Time Warner: Caps too low? How about unlimited for $150 a month?

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
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Time Warner: Unlimited Internet for $150 Per Month

Time Warner, criticized for the cost of its broadband services, has slightly altered prices

Time Warner Cable, under pressure because of low bandwidth caps for high prices, has altered its tiered Internet plan, including a new unlimited bandwidth plan.

"With regard to consumption-based billing, we have determined that as broadband usage and penetration grow, there are increasing differences in the amount of bandwidth our customers consume," Time Warner Cable COO Landel Hobbs recently wrote. "Our current pricing plans require all users to pay the same amount, whether they check e-mail once a month or download six movies a day."

I hope Time Warner gets whats coming to them. They claim the costs are causing them to charge more for service, but thats not true according to arstechnica.com:

Time Warner tries again, fails to justify caps and charges

Time Warner Cable, stung by public reaction to the Internet data caps it is now trialing in several markets, has issued yet another public statement. Turns out, the problem here doesn't rest with the caps but with the "press reports" that "were premature and did not tell the full story."

All of which perfectly explains why Time Warner Cable has also boosted cap limits in every tier.
The messenger, we shoot him

What premature, not-full-story-telling press reports might be referenced here? Well, there was our own look at the bizarre price discrepancy between the new TWC cap system and that offered by every other major US Internet provider, for one.

The New York Times Bits blog tried to pry a few answers of out TWC Chief Operating Officer Landel Hobbs?including an explanation of how bandwidth costs TWC money when their network is peered and most costs are fixed?but got approximately nowhere.

And yesterday, Wired followed up on both pieces with a look of its own at TWC revenues, showing that broadband costs had decreased by 12 percent in 2008 even as broadband revenues had increased by 11 percent.

TWC's response to three sets of solid questions? The continued assertion that "Internet demand is rising at a rate that could outpace capacity within a few years. According to industry analysts, the infrastructure may not be able to accommodate the explosion of online content by 2012. This could result in Internet brownouts. It will take a lot of money to fix the problem."
Beware the coming Internet brownouts

This is a reference to Internet "exaflood" theories that are not currently being borne out by the data. For instance, US Internet growth has declined into the 40-60 percent per year range (which TWC's own numbers confirm), well below the 100 percent per year numbers used to generate some of the scariest predictions of doom.

Even as traffic increases, traffic costs on major Internet backbones have been decreasing by 50 percent a year?an obvious market signal that capacity is plentiful at the core and in no danger of "browning out." At the edges, network upgrades to DOCSIS 3.0 are cheap?somewhere in the neighborhood of $20-100 per subscriber.

As for the TWC network in between the headend and the backbone, of course routers, etc. will need constant upgrading; that's how the business works. But TWC's revenues are going up while its costs are going down?making it look like the tiered pricing scheme (with its quite small caps) is more about 1) squeezing cash out of broadband users and 2) keeping TWC's cable TV operation alive by making Internet video less desirable.

The "it's expensive to upgrade" argument certainly seems dubious. How dubious? Let's run a new set of numbers. TWC last night announced the pricing scheme for its new 100GB/month tier for $75/month. Comcast, using the same technology, offers a 250GB cap for $42.95.month (and some Ars users have reported lower numbers in some markets), so it's clear right from the start that the TWC plan is hardly a "good deal."

Speeds aren't great, either, topping out at 10Mbps (and it's a bad sign when a company's COO says that users will get speeds of "10MB/1MB"). Overage charges are a dollar a GB, but TWC helpfully caps these at $75. To equal the Comcast cap, therefore, a TWC user would have to spend $150/month with TWC.

AT&T DSL, meanwhile, offers an uncapped, 6Mbps connection for $35/month.

Verizon's FiOS, which has required an $18 billion infrastructure investment that makes cable modem service look like the world's best bargain for operators, offers a 50Mbps connection with no explicit cap for $144.95/month.

