Tired of hearing about 'Fragmentation', but...

[MrX8503]

I don't develop apps, but I develop websites. I'll create a website that'll work across browsers, but it increases development costs. I'm assuming Android developers go through the same thing but on a much extreme level.

This is why apps get delayed, are buggy, or aren't released first on Android. For example it took forever for Android to get Netflix and Skype (or Skype video). Netflix and Skype aren't mom n pop shop developers either.

 

[Bateluer]

I don't develop apps, but I develop websites. I'll create a website that'll work across browsers, but it increases development costs. I'm assuming Android developers go through the same thing but on a much extreme level.

Baloney. If you follow standard code, 99% of websites will look fine across any browser.

This is why apps get delayed, are buggy, or aren't released first on Android. For example it took forever for Android to get Netflix and Skype (or Skype video). Netflix and Skype aren't mom n pop shop developers either.

Netflix and Skype aren't typical cases, as both can easily chew through a LOT of data. Carriers don't want you sucking down a GB or more a day watching Netflix. Carriers make the Netflix/Skype devs jump through hoops, bring up a handful of devices at a time, etc. When the first Netflix apks leaked, it was easy to simple change your device ID string and make the app work on nearly any Android device. Until they got wise and found other methods to artificially block the app.

Even if the carriers could charge you buy the MB used, there isn't enough spectrum and bandwidth for every wireless user to treat it as a home cable line.

 

[QueBert]

Baloney. If you follow standard code, 99% of websites will look fine across any browser.

Unless your site's CSS heavy, because Microsoft doesn't believe in following the CSS standards. It's a PITA to make a site that uses CSS look the same in IE as all other browsers.

 

[MrX8503]

Baloney. If you follow standard code, 99% of websites will look fine across any browser.

Baloney? Do you do development work?

IE doesn't follow standard code.

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2011/11/03/“but-the-client-wants-ie-6-support”/

If you want entire web browser support its time and money. Every developer is different, but I charge for it.

Netflix and Skype aren't typical cases, as both can easily chew through a LOT of data. Carriers don't want you sucking down a GB or more a day watching Netflix. Carriers make the Netflix/Skype devs jump through hoops, bring up a handful of devices at a time, etc. When the first Netflix apks leaked, it was easy to simple change your device ID string and make the app work on nearly any Android device. Until they got wise and found other methods to artificially block the app.

Even if the carriers could charge you buy the MB used, there isn't enough spectrum and bandwidth for every wireless user to treat it as a home cable line.

That's a stretch and if you're not on the dev team, I'm gonna chalk that up as your assumption.

What about Temple Run app? The android app is buggy. There are numerous apps that are either delayed or buggy when its ported to Android. Users don't really see the work that goes into an app because they rely on the developer to just make it work.

The truth is that its more work for the developer, so Android users have to wait longer for an app.

 

[ponyo]

Why don't you guys talk about the positives of fragmentation?

 

[alent1234]

Baloney. If you follow standard code, 99% of websites will look fine across any browser.



Netflix and Skype aren't typical cases, as both can easily chew through a LOT of data. Carriers don't want you sucking down a GB or more a day watching Netflix. Carriers make the Netflix/Skype devs jump through hoops, bring up a handful of devices at a time, etc. When the first Netflix apks leaked, it was easy to simple change your device ID string and make the app work on nearly any Android device. Until they got wise and found other methods to artificially block the app.

Even if the carriers could charge you buy the MB used, there isn't enough spectrum and bandwidth for every wireless user to treat it as a home cable line.

nice for you but i'm not going to be telling my mom to root her phone, look for apk's on the internet or whatever. she just wants it to work and i don't want phone calls asking me stupid questions

 

[Red Storm]

nice for you but i'm not going to be telling my mom to root her phone, look for apk's on the internet or whatever. she just wants it to work and i don't want phone calls asking me stupid questions

Pretty sure his point was that Netflix was purposefully fragmented. In this particular situation, the coding for variable SoCs argument doesn't hold much weight when all it took is one simple change to get it working.

I would sympathize with devs who complain about having to code for variable systems, but PC application devs have been doing it for years and years...

 

[badb0y]

Pretty sure his point was that Netflix was purposefully fragmented. In this particular situation, the coding for variable SoCs argument doesn't hold much weight when all it took is one simple change to get it working.

I would sympathize with devs who complain about having to code for variable systems, but PC application devs have been doing it for years and years...

PC applications also cost more.

 

[alent1234]

Pretty sure his point was that Netflix was purposefully fragmented. In this particular situation, the coding for variable SoCs argument doesn't hold much weight when all it took is one simple change to get it working.

