To gun owners out there...

[dabuddha]

I dunno, weight counts for a lot. My first gun was a 1911 and I had zero issue with it, I've also introduced new shooters to it and they loved it. I'll concede it's not the "best" new gun given the more intricate operations and cost of ammo, but there's nothing wrong with it either.

This. I went with the Ruger and it's still hands down my favorite gun!

 

[rudeguy]

I trust irish's word, dabuddha has never steered me wrong either. I have no doubt that a 1911 would be a fine starter gun. Hell...100 years of production agrees with them.

Now that the OP's question has been answered directly, I'll add my $.02 on this. My first handgun was a Glock 9mm and I am not upset that Glock was my choice. Great quality, less moving parts, shoots straight and upkeep isn't really an issue. I do agree that 1911s are great guns but the safeties and all the extra moving parts would keep me from recommending it as a first gun. I like simple. Again, I'm sure 1911s are great but that wouldn't be the first gun I thought of to recommend as a starter gun.

 

[blake0812]

Wow, thanks guys! Appreciate the info!

 

[PliotronX]

A steel 1911 is perfectly fine. Hell a full size steel 1911 has less kick than most plastic 9mm and .40s.

I think a 1911 is a great first gun for someone who is interested in the mechanics of guns just as much as shooting them.

Couple of things with 1911s - buy new, particularly for your first one. Lots of home gunsmiths play with them, and it's not always immediately apparent.

Read up on where to look for "play". Colts tend to be fairly rattle-y and their grip safeties aren't always fitted that well. There are plenty of guides on what to look for. Personally I only have an issue with this when you're in the >$1000 area, which you will be with a colt.


My suggestion is to get either a rock island 1911 with the newer nicer logo, or get a springfield range officer if you're willing to spend a little more money. If you REALLY want a colt I would personally get the basic series 70 to avoid the more complicated firing pin blocks.

So against drivers running over mobs but you mirrored my thoughts Got my eye on the Rock Island tactical or the newer 2011 which has a picatinny rail.

 

[JulesMaximus]

A steel 1911 is perfectly fine. Hell a full size steel 1911 has less kick than most plastic 9mm and .40s.

I think a 1911 is a great first gun for someone who is interested in the mechanics of guns just as much as shooting them.

Couple of things with 1911s - buy new, particularly for your first one. Lots of home gunsmiths play with them, and it's not always immediately apparent.

Read up on where to look for "play". Colts tend to be fairly rattle-y and their grip safeties aren't always fitted that well. There are plenty of guides on what to look for. Personally I only have an issue with this when you're in the >$1000 area, which you will be with a colt.


My suggestion is to get either a rock island 1911 with the newer nicer logo, or get a springfield range officer if you're willing to spend a little more money. If you REALLY want a colt I would personally get the basic series 70 to avoid the more complicated firing pin blocks.

Just make sure you don't drop it. :whiste:

 

[NutBucket]

You cheapskates.

Dan Wesson/Ed Brown or go home...

 

[Kadarin]

I've purchased firearms via both a local gun store and online via gunbroker.com. I love my 1911 (Kimber Eclipse Custom II), but agree that if you haven't already, go to your local store/range and rent a 1911 to shoot, and compare it to other models/manufacturers first.

 

[Svnla]

OP, best gun for you = the one that fits in your hand the best and you are comfortable in using it. Hard to say X brand is good because it could be good for me <my hand> but your hand could be bigger/smaller so X brand would not be a good recommendation.

Go to the local gun stores/pawn shops or gun range and try to touch/feel/test as much gun as possible.

For best price, use the internet but do not forget about shipping and FFL fee.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Just make sure you don't drop it. :whiste:

That all started when a plastic gun manuf lobbied to change a commiefornia gov't contract to require firing pin blocks.

Most modern series 70 have Ti firing pins, lighter pin springs, and heavier hammer springs. People have test drops at terminal velocity with these versions and the the pin doesn't hit the primer.

 

[JulesMaximus]

That all started when a plastic gun manuf lobbied to change a commiefornia gov't contract to require firing pin blocks.

Most modern series 70 have Ti firing pins, lighter pin springs, and heavier hammer springs. People have test drops at terminal velocity with these versions and the the pin doesn't hit the primer.

