To be a "world class" X (whatever X is) ...

[Alphathree33]

I was just watching a figure skating pairs video (World Champs) and the man was 33 years old.

Now he probably DID start skating when he was 4 years old, but it makes me wonder:

Do we as a society generally believe that you can "only" be the best at something if you started doing it as a small child?

At first glance, both evidence and common sense seem to suggest it. Most Olympians, musicians, and others who are very talented at their craft always have a story to tell that begins with "well, at age 4, my parents enrolled me in X."

Further, it seems to make sense that to be "the best", if you started at age 20, then even if you took 10 years to train, at age 30, you'd still be up against 20+ years of training for everyone else in that age group.

BUT... how do we really know that "starting young" is really the key factor? What if it's just dedication, practice, and of course natural ability, more or less regardless of age? (Obviously a 50 year old will begin having health problems and physical deterioration that would severely limit his chances of ever being "the best" at anything.)

What if it takes 10 years to train to one's "maximum" ability, and those can be from ages 4 to 14, or ages 20 to 30... but we as a society don't believe that because no one ever actually TRIES to do it starting at age 20.

By 20 years old, if you don't have some athletic/musical skill that has long-since been developed, most (99.99%?) of people simply say, "oh well", get married, have kids, and never learn a damned thing ever again.

Your thoughts? Counterexamples?

 

[Nik]

I'd venture to say that most "world class" X achievers are pretty prideful about it to the point where they're almost stuck up about their sport. Most of the folks at that level of achievement (coaches, critics, judges, etc) are probably so pretentious and better-than-you that you almost need a pedigree showing that you've been doing this your whole life for them to acknowledge your level of skill to their level, whether it is or not.

I highly doubt some dude showing up in his mid 40's who's been skating for 11 months and able to pull off tricks at the "world class" level would even have a shot at world events simply because he didn't "earn his way to the top" if you know what I mean.

 

[yowolabi]

It's a good question. I think another aspect of it is that you need excellent teachers and trainers to get to be world class. If you show great skill at a young age, those teachers will find you and someone else will end up paying the bill. If you want that kind of teacher when you're 20, you're going to have a lot of trouble finding someone, and if you do you'll have to pay a fortune out of your own pocket.

What 20 year old will have enough confidence in their ability and enough cash that they can spend all their time and money training for something they currently are not very good at? For those kids, training is their only job. An adult can't spend their entire 20's training for something that they probably won't reach. Don't forget that of all the kids training, most of them still don't become world class. There's no reason to suspect that the percentages are any more favorable to someone who starts in their 20s

 

[Agentbolt]

The math isn't favorable. People hit their physical peak between 24-28 years old. Even if you're madly skilled, most of the things we're talking about require you to be able to do them in your sleep, so it's going to take years and years of training. If you started at 20, you'd maybe have the skills and mindset down to be able to do these things at a high enough level, but you'll be competing with 24-28 year old who started when they were younger and have the advantage physically. It'd be tough.

 

[mooglemania85]

No. I've met plenty of people who were once nice but turned into a world class asshole once they received a little bit of power + authority.

 

[RKS]

Originally posted by: Alphathree33
I was just watching a figure skating pairs video ....

sorry, can't read the rest. 😀

 

[daveymark]

see michael jordan's attempt at baseball for your answer.

 

[nageov3t]

most models don't start till 14-15.

(yet another reason why america's next top model is so funny and fake 😛)

 

[gwai lo]

I think drum corps is a pretty good example of being "world class", but through dedication/focus and hard work. Sure most of the kids now are music performance majors, but regular kids can jump right into the game and still make a finalist.

 

[vi edit]

I would say that the more muscle memorization and hand/eye coordination the activity takes, the more important it is that you start young. This would include things like golf, tennis and baseball.

Things that are more training & endurance related are less of a factor of age and more of a training/work ethic. These include sports like distance running and cycling.

Activities that are more weighted towards speed, reflexes, power/explosiveness have a window of opportunity that usually starts to close down around 35 or so.

All these also have to take genetic dispositions into equation as well. Some people are just born with an upper hand for a given activity. If you don't have the right genes for an activity you will likely never be world class at it.

 

[arrfep]

I think it truly depends on the X. As mentioned above, for many sports like skating/baseball/tennis/gymnastics, you need to start young when your body and mind are both flexible. If you can't do the splits when your body is fully developed, it will be extremely hard, if not impossible, to gain that ability. However, if you start when you're four, and your joints are still loose, your body grows into the ability, instead of vice versa.

