Tips for locating PC physically further than monitor/kb/mouse?

[Red Squirrel]

I've been thinking it would be nice to locate my PC in my server room as once it is fully complete it will be a better controlled environment. Biggest issue upstairs is dust because I have a cat. My PC acts like a vacuum and pretty much looks like inside a vacuum bag, and I can clean it all I want but it's just as bad the next day.

Rather then messing around with little filters on every single fan and stuff I was thinking it would be neat to locate it in my server rack. I also am thinking of getting an additional PC so I don't have to keep dual booting out of Linux when I want to game. I also can't get more than 2 monitors working in Linux so I may use Synergy to drive the others which means another PC. I'm looking at like 3 PCs going on at once and that will also generate lot of heat and be noisy.

I figure the run is no more than 25 feet but I'd have to measure again. So I'd want to get 25ish foot DVI cables, USB cables and audio cables.

Will the long cables be an issue for things like keyboard/mouse response, monitor response/quality etc? From my understanding I should be alright but thought I'd ask if anyone has ever tried something like this.

The cables I'm thinking of buying:

for USB:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030312&p_id=8489&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=103&cp_id=10303&cs_id=1030304&p_id=5435&seq=1&format=2


For DVI:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10209&cs_id=1020903&p_id=2406&seq=1&format=2
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10209&cs_id=1020902&p_id=2760&seq=1&format=2


For audio:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021808&p_id=650&seq=1&format=2


Any other things I should consider with this project? I may also run some control cables so I can power on/reset from my desk. But that will probably just be an after thought that I add in later.

I will also have a USB KVM in the server room so there may be some shorter cables involved in the project, adding to the existing cables to connect to the KVM. Though I'm also debating on getting a laptop instead of a secondary PC, and that laptop would just stay in the office and the KVM would be in the office instead. Depends on what I decide to do.

The nice thing with this will be reduced noise and heat, and the PC will have less dust in it.

 

[richaron]

I've considered something similar in the past, though never got around to it. For USB ~26ft you do want the cable with a powered repeater/booster. You probs don't need a built-in hub because I would suggest a stand alone usb hub with more than 2 ports anyway (you probly don't want to daisy chain hubs). And I wouldn't worry about latency unless you are a super twitch gamer or using real time pro-ish audio stuff.

DVI seems fine, I haven't looked into it. But that audio cable looks too cheap and small to run any major distance. Analog signals are the most susceptible to interference from random EM waves, I have literally seen it with a 15 foot component video cable; a cable which I would bet is better than that 3.5mm one. I'd suggest a nice long chunky shielded cable if you want to use you PC's soundcard, or a (cheap?) USB dac/interface to sit at the far end.

 

[Cerb]

What about electrostatic AC filters, and positive pressure cooling with cases that have fan filters?

You'll be in by about half the cost of a new good case by the time you get your cables.

<- 3 cats, only the most minor dust/dander buildup; except on unmodified used whitebox PCs, that are worth using, but not fixing up right.

But, that aside:

Much longer DVI and HDMI cables can be problems, but 10ft is fine. If you need the 25ft, try it and see. It's not that it definitely won't work, but that you're into a nebulous realm of cable, GPU transmitter, and monitor receiver compatibility--may work great, may work with acceptable artifacts, may work with bad artifacts, or may not work. The fancy brand of HDMIs from Monoprice did well at distances, so I'd try theirs first.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10209&cs_id=1020901&p_id=2097&seq=1&format=2

USB is good to 15ft w/o going active. So, active there, if it gets around 25ft.

The audio cable is the most likely to be problematic, but it's cheap, so try it. If it doesn't work, spend the big bucks on a shielded Radio Shack one (yes, seriously, Radio Shack).

For power, reset, and any other switches, you can use RJ45s and Ethernet cables, and make a little switch box. A color pair per switch makes it nice and neat, up to 4 on a single cable, and the losses over such a length of CAT5/6 shouldn't be a problem, nor should the current being pulled.

 

[mfenn]

For audio, you can do an optical S/PDIF run and then put a DAC in your office. The fiber optic won't have any issues with interference or run length. Not necessarily the cheapest solution, but it'll be interference-free.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Thanks for the info, Monoprice does not have higher quality audio cables so I'll take that one anyway and see how it goes, but if it's not working out well I'll get a higher quality one from The Source (Radioshack). Basically one for speakers and one for mic or other input/output. The DAC thing looks interesting too...

