TL vs IS 350

[Vortex22]

I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to buy a new ride and I'm really trying to decide what I want. I'm down to these two cars. If it's a TL I want an '07 because they were refreshed that year. I would be fine with a 06' IS (first year of production).

After looking at many examples of both and doing a few test drives:

TL Pros:
Availability - There are a lot more for sale, so I'll have more choice.
Better road feedback/driving feel (not counting the FWD steering). It feels like I'm driving on the road instead of floating above it like in the IS.
Interior room - a lot more than the IS
Price - TLs tend to be ~2k cheaper compared to a same year Lexus.

TL cons:
FWD This is the big one. Steering feels heavy and there's a lot of torque steer.
A bit large for my taste, I want a smallish nimble car.
Slower. Even the Type-S is slower than the IS (and all the S examples around here are really expensive, ruling them out)
Interior quality - I think the Lexus is superior, plus it seems like everyone who bought a TL was colorblind and picked the ugliest color combo.

IS 350 Pros:
RWD
Looks (I like the looks of the TL but I think the IS is the best looking sedan on the road)
Very nice interior
Power/Speed (306 HP RWD vs 258 HP FWD) The IS is the faster car in all situations.
Overall size - I like the BMW 3ish size of the car

IS 350 Cons:
Price - More expensive than the comparable Acura.
Interior room - The back seats are nigh unusable.
Driving feel - It's very disconnected from the road and kind of numb. It's still agile, there just isn't any feedback from the wheel or the pedals.
Availability - There are very few IS 350's for sale in my area, finding a good example has been a huge hassle.

Another thing that I didn't include because it may be a moot point: The TL is available with a 6 speed manual and the IS is auto only, however there are exactly 0 manual TLs for sale around here with the exception of a very expensive Type-S.


Any opinions from current/previous owners? There are a couple 07' TLs that just popped up at some local small dealers today, and I'm going to check them out this afternoon.

 

[Arkaign]

My brother has had 3 TLs, an '03, an '05, and now an '08 S. They are great cars. There is one holy hell of a difference in performance though with the IS350, it's a ton faster. I like the 335i better in every way to the IS350, but the reliability issues with the high pressure fuel pump and whatnot make me somewhat unlikely to seriously recommend one.

Of the two, for a daily driver that you're going to live with, I think the TL takes it. They are very well put together and have GREAT options for the price. As fast as the IS350 is, it's disappointing after actually driving one, it's incredibly uninvolving.

Have you considered other options? There are some minty late-model G35 coupes out there with 6MT and ~300hp. If I had the $ today for a car in the range you're speaking of, I'd have to get the G, it's the best compromise of all factors, and they've been pretty bulletproof mechanically. Lots of Nismo/Stillen goodies as well.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Test drive the TL SH-AWD with the 6 speed manual, steering feel is a bit better than the crappy FWD and 0-60 is 5.6 sec, within spitting distance of the IS350. (IMHO Acura's outdated 5 speed automatic is a slow POS, it's serously holding back the 3.7 liter engine) The IS350 is much smaller, back seat is useless, AND you can easily get the TL SH-AWD 6 speed for about $37000, $5000 under msrp. (Trust me, it's easy, you just have to be willing to shop a bit) Can't do that in the IS350 as they've seriously killed production. The electric steering (better than Lexus, but definately worse than BMW), fuel economy, and the ugly "butter face" killed the TL for me, everything else about the car is a great value.

 

[Vortex22]

Test drive the TL SH-AWD with the 6 speed manual, steering feel is a bit better than the crappy FWD and 0-60 is 5.6 sec, within spitting distance of the IS350. (IMHO Acura's outdated 5 speed automatic is a slow POS, it's serously holding back the 3.7 liter engine) The IS350 is much smaller, back seat is useless, AND you can easily get the TL SH-AWD 6 speed for about $37000, $5000 under msrp. (Trust me, it's easy, you just have to be willing to shop a bit) Can't do that in the IS350 as they've seriously killed production. The electric steering (better than Lexus, but definately worse than BMW), fuel economy, and the ugly "butter face" killed the TL for me, everything else about the car is a great value.

The cars I'm looking for are in the $22-25k range, a few years old. A new one with AWD is definitely out of reach. I really don't like the looks of the new metal beak TL's anyway. I really wish Honda would stop being so stubborn and start using direct injection in their engines, and make a true RWD car.

A new IS would be in the low-mid 40s, which is ridiculousness considering it's basically been the exact same car since 06.

