To those of you who say Bush won the debate

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: yankeesfan
bush won because kerry did not convince the undecided voters to vote for him. Therefore, bush won.

How can you say that when the three major television networks poll's showed that more than 3/4's of the undecided voter leaned towrds Kerry at the end of this debate.?

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: element
I wrote this in the other thread but no one there seems to want to take notice, so since you asked for Bush supporter's I'll post it here:

Bush clearly won.

Listen, Kerry says we need to build international alliances on the war on terror. Then he goes on to say he's for bi-lateral talks on North Korea instead of the president's position of multi-national talks on North Korea including China.

Kerry's flip flopping isn't going to win this war and bring our troops home.

i did notice that big time and was wondering how he could say that.. then i figured it out. he just wants to oppose the president on anything and everything..

 

[lordtyranus]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: yankeesfan
bush won because kerry did not convince the undecided voters to vote for him. Therefore, bush won.

How can you say that when the three major television networks poll's showed that more than 3/4's of the undecided voter leaned towrds Kerry at the end of this debate.?

Just because they think he won the debate (which is what the polls were about), doesn't mean he won their vote in the election.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
One understands that he represents "THE PEOPLE". That is the difference.

But if he really believes that an action is morally wrong or bad for the nation, how can he support it? There is no justification for this that I've yet heard.

I havent heard the particulars of the speach, but it is not inconsistent to appreciate that once you are in a situation, you have to deal with it and make it come out as best as can be done. I don't think it is a good idea to let Iraq collapse into chaos (which may be beyond our ability to control anyway), yet I have consistently opposed the war. I may not approve of running a car into a crowd, but once done, you don't walk away and leave the injured die because you opposed the accident to begin with.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: yankeesfan
bush won because kerry did not convince the undecided voters to vote for him. Therefore, bush won.

How can you say that when the three major television networks poll's showed that more than 3/4's of the undecided voter leaned towrds Kerry at the end of this debate.?

Are there any polls or articles online to this nature?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: element
I wrote this in the other thread but no one there seems to want to take notice, so since you asked for Bush supporter's I'll post it here:

Bush clearly won.

Listen, Kerry says we need to build international alliances on the war on terror. Then he goes on to say he's for bi-lateral talks on North Korea instead of the president's position of multi-national talks on North Korea including China.

Kerry's flip flopping isn't going to win this war and bring our troops home.

:thumbsup:
Fact is, no one is going to help us in Iraq that isn't already. Fact is, the US alone can't apply as much pressure to NK as can the US, China, Russia, SK, and Japan together. Fact is, there are actions being taken to deal with Iran that Kerry can, at best, agree with Bush on.

 

[yankeesfan]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy

Originally posted by: yankeesfan
bush won because kerry did not convince the undecided voters to vote for him. Therefore, bush won.

How can you say that when the three major television networks poll's showed that more than 3/4's of the undecided voter leaned towrds Kerry at the end of this debate.?

people will vote and say that they are undecided when they are not to skew the results.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

He didn't have to WIN the debate tonight. He had to present himself as a viable alternative to Bush, and he absolutely did that. There is no disputing that there are clear differences between these two candidates.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: element
I wrote this in the other thread but no one there seems to want to take notice, so since you asked for Bush supporter's I'll post it here:

Bush clearly won.

Listen, Kerry says we need to build international alliances on the war on terror. Then he goes on to say he's for bi-lateral talks on North Korea instead of the president's position of multi-national talks on North Korea including China.

Kerry's flip flopping isn't going to win this war and bring our troops home.

i did notice that big time and was wondering how he could say that.. then i figured it out. he just wants to oppose the president on anything and everything..

No.. BUSH said that Kerry said Bilateral talks. What Kerry initially said was multilateral talks during his answer rather than no talks. Go rewind your Tivo. Kerry is basically saying if we're ever gonna solve this we gotta talk to north korea (alone or with allies). Bush is saying we should never talk with North Korea (never, or just let the allies talk).

