To P182 or not to P182 -- that is the question!

[de8212]

Just started my build asnd have at least one p182 question.

How do you get the front panel off the case to install optical devices. I just don't want to break anything by pulling too hard.

Also, semi-related, while doing cable management can you route wires (cpu fan wire to be precise) over heatpipes? The best route will leave the wire resting on the pipe and I have no idea how hot it will get. Logic tells me not to but I am curious to others first hand experience.

 

[Ozoneman]

Originally posted by: de8212
Just started my build asnd have at least one p182 question.

How do you get the front panel off the case to install optical devices. I just don't want to break anything by pulling too hard.

Also, semi-related, while doing cable management can you route wires (cpu fan wire to be precise) over heatpipes? The best route will leave the wire resting on the pipe and I have no idea how hot it will get. Logic tells me not to but I am curious to others first hand experience.

I just put my finger behind the right side of the black plate and pull firmly.

I wondered the same about the wires on the heatpipes, and really can't say for sure. I tried to avoid any potential problem.

 

[de8212]

Originally posted by: Ozoneman

I just put my finger behind the right side of the black plate and pull firmly.

I wondered the same about the wires on the heatpipes, and really can't say for sure. I tried to avoid any potential problem.

I could feel the middle "give" but not the top and bottom. And to make it worse I'm one handed during all of this. Broken arms suck.

Someone let me know about the wires on heat pipes. I just can't come up with any other way that will hide the majority of the wire.

 

[de8212]

thanks. got the front panel off.

Also curious how to connect the power led. Mobo has two pins, case has 3 pin connector but middle is empty. Just want to know which is + and which is -???

 

[Ozoneman]

All your white wires are positive and the various colored wires are negative (or ground). The connectors also have a triangle on the positive hole.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Ozoneman
I don't know why I'm bothering, but I'll try one more time. You added up the 4 80mm fans to get 120-160 CFM airflow through the Cooler Master case. Let's start over. First of all two of the fans on the Cooler Master were input and two were exhaust. The 80 mm fans I had were Vantec Stealth which have a flow of 27 CFM. So I had 54 CFM being pushed in to the Cooler Master case from the front and 54 CFM being pulled out the back and top. That totals only 54 CFM of air going throught the case. The same 54 CFM coming in is the same 54 CFM going out. So there was no where near 120-160 CFM of air flow through the Cooler Master case as you stated. The Cooler Master had a flow of 54 CFM through it. It is simple math which I guess you didn't do so well in.

Ah, so you had completely silent fans and now the Antec fans at medium speed which are nowhere near silent at that setting.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way either. When you add fans you add their CFM. If you had a tunnel with a fan in the front and say it did 100CFM of airflow. That's how it would be. Add another fan in the back of the tunnel with the same capability, you don't think airflow would be a little higher? At all? You surely are mistaken and BADLY.

Originally posted by: Ozoneman
Second, my P182 doesn't "mainly have exhaust airflow only". It has two 120 mm fans exhausting and one 120 mm fan inputting air in the mobo area. At medium speed a Antec Tricool fan puts out 53 CFM. So with two 120 mm exhaust fans that is 106 CFM of air flow through the case. The input fan is supplying 53 CFM and the other 53 CFM is being pulled through the back vents and other openings. By the way, why do you think Antec put the vents on the back panel? Could it be that a much more educated engineer designed the P182? Someone more educated than you?

Wait, according to your earlier statement, the exhaust fans are providing more airflow. So the front intake fan (which is severely limited behind that disgusting front vent and filter) makes absolutely no difference at all!

Antec put vents on the back panel because the orignal P180 had a little freakin' duct system so that the PCI area could get more airflow since the case obviously lacked it. Talking about who designed it and education? You need to do some more research yourself!

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article249-page4.html

The rest of your post is complete garbage and not worth commenting on as you clearly are oblivious to the design of the case. Maybe you should have read a little on the P180 because that's where your stupid P182 came from with ZERO cooling improvements from the previous generation.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way either. When you add fans you add their CFM.

Only if they are in parallel.

If you had a tunnel with a fan in the front and say it did 100CFM of airflow. That's how it would be. Add another fan in the back of the tunnel with the same capability, you don't think airflow would be a little higher?