 

[Vortex22]

My brother has had 3 TLs, an '03, an '05, and now an '08 S. They are great cars. There is one holy hell of a difference in performance though with the IS350, it's a ton faster. I like the 335i better in every way to the IS350, but the reliability issues with the high pressure fuel pump and whatnot make me somewhat unlikely to seriously recommend one.

Of the two, for a daily driver that you're going to live with, I think the TL takes it. They are very well put together and have GREAT options for the price. As fast as the IS350 is, it's disappointing after actually driving one, it's incredibly uninvolving.

Have you considered other options? There are some minty late-model G35 coupes out there with 6MT and ~300hp. If I had the $ today for a car in the range you're speaking of, I'd have to get the G, it's the best compromise of all factors, and they've been pretty bulletproof mechanically. Lots of Nismo/Stillen goodies as well.

I really like the 335 as well but, like you said, I am almost guaranteed to have reliability issues with one and I don't want to drop this much cash on something that is going to constantly be a money vacuum.

Not a huge fan of the G35. I have two friends who own G35's already, and I've done a lot of riding in them, as well as some driving. I really don't know what it is, but I just don't like the car for some reason. They both apparently get horrible gas mileage as well, 16-18 mpg according to their owners.

 

[Imdmn04]

My brother has had 3 TLs, an '03, an '05, and now an '08 S. They are great cars. There is one holy hell of a difference in performance though with the IS350, it's a ton faster. I like the 335i better in every way to the IS350, but the reliability issues with the high pressure fuel pump and whatnot make me somewhat unlikely to seriously recommend one.

Of the two, for a daily driver that you're going to live with, I think the TL takes it. They are very well put together and have GREAT options for the price. As fast as the IS350 is, it's disappointing after actually driving one, it's incredibly uninvolving.

Have you considered other options? There are some minty late-model G35 coupes out there with 6MT and ~300hp. If I had the $ today for a car in the range you're speaking of, I'd have to get the G, it's the best compromise of all factors, and they've been pretty bulletproof mechanically. Lots of Nismo/Stillen goodies as well.

BMW has extended the warranty on the HSFP to 100k miles.

Everything runs pretty well on my 07 335i so far, it's been 3 years and my HSFP hasn't died on me, yet (knock on wood).

There are occasionally software glitches, like moonroof jam warnings, but e90post.com helps me reset these little things without making a trip to the dealer.

I test drove the IS350 when I was shopping back then, it was nice, but the 2nd gen IS are just too girly-ish. The driving dynamics felt rather, well, Lexus like, which is good if you are buying a luxury cruiseboat, but not for a sports sedan.

A good alternative is to look for a 07 G35, that thing has BMW-like driving dynamics, and Japanese reliability.

 

[Pneumothorax]

BMW has extended the warranty on the HSFP to 100k miles.
Everything runs pretty well on my 07 335i so far, it's been 3 years and my HSFP hasn't died on me, yet (knock on wood).

There are occasionally software glitches, like moonroof jam warnings, but e90post.com helps me reset these little things without making a trip to the dealer.

I test drove the IS350 when I was shopping back then, it was nice, but the 2nd gen IS are just too girly-ish. The driving dynamics felt rather, well, Lexus like, which is good if you are buying a luxury cruiseboat, but not for a sports sedan.

A good alternative is to look for a 07 G35, that thing has BMW-like driving dynamics, and Japanese reliability.

The latest 943 HPFP is looking to be reliable so far. Besides BMW has a 10 Year/100K warranty on the part. IF this latest gen HPFP proves to be reliable, I would consider looking at used 335i's being a good deal.

 

[Vortex22]

Either way, the 335 is still a bit too expensive for me right now.

 

[JulesMaximus]

My wife and I own an IS and the back seats are actually quite comfortable if you are riding behind someone who isn't over 5'4" tall...hell, I'd rate it roomy in fact. If you're trying to squeeze in behind someone who is 6' though you might as well forget about getting 4 in there comfortably. The one thing I don't like about the IS are the front seats, they really aren't very comfortable, they are very narrow in the seat area and the bolstering on the sides of the seat cushion only makes this worse without really giving any support for sport driving.

I've driven the Acura and quite frankly it isn't in the same league as the IS350. It's a nice car but FWD? Really? No thanks. I'd go with the Infiniti G37 sedan personally.

 

[StageLeft]

I'd go with the Infiniti G37 sedan personally.

This.

Or lease prius.

 

[Vortex22]

I'm 6' 2''

I think I'm just gonna lease a Prius, all this thinking is making my head hurt!

