Question To Alder Lake or Not To Alder Lake?

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Collider

Senior member
Jan 20, 2008
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I'm well overdue for a new system and need upgrade advice. My current system specs are listed in the signature, its a battle tested X58 system that's been with me since 2009.

Frankly I am amazed that this platform lasted me almost 12 years. I've done everything I can to upgrade it, maxing out ram, swapping i7 920 for an overclocked X5675 and going NVME for OS/Boot drive. But it's starting to show its age and I need an upgrade.

My workloads are mostly software development with heavy multitasking. Usually have a ton of things running, multiple Visual Studio and IntelliJ instances, 1-2 emulators/VMs, 50+ chrome windows, MS office stuff and tons of other apps running simultaneously.

Originally was thinking to go the Threadripper route (3960X or 3970X) but it being a dead end platform doesn't make much sense at this point. Zen 3 doesn't look any better with Zen 4 coming next year.

Alder Lake 12900K + overclock seems like an obvious choice, but my concern is its only 16 cores. Yes I know I'm getting by with only 6 cores now and 12900K is roughly 4x times faster, but still.

What other options should I consider? Should I wait for Zen 3 or Alder Lake Xeons or stick it out and wait for Zen 4?

Thanks in advance!
(sorry for a long thread)
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,169
2,830
126
If you run stock 241 watt its overclocking IMO (and I am not alone here) and yes, you need serious cooling for that. My fastest 5950x uses a 612-2 $40 coolermaster and works fine @100% load 24/7

I say the 5950x is the better option here.
Yeah, I get it. It's something to cling on to. It's satiating.
 

kschendel

Senior member
Aug 1, 2018
261
190
116
I made a transition from a W3680 (pretty close to an X5675) to a 2700X a couple years ago to a 5800X recently. My advice to the OP is don't wait, do it now and be very happy. Waiting means just that many more months of half-speed performance and all you get at the other end is a few percentage points.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Why do you care if the platform has no upgrade path?
It doesn't seem you update that often...
Because CPU isn't the only upgrade options for a computer. The CPUs perform so similar, the best thing to do is to look at the upgrade path for other components. It's not like he has been running the SSD for 12 years. So if he goes with the most current platform, he can upgrade to PCIe 5.0 cards/drives and faster DDR5 as it comes along. Things that don't require a whole motherboard swap.
 

kschendel

Senior member
Aug 1, 2018
261
190
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IMO, PCIE 5.0 will only be of interest for those running out of total I/O bandwidth. For software development today (and IMO the foreseeable future), even PCIe 4.0 is a non-event. I only notice the difference between my SATA SSD's and my 4.0 980 Pro when doing 3+ hour tests and then it's a matter of 10 minutes or less.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Wow thank you guys for all the replies. I honestly did not anticipate so much useful feedback. A lot to go through and read up on proposed options. Will follow up shortly.
If you decide to wait, you could go with Optane storage(though bad advice coz $$$) to get even speedier response times.

1637266655623.png

Compare with your M2 drive and especially note the MIX RND4K IOPS figure. That could give you quite a boost in multitasking workloads, especially when heavily loaded Chrome tabs go into a paging frenzy. The pauses will be reduced to minimum.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,178
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Typically compiling is helped by large caches, so if that is your main productivity task, Zen3d in Q12022 might be a really good option. Alderlake is a solid option as well, but be prepared to spend more on cooling and the platform if you are going for the top end performance.
 
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Hotrod2go

Senior member
Nov 17, 2021
298
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Yes, I keep saying this, but again, the 12900k is WAY too overclocked from the factory, and hot. The 12700k and 12600k if left alone or even down clocked (wattage wise) are OK.

Alder has some room to improve before its "the thing to buy" IMO.
Agreed, I just recently upgraded my gaming rig coming from Zen+ & only a few weeks before official ADL release. Thought it too risky to jump on board with new tech like hybrid cpu architecture that only really shines in win11 & even then one would need DDR5 to bring out the best of that platform. I got over the "early adaptor" disease many yrs ago in this game.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,582
10,785
136
just a quick note, they are recommending 360mm water coolers for the top end alder lake.

Let's keep in mind that OP is coming from a likely overclocked X58! Those things could get hot when pushed to their limits. Maybe not 260W+ hot but they could get up there.

Stock vs stock maybe the 5950X is the better option, but if he is willing to cool the thing, eventually I think the 12900k would be the better option given enough power.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
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Yes, I keep saying this, but again, the 12900k is WAY too overclocked from the factory, and hot. The 12700k and 12600k if left alone or even down clocked (wattage wise) are OK.

Alder has some room to improve before its "the thing to buy" IMO.