No!
The air flow will be 100 CFM at most in that case.
If you have only one fan at one end and there is some leakage in the tunnel, the air flow at the other end will be less than 100CFM (because of the leakage). But, adding another fan at the other end (series) will never increase the CFM beyond 100.

Edit:
If you have 2 current sources, and each of them is set to 1mA and you put them in series, the current will still be 1mA.
This is just an example. Never place current sources in series or voltage sources in parallel.

But, if you place two 1mA current sources in parallel, you will end up with a 2mA current.


Edit 2:
Air resistance can cause the effective CFM of a fan to be slightly less than advertised. If you put two of them in series, the resistance can be overcome and the effective CFM could reach the real advertised maximum.
But, you do not add the CFM of two fans that are in series.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way either. When you add fans you add their CFM.

Only if they are in parallel.

If you had a tunnel with a fan in the front and say it did 100CFM of airflow. That's how it would be. Add another fan in the back of the tunnel with the same capability, you don't think airflow would be a little higher?

No!
The air flow will be 100 CFM at most in that case.
If you have only one fan at one end and there is some leakage in the tunnel, the air flow at the other end will be less than 100CFM (because of the leakage). But, adding another fan at the other end (series) will never increase the CFM beyond 100.

I don't agree with you at all. Otherwise why would cases even come with intake fans?

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: Navid

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
Unfortunately it doesn't work that way either. When you add fans you add their CFM.

Only if they are in parallel.

If you had a tunnel with a fan in the front and say it did 100CFM of airflow. That's how it would be. Add another fan in the back of the tunnel with the same capability, you don't think airflow would be a little higher?

No!
The air flow will be 100 CFM at most in that case.
If you have only one fan at one end and there is some leakage in the tunnel, the air flow at the other end will be less than 100CFM (because of the leakage). But, adding another fan at the other end (series) will never increase the CFM beyond 100.

I don't agree with you at all. Otherwise why would cases even come with intake fans?

The reason is that you cannot find any case that is perfectly sealed.
If you only have exhaust fans, air will enter the case from any hole it can find. So, the amount of air entering the case from where the hard drives are will be much less than desired.

Even your optic drives are not sealed. Air will enter through them too. Your floppy drive too.
But, those are usually at the top. You don't want air to enter the case from the top. Then, there will be no air flow at the bottom!

By placing intake fans, you can have some control over how much air enters the case where you want it to.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Navid
The reason is that you cannot find any case that is perfectly sealed.
If you only have exhaust fans, air will enter the case from any hole it can find. So, the amount of air entering the case from where the hard drives are will be much less than desired.

Even your optic drives are not sealed. Air will enter through them too. Your floppy drive too.
But, those are usually at the top. You don't want air to enter the case from the top. Then, there will be no air flow at the bottom!

By placing intake fans, you can have some control over how much air enters the case where you want it to.

Not really. With your logic, if there are exhaust fans with more CFM than any intake fan could bring in then it will always move more air because of exhaust and the intake fan is pointless.

Also, thanks for reinforcing my statement with the fact that the rear vent in the back of the P180 is pointless because of all the other openings in the case. Glad to see you on my side.

 

[Navid]

Think of a box in front of you.
You put one marble in the box per second.
Your buddy is sitting on the other side of the same box and he removes one marble from it per second.
Your rate is one marble per second.
Your friend's rate is one marble per second also.

How many marbles pass through the box per second?

Do you add the rates and say that 2 marbles pass through the box per second?

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Navid
Think of a box in front of you.
You put one marble in the box per second.
Your buddy is sitting on the other side of the same box and he removes one marble from it per second.
Your rate is one marble per second.
Your friend's rate is one marble per second also.

How many marbles pass through the box per second?

Do you add the rates and say that 2 marbles pass through the box per second?

CFM measures gas/air movement, not marbles...

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: Navid
Think of a box in front of you.
You put one marble in the box per second.
Your buddy is sitting on the other side of the same box and he removes one marble from it per second.
Your rate is one marble per second.
Your friend's rate is one marble per second also.

How many marbles pass through the box per second?

Do you add the rates and say that 2 marbles pass through the box per second?