Which is right? Who knows. I do know which was hasn't worked so far though.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: element
I wrote this in the other thread but no one there seems to want to take notice, so since you asked for Bush supporter's I'll post it here:

Bush clearly won.

Listen, Kerry says we need to build international alliances on the war on terror. Then he goes on to say he's for bi-lateral talks on North Korea instead of the president's position of multi-national talks on North Korea including China.

Kerry's flip flopping isn't going to win this war and bring our troops home.

i did notice that big time and was wondering how he could say that.. then i figured it out. he just wants to oppose the president on anything and everything..

ding ding ding ding ding! SOMEONE FRIGGIN GETS IT! wtf are you doing here? are you lost? I can't believe I ran into a poster on here that actually really knows what went on tonight.

Kerry IS just simply opposing the president, his whole campaign seems to be :"Look I'm not Bush and Bush is wrong for America" Meanwhile I see no plans from Kerry that make sense as to how he would handle anything better.

And he really IS a flip flopper. I mean how can you say you're for multinatinoal alliances and then want to allienate China from talks on North Korea!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!hi?!?!?!?!?

And why is no one noticing that this os one of the key differences between the 2 candidates when it comes to foreign policy issues?

We have to think about the future here and that future problem is NUCLEAR WEAPONS. let me make this perfectly nuCLEAR. Iraq is done for, whether you agree or not Saddam is out (I happen to agree with his ousting) But how will NK and Nuclear Proliferation be handled?

The more rogue nations obtain Nukes the worse off we are, and the more danger for catastrophy. 9/11 will seem like nothing if someone sets off nuclear war.

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Bush' only arguments so far.

1) Vietnam, whaaaaaaaaaaah
2) flip-flopper

Well, that's it. Bush and his religeous zeletioism (a bushism in the future?) have America convinced. Only brain dead morons are voting for bush.

Hold on there! Brain dead moron??? Don't you think that is a little extreme???

I'm a democrat and a Strong Kerry supporter but we can't steep our selves to calling the other side a group of "brain dead morons". I have no doubt the other side wants what is best for america. However I don't believe they are brain dead nor mornoic. I and a majority of america simply disagree with their path for America. It is ok for us to disagree, this is what a democracy and the democratic party is about, but we need not stoop our selves to name calling. I believe we are a party which Unites not divides. Lets bring america together and help each other recover from the devisiveness and division brought on by the current administration and its policies.

Edit: Spellcheck...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: element

Originally posted by: cmdavid

Originally posted by: element
I wrote this in the other thread but no one there seems to want to take notice, so since you asked for Bush supporter's I'll post it here:

Bush clearly won.

Listen, Kerry says we need to build international alliances on the war on terror. Then he goes on to say he's for bi-lateral talks on North Korea instead of the president's position of multi-national talks on North Korea including China.

Kerry's flip flopping isn't going to win this war and bring our troops home.

i did notice that big time and was wondering how he could say that.. then i figured it out. he just wants to oppose the president on anything and everything..

ding ding ding ding ding! SOMEONE FRIGGIN GETS IT! wtf are you doing here? are you lost? I can't believe I ran into a poster on here that actually really knows what went on tonight.

Kerry IS just simply opposing the president, his whole campaign seems to be :"Look I'm not Bush and Bush is wrong for America" Meanwhile I see no plans from Kerry that make sense as to how he would handle anything better.

And he really IS a flip flopper. I mean how can you say you're for multinatinoal alliances and then want to allienate China from talks on North Korea!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!hi?!?!?!?!?

And why is no one noticing that this os one of the key differences between the 2 candidates when it comes to foreign policy issues?

We have to think about the future here and that future problem is NUCLEAR WEAPONS. let me make this perfectly nuCLEAR. Iraq is done for, whether you agree or not Saddam is out (I happen to agree with his ousting) But how will NK and Nuclear Proliferation be handled?

The more rogue nations obtain Nukes the worse off we are, and the more danger for catastrophy. 9/11 will seem like nothing if someone sets off nuclear war.