 

[amdhunter]

This.

Or lease prius.

Gas mileage is overrated. Get an RX-8.

 

[Arkaign]

Gas mileage is overrated. Get an RX-8.

So he can have a great-handling but slow car with horrendous fuel economy?

??????????

 

[jpeyton]

The IS350 feels noticeably smaller on the inside, which you might not care about.

 

[amdhunter]

So he can have a great-handling but slow car with horrendous fuel economy?

??????????

Hey, it sounds fast.

 

[amdhunter]

Either way, the 335 is still a bit too expensive for me right now.

Then the IS350 is it. It's much closer to the 335 than you probably think, and it is a great looking car, especially if you can somehow manage to find the F-Sport rims.

 

[KIAman]

Strange you like a smallish car but care about back seat space. Anyways, if you must choose between the 2, the IS350 hands down. How important is road feel to you? The reason IS350 is so isolated is because it is supposed to be comfortable and quiet, aka luxury.

I love the G35/37 looks and performance but, no offense to owners, the engine just doesn't sound right in any RPM. From 20 feet+ away, it sounds fantastic but sitting inside, even tooling around town in low-rpm, it sounds like a tractor. BMWs are quiet as hell until you reach around 3kish RPM then the engine likes to sing a sweet inline-6 sound. Beautiful. The IS350 is much like the BMW, it opens up at higher RPM and sounds muffled-sporty.

If you care about interior bling factor, the IS350 has it all as well, the nice looking dash and gauges will get all the prepubescent teens all excited about fast and the furious.

Edited: Added paragraphs to remove wall-o-text look.

 

[hans007]

i drove the is350 around when they came out (2005 or so) at some lexus test drive event. I was debating getting an IS250 instead of a TSX at the time (ended up getting the TSX, the IS wasnt particularly better and cost way more )

i think the TL is really the better car outside of the FWD / RWD thing. granted the IS is faster, but when you drive it it doesnt feel fast at all.

it also has horribly numb steering and brakes and throttle. it is like driving a car made of anesthetic. I've heard some attempt was made to fix the electronic steering in 2008 or 2009 models, but havent driven it but lexus claims they did something.

that said, i'm sure it can outhandle a TL at the limits. Also if you are any kind of tall it is a pretty bad car. i'm 5'11 and just getting into the car notice there isnt great headroom , the roof is pretty low even in the drivers seat. the back seat is horrible it might as well be a coupe. i believe the rear leg room was actually less than my G35 coupe at the time as far as the spec sheet says. its like 37.8" or something, if you back the front seat back to your height (or well my height) the person behind you couldn't actaully have legs.

It is too bad the TL was not RWD, its got a decent engine, the interior is very intuitively laid out and fairly high quality (the IS is a little better though especially ISes with nav, the non nav looks terrible on the center stack). TLs trunk is bigger and folds down for cargo also. ISes I think cannot fold down at all (i am not sure if this is actaully much of a concern for you, but it is something annoying you might care about)

I do have to agree with KIAman, my first gen G35 did not sound very good inside (there was also massive tire roar to the point it was slightly difficult to have a normal conversation in the caR) especially if you were flooring it. the new G37s sound even worse above 4000 rpm or so. the burble from the exhaust sounds great but the actual engine not so much. the IS350 is a lot smoother than the G35 its got that going for it as well. and better mpg than the TL / G35 by a long shot.

 

[sdifox]

IS= dah fail

 

[MJinZ]

I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to buy a new ride and I'm really trying to decide what I want. I'm down to these two cars. If it's a TL I want an '07 because they were refreshed that year. I would be fine with a 06' IS (first year of production).

After looking at many examples of both and doing a few test drives:

TL Pros:
Availability - There are a lot more for sale, so I'll have more choice.
Better road feedback/driving feel (not counting the FWD steering). It feels like I'm driving on the road instead of floating above it like in the IS.
Interior room - a lot more than the IS
Price - TLs tend to be ~2k cheaper compared to a same year Lexus.

TL cons:
FWD This is the big one. Steering feels heavy and there's a lot of torque steer.
A bit large for my taste, I want a smallish nimble car.
Slower. Even the Type-S is slower than the IS (and all the S examples around here are really expensive, ruling them out)
Interior quality - I think the Lexus is superior, plus it seems like everyone who bought a TL was colorblind and picked the ugliest color combo.