Lots of world class talents also depend on the naivete/ignorance of a being a child. No matter how much you tell me I can do a triple lutz, as a 26 year old, I know I can't do it, and that pretty much kills the learning process there. As an older being, you are governed by logic and reason and fear...3 things that usually convince Joe Schmoe that these tasks are impossible for all but the "world class" athletes.

Now say you could conquer your mind, and fight through the pain of training, and I believe a person can do both. Then, I think it's quite possible to advance to that level in quite a few fields, those that don't require decades of coordination or muscle-memory development.

During the Sydney Olympics in 2000, a few friends and I got into an argument after I said that if given unlimited resources and nothing else to spend my time doing, I would qualify for the 2008 Olympics in some event, say mountain biking. Look at the Jamaican bobsledders, or Geena Davis. Or read about Dean Karnazes, who is considered by most to be the Ultramarathoner, and he didn't even start doing it till he was 30.

All in all, I think anyone with an ounce of ability has the potential to rise to world class level, but lack of both the resources and the desire will keep most all from doing so.

 

[Ns1]

personally, i think it's a time issue

when you're younger, you don't have anything else to do besides (basically) what your parents force you to do. coupled with low amount of responsibility = tons of time to practice. when you're young it's pretty easy to put on 8 hours on violin, guitar, whatever, a day in practice. but when you get older, ESPECIALLY after college, it's hard to dedicate that kind of time when you got things like work/bills/relationships to worry about

 

[NanoStuff]

This only applies to motor skills and coordination not cognition. You will skate, play the guitar and pronounce learned languages better if you start early, but you won't write better software, have a stronger vocabulary or compose better music, for example. Well, you probably will because you've been doing it longer, but there is no boundary cap for those who have not.

 

[Lonyo]

Well, you don't need to start golfing when you're 4 to become world class, I'd venture that much.

 

[Chiller2]

I wouldn't say by 4 but I would think on most things if you didn't start at least by your early teens you will never be world class.

 

[rocadelpunk]

I think lots of people could become world class eating champions out of the blue : P

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: loki8481
most models don't start till 14-15.

(yet another reason why america's next top model is so funny and fake 😛)

thats not a good example. being good looking is not a skill. you're either born with it or you're not. it's not like you can practice at being good looking.

 

[MrChad]

Acquiring expertise in many skills requires 10 years or 10,000 hours of "deliberate practice". Search for Ericsson's study on deliberate practice and expert performance for more info.

 

[BillGates]

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
No. I've met plenty of people who were once nice but turned into a world class asshole once they received a little bit of power + authority.

winner!

 

[TecHNooB]

Originally posted by: BillGates

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
No. I've met plenty of people who were once nice but turned into a world class asshole once they received a little bit of power + authority.

winner!

lmao!

Gilbert Arenas started basketball when he was 12.

 

[JayHu]

I agree with the muscle memory aspect that was mentioned.
If you have talent, it's okay to start later. But if you start younger you will have a better muscle memory, the pathways will have been developed longer.
I can think of a few swimmers who started later and became pretty good. Ed Moses immediately springs to mind.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: loki8481
most models don't start till 14-15.

(yet another reason why america's next top model is so funny and fake 😛)

thats not a good example. being good looking is not a skill. you're either born with it or you're not. it's not like you can practice at being good looking.

knowing how to give a great BJ to a casting director takes tons of skill 😛

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: BillGates

Originally posted by: mooglemania85
No. I've met plenty of people who were once nice but turned into a world class asshole once they received a little bit of power + authority.

winner!

lmao!

Gilbert Arenas started basketball when he was 12.

Tim Duncan didn't start until he was in High School.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I just looked up a few world renowned guitarists.

->Jimmy Page first picked up the guitar when he was 12 years old and although he took a few lessons in nearby Kingston, was largely self-taught.
->[Jimmy Hendrix] At age 12, he received his first guitar, an acoustic to replace the broom stick he would strum like one
->At the age of 14, Slash was given his first guitar by his grandmother. Reveling in the artistry of his hard rock idols, he would spend several hours a day practicing.
->Even though (Stevie Ray) Vaughan initially wanted to play the drums as his primary instrument, Michael Quinn gave him a guitar when he was eight years old.

I guess pre-/early teens is good enough to be a guitar god.

 

[alkemyst]

It depends on the "X".

For athletics there is a lot going for the guy that starts earliest. It has a lot to due with muscle/bone/tendon development and reflexes.

For other things many prove better later in life esp. in those where the parents are really just using the kid as a tool.