John Connor
Lifer
- Nov 30, 2012
- 22,757
- 619
- 121
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,790
- 6,349
- 126
That is a very articulate and well thought out response to the facts I provided. I assume you think I'm a left winger simply because I stuck with facts and not this mindless blathering and name calling you are doing in this thread, which I appreciate. Carry on being lied to since it makes you more comfortable. Ignoring facts doesn't make them cease to be facts.
MomentsofSanity
Lifer
- Jan 25, 2011
- 17,090
- 9,573
- 146
These say you're full of shit and have no idea what you're taking about.
http://www.iusct.net
http://www.iusct.net/General Documents/Communique 16.1 (9 May 2016).pdf
McCarthy is a highly paid propagandist, yes. He could spin the virgin birth into a catastrophe for all mankind.
The nuclear aspects of the agreement were the big deal. The rest are details in a broader agreement.
It all comes back to one fundamental truth- no weapons grade material, no nuclear weapons. That's what we wanted. Iran wanted their money along with trade & diplomatic concessions. We, the 5+1 made a deal. So long as Iran doesn't violate that part of it then the others will hold to it as well no matter how goofy our own right wing acts. American business is the loser.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
The short answer is that Obama wanted a deal with Iran more than Iran wanted a deal with Obama. Paying them over a billion dollars was the price of that agreement. Obama's justification was that the UN had already ruled against us on almost every claim - no big surprise given that we get hosed on virtually everything litigated in the UN - so eventually we'd have to pay up anyway or the UN would, um, ask us nicely again. Thus Iran paid little to nothing for seizing American assets in the revolution .
The hostage ransom aspect is a red herring IMO. Iran insisted on the cash payment to further humiliate America by framing it for domestic consumption as a ransom. Domestically it certainly helped the Iranian government for Iranians to see their government make the mighty Great Satan have to fly in a planeload of foreign cash to get our people back. But to everyone else, it appears that we paid them a ransom with their own money - not exactly the mark of a bright kidnapper. It also reinforces Iran's image as a terrorist nation. As far as the legality of the transfer, it is technically illegal to transfer anything of value to Iran, but I'm pretty sure the President has considerable latitude to obey UN judgments. And in any case, those laws are designed to restrict American businesses, not the federal government.
Also, please note that the whole deal is $1.1 to $1.2 billion, not billions.
The hostage ransom aspect is a red herring IMO. Iran insisted on the cash payment to further humiliate America by framing it for domestic consumption as a ransom. Domestically it certainly helped the Iranian government for Iranians to see their government make the mighty Great Satan have to fly in a planeload of foreign cash to get our people back. But to everyone else, it appears that we paid them a ransom with their own money - not exactly the mark of a bright kidnapper. It also reinforces Iran's image as a terrorist nation. As far as the legality of the transfer, it is technically illegal to transfer anything of value to Iran, but I'm pretty sure the President has considerable latitude to obey UN judgments. And in any case, those laws are designed to restrict American businesses, not the federal government.
Also, please note that the whole deal is $1.1 to $1.2 billion, not billions.
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,557
- 17,082
- 136
I like how we got the full spectrum of answers in this thread. We had the bat shit crazy (John Connor) American, the equivalent of a literate retard (werepossum), your typical ignorant American (htfoff, no disrespect meant), to your educated American (momentofsanity &mxy).
Its not a surprise that people have mixed reactions to this event. There are alot of coincidences and facts that if left out will leave one to come to erroneous conclusions. The details are also obscure enough that those with an agenda can easily spin the story to push any narrative they want.
I'm not sure what it says about us as Americans though, are we lazy? Gullible?, easily manipulated?
Its not a surprise that people have mixed reactions to this event. There are alot of coincidences and facts that if left out will leave one to come to erroneous conclusions. The details are also obscure enough that those with an agenda can easily spin the story to push any narrative they want.
I'm not sure what it says about us as Americans though, are we lazy? Gullible?, easily manipulated?
MomentsofSanity
Lifer
- Jan 25, 2011
- 17,090
- 9,573
- 146
Meghan54
Lifer
- Oct 18, 2009
- 11,684
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Would you say that you're any better than always being on the same side of issues as someone like John Connor?
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 33,557
- 17,082
- 136
MomentsofSanity
Lifer
- Jan 25, 2011
- 17,090
- 9,573
- 146
An unattached objectivity is a wonderful thing. People like Connor are far too emotionally invested in everything being a particular way. He will never be able to look at things and see something that contradicts what he already feels to be truth.
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 31,421
- 47,769
- 136
I read comments like the OP and crack up. The party of Reagan and Cheney have absolutely no business giving Obama shit about Iran.
When the GOP isn't pulling shit like sending the Ayatollah a group letter or scheming with Netanyahu to circumvent our own White House and State Dept, then they can mouth off about this kind of thing with some credibility. Until then it's just more noise from a party-before-country group, one heavily influenced by a certain religious agenda.
When the GOP isn't pulling shit like sending the Ayatollah a group letter or scheming with Netanyahu to circumvent our own White House and State Dept, then they can mouth off about this kind of thing with some credibility. Until then it's just more noise from a party-before-country group, one heavily influenced by a certain religious agenda.
This thread is a great example of what sort of Psy-Ops Russians are engaging in. The OP very much likely has a compromised account that was hacked by Russian botnet phishing. It then posts inflammatory thread topic on a forum. Most rebuff it, but maybe just ONE person becomes skeptical. Do this hundreds of thousands of times in various locations, with the perceived authenticity of an account that isn't fresh, and through that you can steer thought. You peel away one or two sheep from the flock, and whittle down the flock just enough for it to become vulnerable.
Fucking brilliant work being done here.
Fucking brilliant work being done here.
^ kage69, Yeah, that was in the back of my mind. I'm old enough to remember it. Reagan SELLING weapons to Iran despite an actual embargo against the country at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair
Conservatives/GOP biggest bunch of hypocrites in history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair
Conservatives/GOP biggest bunch of hypocrites in history.
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 31,421
- 47,769
- 136
There's a couple of real winners hanging around, isn't there?
Connor and company make me often think of that Colin Powell quote: "Never let your ego get so close to your position that when your position goes, your ego goes with it."
- Mar 14, 2004
- 1,261
- 57
- 91
First time back since I posted question...this place hasn't changed much thats for sure. Has its fair share of people who get a special feeling running down their leg to ridicule and bash others. Don't have time to troll, to many other things in life more important. Did not know that it was their money in the first place. Thanks to the OP for posting that. Other than that....all I saw were people trying to SHOW and TELL how mature (or lack of) they are.
Have a good day everybody!
Have a good day everybody!
MomentsofSanity
Lifer
- Jan 25, 2011
- 17,090
- 9,573
- 146
So you didn't know one of the most basic points of the entire exchange, that it was always their money that they were going to get back no matter what, and drew conclusions blaming an entire segment of people "the left" and impugning their beliefs and motivations but it's everyone else who was at fault.
Ok then.
That pretty well covers all the concern trolling about poor Bernie being oh-so cheated by the evil Killary, as well.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,390
- 33,047
- 136
If you want civil discussion don't label a center-right administration as "the left." Also, don't be surprised when people react negatively when you post about things without doing a simple Google about the topic first, because that is what trolls do: post bullshit that can be debunked in 30 seconds.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
lol! President Obama's "center-right administration".
Apparently the left in your mind is populated exclusively by rainbows and unicorns.
dank69
Lifer
- Oct 6, 2009
- 37,390
- 33,047
- 136
It's funny because no matter how many times you are shown the DW-Nominate scores you think your opinion negates them.
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