If you say so. I have a series 80 Colt and haven't had any issue with the "complicated firing pin block" as you put it so I'm not sure what you're going on about. I've owned this gun for almost 25 years and fired thousands of rounds through it.

 

[Phanuel]

If you say so. I have a series 80 Colt and haven't had any issue with the "complicated firing pin block" as you put it so I'm not sure what you're going on about. I've owned this gun for almost 25 years and fired thousands of rounds through it.

Series 80 make the trigger worse and provide no additional realistic safety over a series 70. The pin won't accelerate fast enough to set off a primer.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Series 80 make the trigger worse and provide no additional realistic safety over a series 70. The pin won't accelerate fast enough to set off a primer.

While the second part of your response may be true, the first part is completely false. :thumbsdown:

 

[silicon]

I'd recommend going to a range and renting various handguns - you may find that some are far more comfortable for you to shoot than others. Some people like 1911's, some like Sigs, some like H&K's, etc.

I will second that recommendation, you can rent many different brands and caliber handguns and decide which one you like best.

 

[Phanuel]

While the second part of your response may be true, the first part is completely false. :thumbsdown:

Extra moving parts that contribute to resistance of the trigger don't impact the feel?

Me thinks you've never shot a good series 70 trigger. Your 80 is worse, no ifs ands or buts.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

If you say so. I have a series 80 Colt and haven't had any issue with the "complicated firing pin block" as you put it so I'm not sure what you're going on about. I've owned this gun for almost 25 years and fired thousands of rounds through it.

Series 80 isn't inherently bad and many (most) people have no problems, but its trigger system is without a doubt more complicated than a series 70.

I wouldn't turn down a series 80, but if given the choice there is no real reason whatsoever to go with 80 over 70 whereas there are plenty of reasons to go with 70 over 80.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Extra moving parts that contribute to resistance of the trigger don't impact the feel?

Me thinks you've never shot a good series 70 trigger. Your 80 is worse, no ifs ands or buts.

Really? I bet you couldn't tell the difference between the trigger on my series 80 vs any series 70 Colt (yes, it has been tuned).

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=28&t=127356

The Series 70 versus Series 80 has nothing much to do with reliability or one being"better".

The only real difference between the two is that the Series 80 has a firing pin lock safety feature that keeps the firing pin locked until the trigger is pulled.
This prevents an accidental discharge if the gun were to be dropped or if there was a catastrophic failure of the action that allowed the hammer to drop.

In the early days of the Series 80 some people claimed it made the trigger pull heavier and some gunsmiths claimed they couldn't get a good trigger pull with it.

Since then most good gunsmiths have learned that the Series 80 safety has little effect on trigger work and most shooters are unable to positively identify a gun with the Series 80 installed in blind trigger tests.

Some people don't like the Series 80 firing pin lock simply because they don't like anything that adds possible complications to a gun. Others like the idea of a safer gun or just don't see any problem with the system.

It comes down to a matter of personal preference.

Many PDs don't allow a S70 if they allow 1911s at all. Kind of a must for me.

All my life I've been chastised for owning S80 Colts. Manly by S70 fans. Firing them both, I cannot tell.

Any smith worth his salt can tune a 80 series just as well as a 70 series system.

 

[CurseTheSky]

For your first gun, search for gun stores in your area. Look at reviews, and Google the shop's name to see if there are major complaints. You're much better off paying the higher price from a reputable shop than trying your luck with a gun show or buying a gun online sight-unseen. Once you know a good bit about guns and especially the platform you're looking into (whether 1911, Sig, Glock, etc.), you know what warning signs to look for and what to avoid. I also recommend a brand new gun for your first, not something used that someone may have tried their hand at kitchen table gunsmithing on.

In regards to 1911s, Series 70 and Series 80 are both fine. Series 80 adds a few small parts that block the firing pin until the trigger is pulled. Some claim that it makes the trigger stiffer / grittier / etc., but unless you're running an ultralight competition trigger setup with a lot of work put into the gun, you'll never know the difference (and even then you probably couldn't tell). My only recommendation is that if you buy a Seires 80, which is 90% of what Colt offers now, you stick with it and don't use any of the third-party parts available to remove the safety features. Having an accidental discharge from a gun that wasn't design with a firing pin block (S70) is bad enough, but having one on a gun that you REMOVED the factory safety feature (S80 modified) could be asking for extra jail time, lawsuits, etc. The point is, Series 80 is perfectly fine and there's no real reason to avoid it.