I'd put 12600k and 12700k as the top gaming options w/DDR4 (3600 Gear 1), but that is a real problem right now because GPUs are so ungodly expensive that it's just not a realistic buy for most people. And if someone is just trying to make an old 1080 or something work, then even an 8600K, Ryzen 2600X or whatever is more than fine for typical settings.

12900K is too hot and hungry at top mode, it feels like 12900EE, for us old heads. 👨🏻‍🦳

I mean, at least it's fast, but so many negatives right now.

-Expensive DDR5
-Low stock DDR5
-Future DDR5 will inevitably be hugely better
-Basically zero PCIe 5.0 usability at present
-Mobos are $$$
-Cooling expense for proper 240W+ means 360mm AIO or better yet something like an EK custom loop double rad type setup for a proper 5.5Ghz all core 450W monster setup ($$$$$$$$$$$)
-Being that Alder feels a bit like a beta, I'm confident Raptor will be a huge improvement
-W11 Growing Pains all around
-For MT heavy, 5950X is functionally equal. Sure you give up some peak ST capabilities, but the older Am4 platform + DDR4 are tried, true, and more affordable on balance.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Let's keep in mind that OP is coming from a likely overclocked X58! Those things could get hot when pushed to their limits. Maybe not 260W+ hot but they could get up there.

Stock vs stock maybe the 5950X is the better option, but if he is willing to cool the thing, eventually I think the 12900k would be the better option given enough power.
OP didn't specify his preference for wanting or keeping a system overclocked 24/7. Maybe his current system is OC'ed out of sheer necessity. Most people would prefer a stable non-OC'ed system, running at reasonable temperatures and using less electricity. One reason why Apple's M1 has impressed a lot of people outside the Apple ecosystem. I know if Apple would give me the option of a price competitive x86 CPU with the same performance and power characteristics as the M1 Max, I would definitely bite. I would love to experience something that offers snappy performance yet the fans don't start blowing like a frickin' jet engine when I push it to the limit. The older I get, the more I seem to treasure and cherish quietness.
 

epsilon84

Golden Member
Aug 29, 2010
1,142
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How much headroom is there to overclock the 12900K, really? I'm pretty sure it's already close to maxed out at stock settings, sure you might get a few hundred MHz out of it with a top end AIO, but are you really going to notice the difference between 4.9GHz and 5.2GHz?

To the OP, the days of 50% overclocks are long gone. AMD and Intel run their chips pretty close to the ceiling, and that is especially so in the case of the 12900K which IMHO is basically 'pre overclocked'. If the 5950X didn't exist, it wouldn't have been clocked so aggressively and run at 240W under load.
 

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
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-For MT heavy, 5950X is functionally equal. Sure you give up some peak ST capabilities, but the older Am4 platform + DDR4 are tried, true, and more affordable on balance.

Yeah, but considering his primary usecase is coding, then I'd at least wait for the benches of the V-Cache part. Gamers Nexus said their Chromium compilation benchmark is essentially a cache benchmark. I do believe in some cases the extra 64MB of cache might cut compile-times to half.

The downside is what you mentioned though. DDR4 and AM4, as for Alder Lake OP can eventually slot in 128GB of very fast DDR5 and a PCIe 5.0 SSD.

Bear in mind that future memory clocks will almost certainly be limited by the memory controller as is the case usually with first implementations (though they can still be used to trade in for better CAS latency at lower frequency). And PCIe 4.0 SSD bandwidth will probably not be a limiting factor even in 5 years (though who knows what happens after that).
 
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JWMiddleton

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2000
5,686
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Buyer's Remorse is very hard to avoid these days! You just need to get what works for you and be happy with it. In Jan 2021 I built my current system (in my sig) with an upgrade from an i7-4790K. The i9-10850K is a lot more CPU than I need, but I could easily afford it at $399. Here we are just 10 months later and I am already 2 generations behind. I doubt I'll get 12 years out of this system, but it might last longer than I will since I'll be 76 next month. :)
 
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I doubt I'll get 12 years out of this system, but it might last longer than I will since I'll be 76 next month. :)
1 KG chocolate per week and moderate port wine is the key to long life, my friend. I pray you get to see a consumer 128 thread CPU in your lifetime for $399.

Jeanne Calment - Wikipedia

She enjoyed chocolate, sometimes indulging in a kilogram (2.2 lb) per week.[39] After the meal, she smoked a Dunhill cigarette and drank a small amount of port wine.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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My workloads are mostly software development with heavy multitasking. Usually have a ton of things running, multiple Visual Studio and IntelliJ instances, 1-2 emulators/VMs, 50+ chrome windows, MS office stuff and tons of other apps running simultaneously.

Check out the configuration of the review system in my post: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/alder-lake-official-thread.2598496/post-40636712

This will likely offer you the best ST performance right now.