a sexual act involving only one gender, so you can just lump it in with all the verses that talk about homosexuality. (That's stretching it, but it's kind of interesting to consider it from another perspective.)

The other comment was about how if masturbation were a sin, we'd all be going to hell. Were it not for grace and mercy (the whole point of Christianity,) this would be true, however, it would have nothing to do with masturbation.

Oh, and I don't see what this has to do with Catholicism either.

I haven't researched what the views on other christian religions, but I know that the Bible doesn't mention masturbation, and I also know that the Catholic church does mention it in it's Catechism.

I'm strictly looking at this from the viewpoint of Catholicism. They mention (from my interrpretation) that if masturbation is done by yourself for your own pleasure then it is a sin, but if it is done within the context that it is for enhancing the relationship for you and your partner then it is acceptable, and not a sin.

I'm trying to find out if others interrpret it like I do, or if I'm just using a lawyers tactic of picking at the wording when it's the message that "masturbation is wrong" is all their trying to say.

 

[xirtam]

What if you are your own parnter?

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: xirtam
What if you are your own parnter?

lol

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: malak
Got the quote a few years back. It's very true. I could write an entire book on the many misconceptions of Christianity that Christians believe today. 99% of them couldn't tell you what an angel is.

I think there are a lot of problems today for the simple reason that people do not question or try to verify what they hear from friends, relatives, parents, preists, teachers, etc... People are lazy.

 

[MrCodeDude]

You know what I think? I think P&N