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Tired of people who say college degrees are useless....

T

The Wildcard

Platinum Member
Okay after being inspired by a thread in the General Hardwar forum, I'd like to report my thread about why I think people who say a college degree in Computer Science, for example, is useless and the best way to go is with an MCSE certification or some sort of certification.

So here it is...

And for all you people who say that college degrees are useless, i hope you say the exact same thing when they lay you off in a couple of years when all this economic boom begins to level off like it has begun to now. why?

You have a CS major graduate, with a 4 year, well rounded education who has taken classes that deal with also, math, communication and technical writing skills. That gives him the ability to do a wide variety of jobs, and not just programming.

Then you have a guy with ONLY an MCSE certification degree and blew off college cuz he thought it was a waste of time. Sure he gets a job and life is going well. Earning lets say.....45-50k a year?

Then one day, his boss tells him that his company needs to trim down a bit. Who do you think they are gonna lay off? A CS graduate, who FOR MUCH LESS THAN 45K-50K can be trained to obtain an MCSE certification? OR a guy with only an MCSE certification who has not taken any programming classes, no math or communication or technical writing classes as well.

Now of course some of you might argue, that well the company could send those MCSE employees to a couple of programming seminars. Hahah, and AT BEST, these employees would onlt have a BASIC knowledge of C++. Do you guys know the kind of programming a 4 year college student learns???? Hahah lemme tell you...much, much more than BASIC C++. I am talking about projects that deal with anything with computer graphics, databases, network programming and even operating systems. I'd like to see somebody do that with a couple of seminars or maybe a " Teach yourself C++ in 24hrs " book.

Now if some of you beg to differ, please, i'd like to discuss.
 
No way! In fact I have the upmost respect for anybody who is constantly striving to learn new skills my reading books, such as learning Unix or html, etc.

But reading books doesn't replace a 4 year college education.
 
A College degree isn't proof of what you've learned. It's proof that you can learn.
The latter will prove more useful than any one or two classes.

BTW - I graduated w/ a BS in CS w/ a pyschology minor. I'll be available for consultation when all of these paper MCSE's are fired and are on the edge of depression 😛
 
I know, I'm kidding. 🙂 (But I AM trying to learn C++ via a book. 🙂)

However, to be O(n)T...I agree with you, however I think the reason some people don't is that they can't see what will happen AFTER this booming internet age we're in now.
 
Oh my god Konichawa, you took the words right out of my mouth!! I mean, the recent boom has only lasted like what? 4-5 years? Maybe even less. I dunno about most people, but i'd like to hold a job longer than that.

Furthermore, lets not forgot the recent bankruptcy of so many " dot.com " companies. Yes, those same " dot.com " companies that offered " 60k-70k" saleries and great "stock options" and some even offered cars and other unbelivable benefits. where are they now? haha no use in having stock options in a company that goes bankrupt in less than a year....lol.


BTW....i learned basic C from a book in high school cuz my teacher was horrible, lol.
 
I think Chad brings up a good point here. What happens after the big booming internet age? People who can do nothing but make web pages and stuff will be out of jobs and have no skills.

I think getting a broad/wide ranged education is a better way to go, as opposed to simply grabbing some "certification".

I don't have any of this (college or MSCE) yet, but I'm on my last year of high school and plan to go into Digital & Computer Systems in College next year. It's either that or Computer Science, but I'd prefer not to take Computer Science since it is only programming, while the other is working with actual hardware and stuff, and C++/Visual Basic is also covered. Leaves you with more doors open, IMO.

I say don't bash either of them (MSCE ppl or ppl with College degrees).

Cretin
 
A college degree in the tech. field is rather important. It's just that with most colleges, you're not getting much bang for your buck but that's true of nearly any field of study. I like what vi_edit said, the degree is proof you can learn. As for M$ certification, I don't believe that's all it's cracked up to be at least as far as earnings go. I have yet to see a study done where it really matters in yearly salary but I could be wrong.

<< What happens after the big booming internet age? >>

We'll do what many of our parents had to do: go back to school. It'll be kewl to be non-trad...trust me. 😉
 
Cretin: I think that's the best way to go. I am not saying that a CS degree is the ONLY and BEST way to go. A wide variety of skills is the best way of ensuring you survive this internet boom.