Going to a range and trying stuff out is one of the best recommendations you'll hear. It's easy to get lulled into the hype surrounding a gun (whether a 1911, Glock, XYZ flavor of the month, etc.), but you won't know if you like it until YOU try it. I've bought guns without shooting them and regretted it after finding that I hated the recoil, hated the controls, or similar. Your first gun will, no doubt, be what you compare any subsequent gun purchases against, so make sure you get something you really enjoy the first time. That alone can help you to save a bunch of money in the future, rather than sending you on a quest to find something that "just fits me better." Believe me, most of us have been there.

 

[CurseTheSky]

Extra moving parts that contribute to resistance of the trigger don't impact the feel?

Me thinks you've never shot a good series 70 trigger. Your 80 is worse, no ifs ands or buts.

I have a Series 70 with an amazing trigger from the Colt Custom Shop. My Series 80 XSE non-custom shop's trigger is 99% as good. So yes, the Series 80's trigger is worse, but only 1% worse. It's not really anything even worth writing about.

The Series 70 vs. Series 80 debate is largely overblown.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

While the second part of your response may be true, the first part is completely false. :thumbsdown:

It depends on what you care about.

If you're just yanking a 10-12lb stock trigger while plinking off rounds then it may not matter to you.

If you're looking for a nice crisp, smooth 4-5lb trigger without sending the gun off to have a bunch of parts polished/fitted then a series 70 is the way to go.

The additional series 80 parts create more tension and friction on the trigger assembly. This translates to a worse trigger pull. I've owned both for quite some time, and I am comfortable playing with the sear spring and surfaces on a series 70. I won't touch a series 80 trigger.

 

[JulesMaximus]

It depends on what you care about.

If you're just yanking a 10-12lb stock trigger while plinking off rounds then it may not matter to you.

If you're looking for a nice crisp, smooth 4-5lb trigger without sending the gun off to have a bunch of parts polished/fitted then a series 70 is the way to go.

The additional series 80 parts create more tension and friction on the trigger assembly. This translates to a worse trigger pull. I've owned both for quite some time, and I am comfortable playing with the sear spring and surfaces on a series 70. I won't touch a series 80 trigger.

Nor should a novice. However, any competent gunsmith should be able to handle this.

And a stock series 80 doesn't have a 10-12lb trigger.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Nor should someone any novice. However, any competent gunsmith should be able to handle this.

And a stock series 80 doesn't have a 10-12lb trigger.

Right. So we are in agreement that a series 70 is a much more easily and safely serviceable system.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Right. So we are in agreement that a series 70 is a much more easily and safely serviceable system.

I've never worked on either one but I'll take your word for it that you are not capable of working on a series 80 trigger. I know the guy who did the trigger job on my series 80 had no trouble with it and I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't tell the difference.

I had the trigger done on my gun because I was replacing the grip safety with a beaver tail style and I didn't like the short trigger my gun came with so I had a slightly longer skeletonized trigger installed at the same time. Kings Gun Works did the work, this was back in the mid 1990s. Figured, might as well do it all at once.

 

[HumblePie]

My recommendation on a pistol for anyone buying their first full size pistol is get one of the Tristar CZ 9mm clones. Cheap, excellent quality, and can't be beat for the price for a full size pistol.

Academy stores routinely sell them for $300-$400 bucks. There are many more in store to look at though.

http://www.academy.com/shop/browse/...?Ntk=All&Ntt=tristar&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial

I own one and it's the best pistol I have compared to anything else for the price which includes many high priced equivalent pistols.

 

[eng2d2]

You'll probably find the best prices/selection online, but you should still go to the biggest gun store nearby. Staff there will walk you through the process, give you advice, and you can actually hold any gun you want to see how it fits your hand. Who knows? You might find something you like even better (although being a 1911 fan myself I find it hard to believe ).