 

[DominionSeraph]

Open side of case. Problem solved.

 

[sm625]

The distance wont effect keyboard/mouse latency. The video will be the biggest issue.

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for the info, Monoprice does not have higher quality audio cables so I'll take that one anyway and see how it goes, but if it's not working out well I'll get a higher quality one from The Source (Radioshack). Basically one for speakers and one for mic or other input/output. The DAC thing looks interesting too...

Huh? Monoprice cables are high quality. You're not going to somehow get better performance by paying more.

 

[Cerb]

Monoprice cables should be fine. I just mean if you want to try another 3.5" audio cable, should theirs be an antenna (SE shielding to signal ground is not ideal, no matter the cable), Radio Shack's are actually quite good, though you do pay much more for them. Or, you could make your own, with the shield going to ground on one end, since shielding would be the main issue for such a length.

Monoprice's prices just show you how much of others' prices is markup.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Huh? Monoprice cables are high quality. You're not going to somehow get better performance by paying more.

I was talking about the audio cable. If I have issues I might want to look at a higher quality shielded one. Monoprice does not have shielded ones as far as I can see.

 

[richaron]

Huh? Monoprice cables are high quality. You're not going to somehow get better performance by paying more.

I'm not in the states so I can't comment on Monoprice, and I don't usually recommend expensive cables, but I do in this case. Given my limited EE skillz I'm happy to be corrected with these, but here are a few ways you'll get better "performance":
-Signal attenuation will start to come into play (nonlinear per freq'?). Thicker gauge/more strands will help.
-Channel leakage; L + R (+ G/S) will all be causing inductance within the cable. Better and/or more layers of shielding will help, as will physical separation of channels.
-General antenna effect: separate point in non-ponsy talk because this will be most noticeable. It all depends on surrounding appliances & wiring, but I will be very surprised if one does not get a P distribution frequency hum (50/60hz) using crappy cables.

Solution are good quality analog cables, or as mentioned by a few people: use digital. Best solution being a USB audio interface since OP said they want audio in & out.

Edit: It has oçcured to me that OP will need a preamp for a mic anyway. Plus add another $50 for 2x decent cables & you are in interface level pricing; But much more convenient & probs much better performance would be an interface.

 

[piasabird]

Might be cheaper to run some kind of air filter to help collect some of the cat dander. I had a cat who liked to sit on top of my monitor. She thought it was her personal warming bed. Might be nice to have a cat free room.

It is kind of heartless to say this but houses are a lot cleaner and a lot healthier without cats.

There was a local heating and cooling company that ran an add about a device to reduce dust. Basically they had a low speed fan that constantly moved air through the air ducts. Somehow this makes less dust settle on the inside of the air ducts and other places. Replacing the air filters for the ducts more often may also help.

I have also noticed that cases with a metal mesh tend to suck less stuff inside the case. Especially if you have an intake fan which creates positive pressure. When you only have an exhaust fan it pulls air through every gap and vent possible.

 

[mfenn]

I'm not in the states so I can't comment on Monoprice, and I don't usually recommend expensive cables, but I do in this case. Given my limited EE skillz I'm happy to be corrected with these, but here are a few ways you'll get better "performance":

I was talking about the audio cable. If I have issues I might want to look at a higher quality shielded one. Monoprice does not have shielded ones as far as I can see.

Lemme bold the relevant part of my post:

For audio, you can do an optical S/PDIF run and then put a DAC in your office. The fiber optic won't have any issues with interference or run length. Not necessarily the cheapest solution, but it'll be interference-free.

For those not in the know, S/PDIF stands for Sony/Phillips Digital Interface Format and optical S/PDIF is a fiber optic cable that doesn't suffer from the usual sources of electrical interference nor does it need shielding.

 

[Cerb]

I use the 3M A/C filters rated for everything but smoke, then use one of the ones rated for smoke ($15-20 v. $5-8) every few filters, or if it feels needed.

But, for PCs, the change came years ago, while I was still using an Enlight EN-7237, when I moved to positive pressure, and blocked off air vents that could suck air in (like top vents when the PC is off...I had added some holes to that case, by then...). Then, only the intake caught much at all, and that could be filtered (a feature which lots of new cases include).