 
From my experience, once you have a job-everything from then on, is in your hands. I have seen College grads laid off as often as less eduacated people.
 
I don't think either one (specialized education or bachelors/masters degrees) mean much in the long run. What matters is your ability to learn and apply your skills, and your motivation and hard work. When (and if) the time comes that I have to resort to reducing some of my staff, I'll be looking at who the producers are, not what degree or certification they have.
 
But remember the ability to learn, dedication, etc has been demonstrated with those with degrees, at least at that point in time. Many employers will look for that and thats why I'm going to try to get a degree I think...

But wildcard I feel you're right on the money.....now don't tell people that secret 😉
 
Degrees are worthless...

But they are very important. I agree that a degree does not actually prove that you know something but there are things that it does prove. One of which is something that people from my generation tend to lack...follow through. Also, it show that you are able to communicate and socialize with others. Companies aren't looking for nerds who spend all their times in the basement in front of their monitor (unless for R&amp;D).

However, one of the major complaints that I have with a degree is that the schools near me don't teach the right things. I find my self taking a lot of classes at Community Colleges because they have the most up to date courses. Universities have to much bureaucracy involved with changing the curriculum. If you got your CS degree back during the boom days then great. But now the field of computers is getting too diverse for a CS degree to mean anything unless you are happy with some mediocre job. Certificates are better for specialization. And it is up to the individual to pick the one that will have the best future. For an example Cisco has a ton of other certificates besides the CCNA, CCNP and CCIE. They have certificates in specialized fields such as routing, security and so forth.

Colleges are treating computers as if it was one finite thing. It would be as if chemistry and physics were grouped together. While they have common ties they are completely different things.
 
I see your argument azazyel. since computers are changing so rapidly, what you learning in college maybe 5 years ago is alot different from what you learned now and certifications make sure you keep up on the current technology...hmm good point.

 
That's why I said that it's not what you learn, just proof that you can, and have the ambition to.
 
In fact I think my local university droped QBASIC from their degree requirements only 2 or 3 years ago.
 
hah yeas, some schools still encorporate regular C in many, many of their classes. My university, however, starts right off with C++.
 
I agree that it depends on where you study. Yes, some degrees are worthless 🙂 But you should attend college to learn far more than just c++ and other computer classes....critical thinking skills, analytical reasoning, etc, etc...Then again, I am an Econ/Public Policy major, so maybe that's just me 🙂



 
I dont think one is more important then the other. Either are great to have! If i did have to choose I would proabably pick a 2 or 4 year degree over the MCSE.
 

you can have all the MCSE, CNNA, ...........etc. But you will lack the foundation to get into higher level of development area. Will microsoft or intel hire people only with MCSE...? Nope.
 
There's another reason why degrees are important which hasn't been mentioned yet. If you end up working for a sizeable company, do you think you will EVER be promoted into a serious managerial role without a college degree? (Ok, it could happen, but do you think your chances are that good?) Sure, you can do grunt work for years, and you can probably end up in a supervisory role for other IT grunts. However, you will hit a glass ceiling because no one in senior management is going to promote someone to a decent managerial position when they do not have the paper credentials to back it up. Given two people of equal ability and personality, the person with the degree will go farther. Plain and simple.

It doesn't matter too much now, but it will in 15 years.
 
That is a good point. In the past if you didn't have highschool it was ok, then it got to where you really really wanted one. Then a Degree was nice (like now), but it will get to where more and more people have them and not having one could hurt you in the corporate world - if only because its that piece of paper that people like.

Many people say degrees are worthless and I personally believe that for most people if you have to take out whopping loans an undergrad degree is not worth it - but very few people will ever say they regret spending those 3-4 years...
 
AndrewR: I completely agree. Alot of people don't seem to realize that the economy we are having right now is at a peak and it is already showing signs of a slight leveling off and even maybe a slight decline.

All this internet hiring boom has pretty much died off or will eventually die off soon and i'd say within 10 years, alot of computer companies are gonna be doing some trimming and if you don't have a college degree, you are pretty much not worth much, except as a 50-60k yearly savings to a company.
 
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