Clearly Time Warner is blowing smoke up everyone's ass to get more money. I hope they go down and hard. The only way that happens is if companies like Verizon can speed up the expansion. I would switch with a smile and a :beer:
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
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This actually makes me appreciate my Comcast service. :shocked:

Hopefully TW is not the only game in town in Knoxville, TN(where I am moving in the coming months). I feel sorry for TW customers.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
I never thought I would personally hate a company but after dealing with this one I hate them. I've told them I hate them and my county (LA county) is actually suing them for their horrid customer service. I would never tolerate them capping my connection. I would go dsl 2 hours after they told me that.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
This actually makes me appreciate my Comcast service. :shocked:

Hopefully TW is not the only game in town in Knoxville, TN(where I am moving in the coming months). I feel sorry for TW customers.

I get the feeling that Comcast will be the very next company to hop on board to this scheme. I don't have anything but my gut feeling to back that up, but still. :p
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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Originally posted by: seemingly random
Amazing. There are no pro-twc apologist/shill comments yet.

That article does not mention transport costs within TWCs own network so I pretty much thought it was full of shit. That's where the squeeze is on any broadband provider. Basically anybody that works in this industry would immediately recognize the writer doesn't know what he is talking about.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Aimster
FIOS will dominate

FIOS will also be doing caps. They only solved the last mile problem which has also been solved with docsis 3.0.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
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this is where everything is going guys. insurance companies are headed this way too. right now there are slews of customers that are paying more than they should be and thus subsidizing the high usage customers. the first company who can figure out how to price the bands correctly will make oodles of money.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,270
103
106
Anyone with any sense sees the TWC tiers for what they are -- a simple money-grab ripoff of the consumer, especially the ones that are captive. People who live in areas that have actual competition can switch to other providers, those that live in places where TWC is the only option are going to get screwed. For those folks, I'd suggest getting in touch with your city council to get a move on creating competition so you don't continue to get screwed by TWC.

If TWC brings the tiered crap here, I'm going to drop them like a hot potato, including their cable TV / phone etc, and switching to one of the other providers. Hopefully enough consumers do the same and give them a big middle finger.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,277
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Amazing. There are no pro-twc apologist/shill comments yet.

That article does not mention transport costs within TWCs own network so I pretty much thought it was full of shit. That's where the squeeze is on any broadband provider. Basically anybody that works in this industry would immediately recognize the writer doesn't know what he is talking about.
Unbelievable. You're definitely worth more that $10 a post. Maybe there's a campaign bonus that you didn't mentiion.

Were you also championing the oil and gasoline price increases the last several years?
 

sciwizam

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
1,953
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Originally posted by: Balt
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
This actually makes me appreciate my Comcast service. :shocked:

Hopefully TW is not the only game in town in Knoxville, TN(where I am moving in the coming months). I feel sorry for TW customers.

I get the feeling that Comcast will be the very next company to hop on board to this scheme. I don't have anything but my gut feeling to back that up, but still. :p

They already have a 250GB/month cap.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
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Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Anyone with any sense sees the TWC tiers for what they are -- a simple money-grab ripoff of the consumer, especially the ones that are captive. People who live in areas that have actual competition can switch to other providers, those that live in places where TWC is the only option are going to get screwed. For those folks, I'd suggest getting in touch with your city council to get a move on creating competition so you don't continue to get screwed by TWC.

If TWC brings the tiered crap here, I'm going to drop them like a hot potato, including their cable TV / phone etc, and switching to one of the other providers. Hopefully enough consumers do the same and give them a big middle finger.

that is exactly why all companies will eventually adopt this model. all of the unprofitable customers will leave and go to fixed priced providers. all of the 'good' customers who don't use bandwidth will leave the fixed priced providers and go to the per usage providers because it will be cheaper.

the fixed price providers will have no choice but to adopt this model because they will be completely uncompetitive from an operational cost basis vs. other firms.
 
Dec 10, 2005
28,400
13,320
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Originally posted by: sciwizam
Originally posted by: Balt
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
This actually makes me appreciate my Comcast service. :shocked:

Hopefully TW is not the only game in town in Knoxville, TN(where I am moving in the coming months). I feel sorry for TW customers.