CFM measures gas/air movement, not marbles...

The point is that you do not add the CFM of two fans that are in series.
If you did, what would you do if they were in parallel? Multiply them?

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Navid
The point is that you do not add the CFM of two fans that are in series.
If you did, what would you do if they were in parallel? Multiply them?

Actually, you're very wrong on all of this...

http://www.thermalcontrolproducts.com/5_101series.htm

"In series configurations, the airflow that moves through one airmover is routed through a second airmover. The total flow rate through each airmover is the same but the second airmover ?boosts? the pressure. Serial configurations are commonly used with one fantray mounted in the inlet to a system and a second fantray is mounted in the exhaust."

You do not pass Go. You do not collect $200.

 

[MarcVenice]

Hmz, maybe I'm reading that wrong, but doesn't it CLEARLY say that the total flow rate through each airmover/fan is the same ? It doesn't make sense any other way, if one fan pulls in x amount of air, how is an exhaust fan supposed to exhaust MORE then that x amount of air ? Like your qoute states, the airflow from intake fan = airflow from exhaust fan, but the pressure gets boosted.

You're just being stubborn, but if you apply some simple logic it should make sense to you.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Hmz, maybe I'm reading that wrong, but doesn't it CLEARLY say that the total flow rate through each airmover/fan is the same ? It doesn't make sense any other way, if one fan pulls in x amount of air, how is an exhaust fan supposed to exhaust MORE then that x amount of air ? Like your qoute states, the airflow from intake fan = airflow from exhaust fan, but the pressure gets boosted.

You're just being stubborn, but if you apply some simple logic it should make sense to you.

Apparently you missed the fact that the second "airmover" will "boost" the pressure. I even bold faced the entire sentence but your simple logic completely overlooked it. Come on, go ahead, read it again.

 

[Navid]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Hmz, maybe I'm reading that wrong, but doesn't it CLEARLY say that the total flow rate through each airmover/fan is the same ? It doesn't make sense any other way, if one fan pulls in x amount of air, how is an exhaust fan supposed to exhaust MORE then that x amount of air ? Like your qoute states, the airflow from intake fan = airflow from exhaust fan, but the pressure gets boosted.

You're just being stubborn, but if you apply some simple logic it should make sense to you.

Apparently you missed the fact that the second "airmover" will "boost" the pressure. I even bold faced the entire sentence but your simple logic completely overlooked it. Come on, go ahead, read it again.

It means that if you only have an exhaust fan, the air pressure inside the tunnel drops with respect to the air pressure outside. As you said, air (gas) can easily compress or expand.

Adding an intake fan to the tunnel, in this case, will raise the pressure of the air inside the tunnel compared to the first case.
But, neither has anything to do with the air flow rate.
Air pressure and air flow rate are different parameters.

As Marc pointed out, the total air flow is the same through each series fan.

You still have not shown us a link claiming that the total CFM (air flow rate) of series fans is the sum of each fan CFM.

 

[Ozoneman]

Navid,

It's not worth it. You saw how he is. He must be a young kid that hasn't had much schooling yet but thinks he knows a lot. After he completes high school or a couple years of college he might get it. I've got a BS in Chemistry and a lot of experience in my job working with airflows and so forth in the air monitoring field. But he knows better. Like I said, don't waste your time.

 

[MarcVenice]

Fact is, he's missing the most simple logic there could possibly be. The line he qouted proved us right, and he is still denying it. I suppose it's a little frustrating, but not really worth anymore of our precious time

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Ozoneman
Navid,

It's not worth it. You saw how he is. He must be a young kid that hasn't had much schooling yet but thinks he knows a lot. After he completes high school or a couple years of college he might get it. I've got a BS in Chemistry and a lot of experience in my job working with airflows and so forth in the air monitoring field. But he knows better. Like I said, don't waste your time.

LOL! You never responded to my post anyway to shut up. What is the vent on the back of the P180 for again? Come on...admit that you were wrong.

Also LOL @ your "young kid" comments. ROFL @ your "BS in Chemistry". You want to compare resumes or something? This is all about a case and got a little out of hand because of your lack of understanding of what you purchased.