And what has Bush done about it, really? Nothing. Attacking Iraq was just about getting Saddam.

Fact is that neither candidate is going to do a damn thing about it, because if a country wants them badly enough they will eventually get them. Bush however makes them want to get them in a hurry.

 

[element]

"And what has Bush done about it, really? Nothing. Attacking Iraq was just about getting Saddam. "

Fact is that neither candidate is going to do a damn thing about it, because if a country wants them badly enough they will eventually get them. Bush however makes them want to get them in a hurry. "

Attacking Iraq was more than about getting Saddam, but the central issue here is what each candidate will do about NK and nuke proliferation.

"If a country wants them badly enough they will eventually get them"

What it sounds like you're doing here is throwing in the towel. You're conceding defeat without a fight. Let's instead try and do something about it! How about prevent them from doing so?

In any event, can you really say you support a candidate who wants to alienate the international community when it comes to talks on NK (Kerry) over the candidate who actually IS forming international alliances to deal with NK (Bush)?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Bush' only arguments so far.

1) Vietnam, whaaaaaaaaaaah
2) flip-flopper

Well, that's it. Bush and his religeous zeletioism (a bushism in the future?) have America convinced. Only brain dead morons are voting for bush.

Hold on there! Brain dead moron??? Don't you think that is a little extreme???

I'm a democrat and a Strong Kerry supporter but we can't steep our selves to calling the other side a group of "brain dead morons". I have no doubt the other side wants what it best for america. However I don't believe they are brain dead nor mornoic. I and a majority of america simply disagree with their path for America. It is ok for us to disagree, this is what a democracy and the democratic party is about, but we need not stoop our selves to name calling. I believe we are a party which Unites not divides. Lets bring america together and help each other recover from the devisiveness and division brought on by the currect administration and its policies.

:thumbsup:

Unfortunately you are a quiet voice in a large crowd here on AT. This is pretty much the mantra on the left. My opinion = right. Your opinion = you must be stupid.

 

[sillymofo]

Originally posted by: element
I wrote this in the other thread but no one there seems to want to take notice, so since you asked for Bush supporter's I'll post it here:

Bush clearly won.

Listen, Kerry says we need to build international alliances on the war on terror. Then he goes on to say he's for bi-lateral talks on North Korea instead of the president's position of multi-national talks on North Korea including China.

Kerry's flip flopping isn't going to win this war and bring our troops home.

While Bush's "stands by his beliefs" to continue doing what he's doing will? Let me spell it out for you, continuation of war will not keep the death toll down.

 

[gutharius]

One thing I am disappointed about. Kerry did not put Bush to task for one of Bush's quoted reasons for going to war "This is the man that tried to kill my dad." Tho I can see how that might have been a personal attack. However I was satisified Kerry did highlight that George Bush Sr. did write in his book that going into iraq, and I am paraphrasing here, would lead to an unending, bloody, and problematic war. Toot sweet on that one!

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Bush' only arguments so far.

1) Vietnam, whaaaaaaaaaaah
2) flip-flopper

Well, that's it. Bush and his religeous zeletioism (a bushism in the future?) have America convinced. Only brain dead morons are voting for bush.

Hold on there! Brain dead moron??? Don't you think that is a little extreme???

I'm a democrat and a Strong Kerry supporter but we can't steep our selves to calling the other side a group of "brain dead morons". I have no doubt the other side wants what it best for america. However I don't believe they are brain dead nor mornoic. I and a majority of america simply disagree with their path for America. It is ok for us to disagree, this is what a democracy and the democratic party is about, but we need not stoop our selves to name calling. I believe we are a party which Unites not divides. Lets bring america together and help each other recover from the devisiveness and division brought on by the currect administration and its policies.

:thumbsup:

Unfortunately you are a quiet voice in a large crowd here on AT. This is pretty much the mantra on the left. My opinion = right. Your opinion = you must be stupid.

Ah, normally that certainly would be a stupid attitude to take wouldn't it? A bit small minded by definition even.