For 1911s specifically, this is also a great forum: http://forums.1911forum.com/


As for what to buy, there are about a gazillion different variations of 1911s in any number of configurations/caliber/quality levels. If you're dead set on a Colt-branded 1911 your options will be fairly limited and on the expensive side, but you'll get a quality firearm that'l last a lifetime in return. Beyond that, only way to get an idea of what you want is to know what you want the gun for and start looking. Here are a few of the more common options, listed roughly from least expensive to most expensive. Costs range from sub-$500 to around $1800 depending on model, note that brands often have a range of costs, some generally more expensive brands do have cheaper options. This list is not exhaustive.

https://us.armscor.com/products/
http://www.americantactical.us/8/catalog.html
http://www.ruger.com/products/sr1911/models.html
http://www.springfield-armory.com/1911-series/ (My personal favorite )
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_757754_-1_757752_757751_image
http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-1911.aspx
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-1911-traditional-models.aspx
http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols.aspx
http://cz-usa.com/product-category/dan-wesson-2/

There are also many high-end custom 1911 manufacturers that will charge you $2000-$5000 for about the best-made gun you could possibly buy, but I certainly wouldn't recommend them for a first gun even if you have the money. Go to them when you want to splurge (there's VERY little a $3000 1911 can do that a $500 one can't) and know exactly what you want.

You'll note that you cannot buy direct from the manufacturer. This is US federal law, which requires that all new guns be transferred through an FFL (Federal Firearms License) holder, aka a gun store for delivery. You can buy online, but the firearm must be shipped to a local FFL holder and then transferred to you after the background check, which will add about $20 in processing fees. In many states (but not all) you can buy from a private individual without restriction, other states require a background check anyway and still others restrict private sales altogether. Google your local laws, breaking any gun law is usually considered a felony. Safe bet is to go through a gun dealer.


As for where to buy, there's the afore-mentioned local gun store(s), but beyond that the most popular options are:

www.gunbroker.com
The eBay of guns, but a lot of gun stores post some of their inventory online. Look for sellers with good reviews and an FFL badge on their wares.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/Genie/Default.aspx
The Amazon of guns, but many models are often out of stock and sell out quickly when restocked.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php
Good selection and prices but has had some shady customer service issues in the past.

Beyond them there's a multitude of dealers who post their stuff online, just google "buy *insert model here* online" and any number of results will pop up. Do your homework though, some are more reputable than others.

Great links. Just checked my simple revolver has doubled in value. I didn't think mine was that special. S&W 357 with fixed sight.

I always wonder when people see it they want to buy my gun on the spot for the price I paid for .

 

[CurseTheSky]

It depends on what you care about.

If you're just yanking a 10-12lb stock trigger while plinking off rounds then it may not matter to you.

If you're looking for a nice crisp, smooth 4-5lb trigger without sending the gun off to have a bunch of parts polished/fitted then a series 70 is the way to go.

The additional series 80 parts create more tension and friction on the trigger assembly. This translates to a worse trigger pull. I've owned both for quite some time, and I am comfortable playing with the sear spring and surfaces on a series 70. I won't touch a series 80 trigger.

If you have a 1911 with a 10-12lb trigger, something is seriously, seriously wrong. Wrong to the point of being dangerous.

A smooth 4-5 lb trigger is easy to obtain as long as you have quality internals. S70 or S80 has nothing to do with it. It really only comes into play at all when you're looking at sub-2.5lb match triggers, and even then only to a small degree. If any smith tells you that they can't get an excellent (read: not identical) trigger with S80 parts, they are either a hardcore 1911 purist, lazy / selective, or incompetent. They may charge a bit more as there are more parts to tend to, but it shouldn't affect whether or not they can actually do it.

I realize you're talking about home gun smithing here, but even then the S80 parts shouldn't matter. If you can do a great trigger job on a S70, you should be able to do the same on an S80. If you're getting anywhere near the point where the S80 parts come into play by a noticeable degree (again, very light weight match triggers) then you should be sending it off to a reputable gun smith anyway.

I suppose I should clarify - I'm talking about quality 1911s with the understanding that the internals should be in good shape to begin with. If you're working with a really rough, really cheap paperweight where polishing might be needed on various surfaces just to get the thing to run in the first place, all bets are off. I personally wouldn't buy such a gun unless I was looking for a project. If the stock trigger is seriously in the 10-12lb range, I'd run far, far away.