I would sympathize with devs who complain about having to code for variable systems, but PC application devs have been doing it for years and years...

no, netflix had issues with making DRM work on the different CPU/GPU combinations out there. Same with skype, either the original tegra or the tegra 2 didn't support NEON or something like that and that ruled out skype working on those phones for video calls

 

[Red Storm]

no, netflix had issues with making DRM work on the different CPU/GPU combinations out there. Same with skype, either the original tegra or the tegra 2 didn't support NEON or something like that and that ruled out skype working on those phones for video calls

In other words, the application worked fine, it's the DRM (that didn't stop pirates anyway) that needed work.

 

[Pia]

PC applications also cost more.

Plus, while the PC platform has a lot of variance, very little of it has any effect on PC developers. The lowest common denominator of e.g. 95% of existing PCs running XP or better is quite high, which translates to little work being necessary to make the same app work on all of those machines. Developers working closely with hardware, such as game devs, are an exception.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Plus, while the PC platform has a lot of variance, very little of it has any effect on PC developers. The lowest common denominator of e.g. 95% of existing PCs running XP or better is quite high, which translates to little work being necessary to make the same app work on all of those machines. Developers working closely with hardware, such as game devs, are an exception.

The same is true for Android as well, the vast majority of Android devices are 2.2 or higher so as long as developers target API Level 8 their app should work on fine for most users.

 

[WelshBloke]

Fragmentation IS an issue for Android. If you refuse to believe it, you're just digging your head in sand.

- Smugmug released a camera app for iOS, and then cited fragmentation as delays for the Android one coming out.

- Lets take CM9 for example. Most of the devices (except for the NExus S and GNex) are still focusing on porting device drivers working. Video recording on the SGS2 didn't work til last week. I'm not saying the devs are doing a bad job, but they have to reinvent the wheel for each device.

- Each time a new device comes out, we spend countless hours trying to root it. Every device is different. If all devices could be rooted the same way, how many countless hours would that save?

- The SGS1 phones were very well developed for CM7. They had practically everything working. Why? Because they shared the same hardware as the Nexus S. This worked to an advantage. Things were easily ported over from the Nexus S to all the SGS phones.

- Now take the SGS2. It's just as popular as the SGS1 phone if not more. Leading Android phone. However, what other phone uses the Exynos and Mali stuff? The Galaxy Nexus is quite different. As a result CM7 development for the SGS2 was a total mess. FM Radio doesn't work, the Market freezing issue is well known in the CM7 final. CM9 is a mess too. On the other hand you take less popular phones like the Sensation and other HTC phones, and they're a miracle to develop for.

Look, I admire hardware choice and what not, but imagine if there were only ONE phone for Android. Or let's say 5 global phones. If developers could concentrate on just 5 phones instead of 800 phones, wouldn't development get further?

Screen resolutions like qHD, wvga, Motorola's idiotic 858x480 resolution, 720p, etc make app development hard. I remember one app they developed specifically broke on my Motorola Milesstone because they didn't account for the 858x480 resolution. I worked with them on XDA to fix it. Think of it like developing webpages. Devs hated developing to be compatible for IE6 and IE in general.

Thats a bit of a weird argument.

How many analogs of CM are there for other mobile OSs?

 

[MrX8503]

Speaking of app support. Instagram is available for Android 2.2 and up now. I don't use it, but I know its a big deal for some.

 

[Pia]

The same is true for Android as well, the vast majority of Android devices are 2.2 or higher so as long as developers target API Level 8 their app should work on fine for most users.

Targeting the 95% of the PC market I was talking about, you can assume things like decent keyboard and exact pointing ability, at least 1024x768 screen, tons of performance. The lowest common denominator of 95% of Android devices is terrible, and an app designer is very likely to be hamstringed by it.

 

[akugami]

Thats called being a developer. With the multitude of apps that work perfectly fine on all the major devices, its the developer who simply wants to write a single package, a one size fits all program, then sit back and milk profits.

The closet thing Android sees with fragmentation are manufacturer skins, not OS version or different SoCs.

Unless you're a 'Get rich quick developer', in the vein of Ubi-Soft or Electronic Arts, fragmentation is a none issue.

You're trying to say there is no fragmentation issue on Android. There is.

On iOS there is no fragmentation issue because there isn't really any device differentiation. Even then, there are some issues that may crop up between the different iOS versions or between an older model iPhone or iPad. There is some fragmentation on iOS but the impact is tiny because there's only been 6 models of iPhones total and 3 iPads as well as 4 OS revisions.

On Android, our developers have to account for different screen sizes, different hardware, different OS revisions, and to top it off different skins. All with their own quirks.

What you stated does not refute what I said. What you stated actually reinforces my point that fragmentation is an issue. You put a straw man argument saying that having to bug test for different devices is part of development. That's true, it is. Even on iOS it is. But that doesn't change the fact that fragmentation is an issue. All of those apps that "work perfectly" on most major devices had to go through bug testing. They didn't magically come out of the chute working on all devices.