 

[Red Squirrel]

The dust is only 1/3 of the reason. I can't get triple monitor to work in Linux so I'll be getting another PC to drive the other 2 and use synergy. I'm also thinking of building another "main" PC so I don't have to keep dual booting to windows when I want to game. I'd just use a KVM. That will make 3 machines total. So the other reasons are noise and heat. Also room. 3 machines will take up lot of room if I leave them in the office.

 

[richaron]

Lemme bold the relevant part of my post:

Right... Context. My bad. SPDIF would work and I'm not entirely convinced it even needs to be optical.

It would be unwise to use SPDIF though, because you would need to double up on cables (out & in), would need an interface anyway (as ADC for mic), and would probably need more hardware on computer side (SPDIF in). OP is already running a digital link which should have enough bandwidth for everything using USB.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I got my cables, and I'm testing this right now and so far so good. I still need to try to game but considering the monitor shows up fine in Linux with the proper res I don't think gaming will be an issue, it's either it works or it doesn't as far as I know. But I will test in a bit.

Playing Audio, no problem with just the basic audio cable. Did not try mic, but I RARELY use the mic, so I'll just worry about it when I do the final hookup. I did not punch any holes in my walls/floors yet, the PC is still next to me and the cables are just all coiled up.

Keyboard/mouse works fine too. Did not try USB storage devices. I got the most crucial stuff working so I'll figure out the rest once I made my hole. Still have to decide how I want to go about doing that so it looks half decent. I could just take the hole saw and punch a hole in the floor, but rather go through the wall.

A step closer to a dust free and quiet office, will be nice.

 

[mfenn]

Nice! Thanks for the follow up!

 

[Red Squirrel]

All done! Works like a charm.

http://imgur.com/a/L3amT

It's crazy the difference in makes in terms of heat generation. I actually have to open the furnace heat register now. Will be nice in summer though.

So quiet now too. I can only hear the server room through the floor now. That will eventually be insulated.

 

[mfenn]

All done! Works like a charm.

http://imgur.com/a/L3amT

It's crazy the difference in makes in terms of heat generation. I actually have to open the furnace heat register now. Will be nice in summer though.

So quiet now too. I can only hear the server room through the floor now. That will eventually be insulated.

The cat is like "dude, why are you messing with my warm electrical nest? I hate you!" :awe:

But seriously, nice work!

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah cat is not too impressed LOL. She actually seems confused as to why it's not as hot anymore around there. She'd sometimes sleep right on top of the PC. More heat coming out of that thing than the actual heat register.

 

[MrFrenzy]

Wait, I don't see the pictures of the desktop/final result?

Why not virtualize the Linux system? It will be much easier to work with, less PC/s heat!

Also, good vacuum like a Dyson goes a LONG way I vacuum obsessively (no pets too!).

 

[Red Squirrel]

Oh yeah, I kinda forgot to include that but it basically looks like this:



Except the two PCs on the floor are now gone as they're in the basement.

I can't virtualize that machine, a physical monitor has to be connected to it. The keyboard/mouse are the only thing done through network (synergy). That is how I obtain a real time display. I suppose another option would be using some kind of thin client solution.

I can vacuum that PC twice a day, but it will still have enough dust in it to create a kitten. So I gave up on it. Something about that case makes it attract dust like a magnet since my old PC was not that bad. Now it's in the basement and once I'm done the server room it will be sealed up and dust free. The intake for the cold aisle will go through a filter. The rackmout cases tend to also be better optimized for air flow with a central intake so it makes it easier to add a filter as well.

 

[Cerb]

Keyboard/mouse works fine too. Did not try USB storage devices.

I've had good experiences with active cables. An active cable going to a powered hub should work fine, if a direct connection, or only an active cable, has issues (an active cable still makes for quite a long inductor, and surely affects the +5V stability under loads).

 

[Red Squirrel]

These cables have a built in 2 port hub with a plug to add external power, though it looks like I don't need the external power. The storage works fine too now that everything is run as I tested it. I probably could have gotten away with 1 cable and a hub but figured two cable would be best. One is for the keyboard/mouse and the other is a "floater" (what I use for misc storage like USB sticks and camera SD cards) and the other goes to the printer. Eventually I want to just set it up as a network printer but have not really looked into doing that yet on Linux. It's a bit more involved than Windows.