You're missing a subtle detail here. This particular election it's a bit different. Being "Liberal" myself my general attitude has always been:

My opinion = right. Your opinion = you disagree with me.

However right now there is soemthing different going on. It has nothing really to do with right or left and it's called George W. Bush. I think he is a dangerous president who is damaging this country. So this time around, yes you are correct:

My opinion = right. Your opinion = you must be stupid.

I think Bush is the absolute exception to Democrat/Republican. Honestly even though I am a Liberal I would have voted for John McCain over Al Gore last time. It's not always about Left/Right. It can be about the person. I hope this "you must be stupid" doesn't offend too much. I certainly don't believe that in any Left vs Right topic outside the sitting president. Pick ANY topic and it will be agree/disagree for me. If we bring up Bush though, it's going back to right/you must be stupid.

There is just too much evidence of this. With all that is going on in the world you cannot claim ignorance this time around. Either you see it or you are stupid.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Smilin
Honestly even though I am a Liberal I would have voted for John McCain over Al Gore last time. It's not always about Left/Right. It can be about the person. I hope this "you must be stupid" doesn't offend too much. I certainly don't believe that in any Left vs Right topic outside the sitting president. Pick ANY topic and it will be agree/disagree for me. If we bring up Bush though, it's going back to right/you must be stupid.

There is just too much evidence of this. With all that is going on in the world you cannot claim ignorance this time around. Either you see it or you are stupid.

:thumbsup:

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Smilin

My opinion = right. Your opinion = you must be stupid.

Again America is founded and composed of all beliefs and ideas. This is what makes our country great. But we must have the fore thought to understand everyone has the right to do as they please and believe what they want. It is our job as citizens of this nation to show respect for one another, even tho we do not see eye to eye on our political beliefs or our persepctions of each other. Before stooping to the level of name calling out of bigotry and misunderstanding, we must take ourselves to task to try to gain a better understanding of each others reasons and motives for what be believe and do.

Bush may not have been a good president but, we cannot follow in his path of devisiveness and division by insulting each other and pushing each other apart. Divided we are a weaker nation, United we are a force which cannot be pushed aside or diverted. In a time like this is is necessary for all citizens of America to be united in pushing for a better future in a time when so much turmoil is pouring over our country. Remeber a thousand united men have a better chance at moving mountains than a lone man drunk on his own hate based perceptions of the other 999 men.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: Smilin

My opinion = right. Your opinion = you must be stupid.

Again America is founded and composed of all beliefs and ideas. This is what makes our country great. But we must have the fore thought to understand everyone has the right to do as they please and believe what they want. It is our job as citizens of this nation to show respect for one another, even tho we do not see eye to eye on our political beliefs or our persepctions of each other. Before stooping to the level of name calling out of bigotry and misunderstanding, we must take ourselves to task to try to gain a better understanding of each others reasons and motives for what be believe and do.

Bush may not have been a good president but, we cannot follow in his path of devisiveness and division by insulting each other and pushing each other apart. Divided we are a weaker nation, United we are a force which cannot be pushed aside or diverted. In a time like this is is necessary for all citizens of America to be united in pushing for a better future in a time when so much turmoil is pouring over our country. Remeber a thousand united men have a better chance at moving mountains than a lone man drunk on his own hate based perceptions of the other 999 men.

Hey man. That's pretty much bullsh1t. Would you mind terribly editing your post above to include more relevent portions of my post if not the whole thing. I would be happy to edit this post down to a "." in return.

I don't think I've seen something more taken out of context in a long time.

Either skillfully attack my position or stay out of the argument altogether. It's weak. If you can't run with the big dogs stay the fvck on the porch.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I havent heard the particulars of the speach, but it is not inconsistent to appreciate that once you are in a situation, you have to deal with it and make it come out as best as can be done. I don't think it is a good idea to let Iraq collapse into chaos (which may be beyond our ability to control anyway), yet I have consistently opposed the war. I may not approve of running a car into a crowd, but once done, you don't walk away and leave the injured die because you opposed the accident to begin with.