IS 350 Pros:
RWD
Looks (I like the looks of the TL but I think the IS is the best looking sedan on the road)
Very nice interior
Power/Speed (306 HP RWD vs 258 HP FWD) The IS is the faster car in all situations.
Overall size - I like the BMW 3ish size of the car

IS 350 Cons:
Price - More expensive than the comparable Acura.
Interior room - The back seats are nigh unusable.
Driving feel - It's very disconnected from the road and kind of numb. It's still agile, there just isn't any feedback from the wheel or the pedals.
Availability - There are very few IS 350's for sale in my area, finding a good example has been a huge hassle.

Another thing that I didn't include because it may be a moot point: The TL is available with a 6 speed manual and the IS is auto only, however there are exactly 0 manual TLs for sale around here with the exception of a very expensive Type-S.


Any opinions from current/previous owners? There are a couple 07' TLs that just popped up at some local small dealers today, and I'm going to check them out this afternoon.

An '07 TL is not comparable to a Lexus IS350. IT is however, comparable to my Toyota Camry. Comparable as in, slower and handles worse.

So get an '09 or '10 TL, they are better than the IS350s in a few ways (SH-AWD, room, handling feel) but worse in others (acceleration, ride, grip).

 

[Arkaign]

An '07 TL is not comparable to a Lexus IS350. IT is however, comparable to my Toyota Camry. Comparable as in, slower and handles worse.

So get an '09 or '10 TL, they are better than the IS350s in a few ways (SH-AWD, room, handling feel) but worse in others (acceleration, ride, grip).

Hah, no.

 

[MJinZ]

Hah, no.

Handling may be a bit better, but acceleration is slightly worse. A V6 Camry will out 0-60 a last gen TL (by 0.1-0.5 seconds, depending on what publication you ask). The Type-S will be a bit faster or on par.

 

[dbk]

The cabin room on the IS was so much smaller than what I expected

 

[Vortex22]

i drove the is350 around when they came out (2005 or so) at some lexus test drive event. I was debating getting an IS250 instead of a TSX at the time (ended up getting the TSX, the IS wasnt particularly better and cost way more )

i think the TL is really the better car outside of the FWD / RWD thing. granted the IS is faster, but when you drive it it doesnt feel fast at all.

it also has horribly numb steering and brakes and throttle. it is like driving a car made of anesthetic. I've heard some attempt was made to fix the electronic steering in 2008 or 2009 models, but havent driven it but lexus claims they did something.

that said, i'm sure it can outhandle a TL at the limits. Also if you are any kind of tall it is a pretty bad car. i'm 5'11 and just getting into the car notice there isnt great headroom , the roof is pretty low even in the drivers seat. the back seat is horrible it might as well be a coupe. i believe the rear leg room was actually less than my G35 coupe at the time as far as the spec sheet says. its like 37.8" or something, if you back the front seat back to your height (or well my height) the person behind you couldn't actaully have legs.

It is too bad the TL was not RWD, its got a decent engine, the interior is very intuitively laid out and fairly high quality (the IS is a little better though especially ISes with nav, the non nav looks terrible on the center stack). TLs trunk is bigger and folds down for cargo also. ISes I think cannot fold down at all (i am not sure if this is actaully much of a concern for you, but it is something annoying you might care about)

I do have to agree with KIAman, my first gen G35 did not sound very good inside (there was also massive tire roar to the point it was slightly difficult to have a normal conversation in the caR) especially if you were flooring it. the new G37s sound even worse above 4000 rpm or so. the burble from the exhaust sounds great but the actual engine not so much. the IS350 is a lot smoother than the G35 its got that going for it as well. and better mpg than the TL / G35 by a long shot.

When I drove the IS, it did feel somewhat numb, but it didn't feel slow at all. It felt really fast off the line. It's fast and nimble, you just can't feel it from inside the cabin. I'm 6' 2'' and I didn't really have any problem with the space in the front. (I'd only use the back for short people or really short trips.)

The TL didn't feel like the heavy accord that it is while I was driving it, but it was undeniably slower. The interior room is a plus, but like I said before, it's not a huge issue for me since I will almost never be driving with more than one passenger.

If someone offered to give me one or the other for free, I would take the IS no doubt. I was originally looking for just an IS, but the search was taking so long and getting so frustrating that I started looking at other things.

So get an '09 or '10 TL, they are better than the IS350s in a few ways (SH-AWD, room, handling feel) but worse in others (acceleration, ride, grip).

$$$$$$$
Plus, I really don't like the look of the new ones. Acura-beak is ugly.

 

[Vortex22]

Wonder if I can get them to down at all on this one... It's exactly the options and color I want.