Until you post pictures with proof of your temperature differences by installing everything back in your old case I am going to call complete BS on you. Don't talk crap about a case to people that owned it and had plenty of time to evaluate it's flaws.

 

[Ozoneman]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Fact is, he's missing the most simple logic there could possibly be. The line he qouted proved us right, and he is still denying it. I suppose it's a little frustrating, but not really worth anymore of our precious time

He is missing more than some simple logic. =;c)

I think this thread shows that everyone that responded (except him) thinks the P180/182 cases are very good cases. I don't recall anyone else in this thread agreeing with him that it is a bad case. Considering the incorrect statements he has made, his ability to understand technical matters are questionable, so I hope others interested in this case will see that and not be turned off on this case.

 

[Liberator21]

First off I haven't waded through the other posts so forgive me if this has already been covered...

I currently own a P182 with side panel from performance-PCs.com I've painted the inside black which gives it a nice dark look. My previous case was a Lian Li PC65 Plus II, black and all aluminum. Here's the rundown in my opinion of both (in case you wanted to know about L.L.)

P182
-Slightly large for a mid-tower
-Unique gun-metal color
-Easily modded and painted
-Built in liquid cooling ports and excellent cable management (best I've ever seen)
-Very heavy
-Very hot (not really built for maximum cooling)

PC65 Plus II
-Can get crammed inside fast
-Excellent build quality
-Lightweight
-Ran cooler due to aluminum and better arranged cooling (mainly around GPU area)
-Tricky cable management

Overall, I like Lian Li's quality MUCH better than Antec's. Sometime the Antec feels cheap for a $200 case (hey, that window didn't cut itself). Even for a $130 or whatever it is case, it still feels like it should be cheaper. But for the 'feel' or the 'bad-ness' factor, the Antec beats out the LL. Barely. In this price range +/- $150, I would go Lian Li. The Antec takes modding but it can compete.

 

[jonmcc33]

Originally posted by: Ozoneman

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Fact is, he's missing the most simple logic there could possibly be. The line he qouted proved us right, and he is still denying it. I suppose it's a little frustrating, but not really worth anymore of our precious time

He is missing more than some simple logic. =;c)

I think this thread shows that everyone that responded (except him) thinks the P180/182 cases are very good cases. I don't recall anyone else in this thread agreeing with him that it is a bad case. Considering the incorrect statements he has made, his ability to understand technical matters are questionable, so I hope others interested in this case will see that and not be turned off on this case.

You still won't answer me.

You asked me if I knew what the rear vent on the back of the P182 was for. I told you it was left there because the P180 (original design) had a duct system for the PCI area that was attached to that rear vent.

You want to talk crap but you have don't even have any idea about the roots of the case. That rear vent does nothing and I'm still LOLing @ your stupid posts. Even to go as pathetic as trying to call a 29 year old man a "young kid" and trying to use some college degree crap with me.

Come on, kid. Respond to that whole rear vent thing already. I'm dying to see your response! You were wrong! Admit it! ROFL!

 

[Ozoneman]

Liberator21,

Interesting. I found the cooling much better than my previous case (note previous posts). What fan speeds and number of fans were you using for both the P182 and the PC65?

 

[Ozoneman]

jonmcc33,

I don't feel it is worth it to respond to you any longer because you don't seem to have any common sense and you aren't willing to listen to others.

I will however answer your question since you keep nagging me about it. The rear vents of the P182 are for cooling (to allow air to be pulled in to the case). If you looked at the link I provided you in a previous post you would see how air is pulled in through those vents. I don't care about the history of the P180 and what it may or may not had. I've been discussing my P182 case and how it cools.

It is obvious you don't even know what the back vents on the P182 look like. There is no way a duct system could be connected to the vents on a P182. The back vents on the P182 are slits in the PCI slot covers. There are no other "vents" on the back plate except the exhaust fan vent and the PSU vent. Again you have demonstrated that you don't know what you are talking about. Go to the link below and view the pictures of the P182. Look at the 10th picture from left to right. You will see the multiple slits in the PCI slot covers that allow air to enter the case. It is obvious that air passing through those slits will move past the video card and any PCI cards installed, thus cooling them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811129025

Now that I've answered your question, please go away and stop bothering me. Thank you!