Iraq isn't the issue that I was talking about. 😛 I was talking about things that he claims to personally believe (abortion, stem cells), yet still supports the exact opposite.

I just had a thought - maybe allowing every nation to get nukes is the solution to achieving world peace! Or world destruction.

 

[FredFredrickson]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
You miss the entire point of debate: presentation of opposing opinions and beliefs. Bush stands by his core beliefs, while Kerry claims that he believes something (abortion, stem cells), yet supports legalization in direct contradiction to those beliefs. One is genuine, the other is not. You can't honestly support something that you honestly don't believe in - that's just a contradiction. I think this is my biggest problem with Kerry.

Bush missed the point of the whole election. While Kerry told the nation of his plans for the future of the country, Bush kept repeating the same things over and over, never actually answering questions, or presenting his views. Bush ended up looking like a bumbling fool, not remembering anything save two phrases, nervous as hell, and came off like he didn't have a plan for this country or any other.

To say that Bush won is admittance of your own misunderstanding of debate. Bush proves his own ineptitude, and for some reason many people still put their faith blindly behind him. Troubling.

 

[element]

Originally posted by: sillymofo

Originally posted by: element
I wrote this in the other thread but no one there seems to want to take notice, so since you asked for Bush supporter's I'll post it here:

Bush clearly won.

Listen, Kerry says we need to build international alliances on the war on terror. Then he goes on to say he's for bi-lateral talks on North Korea instead of the president's position of multi-national talks on North Korea including China.

Kerry's flip flopping isn't going to win this war and bring our troops home.

While Bush's "stands by his beliefs" to continue doing what he's doing will? Let me spell it out for you, continuation of war will not keep the death toll down.

What would you have us do? Leave Iraq as the mess it is half done? It owuld degrade into a worse scenario then before evntually causing more inocent lives to be lost. It would make Iraq even more uncertain and dangerous.

You can't leave a job half assed like that. What he stands by, is his belief that the world and the U.S. is better off with Saddam behind bars rather than as dictator of Iraq. Do you disagree?

 

[gutharius]

Originally posted by: Smilin

Originally posted by: gutharius

Originally posted by: Smilin

My opinion = right. Your opinion = you must be stupid.

Again America is founded and composed of all beliefs and ideas. This is what makes our country great. But we must have the fore thought to understand everyone has the right to do as they please and believe what they want. It is our job as citizens of this nation to show respect for one another, even tho we do not see eye to eye on our political beliefs or our persepctions of each other. Before stooping to the level of name calling out of bigotry and misunderstanding, we must take ourselves to task to try to gain a better understanding of each others reasons and motives for what be believe and do.

Bush may not have been a good president but, we cannot follow in his path of devisiveness and division by insulting each other and pushing each other apart. Divided we are a weaker nation, United we are a force which cannot be pushed aside or diverted. In a time like this is is necessary for all citizens of America to be united in pushing for a better future in a time when so much turmoil is pouring over our country. Remeber a thousand united men have a better chance at moving mountains than a lone man drunk on his own hate based perceptions of the other 999 men.

Hey man. That's pretty much bullsh1t.
<snip>
<end snip>
If you can't run with the big dogs stay the fvck on the porch.

Unfortunately you keep proving my point... It's sad we have to sink to the lowest common denominator...

 

[imported_Condor]

I think Kerry did better in the debate. Bush has never done that well in the verbose arena. He has always been the same - a man of action, not words. Kerry is a man of words and his action has been somewhat dubious. I know a lot of college student interns that could write and make really wonderful speeches. They would hurt themselves if you put a screwdriver in their hands! I knew an older highway engineer in a southern state who couldn't put two words togather, but had worn the faceing off the keys of a Sharp scientific calculator and still used it every day. Carter could make great speeches and was a buffon as a President. Like they say "Those who can; do. Those who can't; teach." Kerry got us out of Viet Nam too. 4.5 million Cambodians wouldn't vote for him, but almost every one of our enemies would!