I get the feeling that Comcast will be the very next company to hop on board to this scheme. I don't have anything but my gut feeling to back that up, but still. :p

They already have a 250GB/month cap.

I feel like Comcast's cap was more of a hard cap being put in place so that people know when they step over the excessive bandwidth line, and thus they could no longer complain that they don't know what is considered 'abusing bandwidth'.
 
Dec 10, 2005
28,400
13,320
136
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Anyone with any sense sees the TWC tiers for what they are -- a simple money-grab ripoff of the consumer, especially the ones that are captive. People who live in areas that have actual competition can switch to other providers, those that live in places where TWC is the only option are going to get screwed. For those folks, I'd suggest getting in touch with your city council to get a move on creating competition so you don't continue to get screwed by TWC.

If TWC brings the tiered crap here, I'm going to drop them like a hot potato, including their cable TV / phone etc, and switching to one of the other providers. Hopefully enough consumers do the same and give them a big middle finger.

that is exactly why all companies will eventually adopt this model. all of the unprofitable customers will leave and go to fixed priced providers. all of the 'good' customers who don't use bandwidth will leave the fixed priced providers and go to the per usage providers because it will be cheaper.

the fixed price providers will have no choice but to adopt this model because they will be completely uncompetitive from an operational cost basis vs. other firms.

But the way the caps have been set up, it's not cheaper. You're just getting ripped off more for less.
 

aphex

Moderator<br>All Things Apple
Moderator
Jul 19, 2001
38,572
2
91
I wonder how far reaching this could go with TW. I have Brighthouse Networks (originally owned by TW) and we use Roadrunner, but everything is branded Brighthouse.
 

Cattlegod

Diamond Member
May 22, 2001
8,687
1
0
Originally posted by: Brainonska511
Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
Anyone with any sense sees the TWC tiers for what they are -- a simple money-grab ripoff of the consumer, especially the ones that are captive. People who live in areas that have actual competition can switch to other providers, those that live in places where TWC is the only option are going to get screwed. For those folks, I'd suggest getting in touch with your city council to get a move on creating competition so you don't continue to get screwed by TWC.

If TWC brings the tiered crap here, I'm going to drop them like a hot potato, including their cable TV / phone etc, and switching to one of the other providers. Hopefully enough consumers do the same and give them a big middle finger.

that is exactly why all companies will eventually adopt this model. all of the unprofitable customers will leave and go to fixed priced providers. all of the 'good' customers who don't use bandwidth will leave the fixed priced providers and go to the per usage providers because it will be cheaper.

the fixed price providers will have no choice but to adopt this model because they will be completely uncompetitive from an operational cost basis vs. other firms.

But the way the caps have been set up, it's not cheaper. You're just getting ripped off more for less.

which is why i said in my previous post that "who can figure out how to price the bands correctly" :)
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,673
482
126
Originally posted by: sciwizam
Originally posted by: Balt
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
This actually makes me appreciate my Comcast service. :shocked:

Hopefully TW is not the only game in town in Knoxville, TN(where I am moving in the coming months). I feel sorry for TW customers.

I get the feeling that Comcast will be the very next company to hop on board to this scheme. I don't have anything but my gut feeling to back that up, but still. :p

They already have a 250GB/month cap.

There's a big difference between what Comcast has currently and what TW is doing.
 

Bandit1

Member
Jan 11, 2005
105
0
0
I have been reading about this for some time now,..since i am a TWC customer.What it seems attention is diverted from is that the low bandwidth user not benefiting all that much from this new plan,yet his/her cost will remain the same or change a few meager bucks,wow.Funny too,there just is no existing plan or idea that simply charges you for the bandwith you ACTUALLY use,thereby rewarding/saving you on a low useage month.From that viewpoint,a 10gb per month user should be charged what?,$10 a month?Would'nt that show true fairness,and the heartful concern of the company?The 250gb cap comcast has sounds reasonable.With low caps,more than just "unprofitable"customers will abandon ship,that is,if they even have a choice in their area.

I would probably fall under "average" use,but monthly prices have creeped up over the couple years here by at least 40% now,with no better service than before they bought out adelphia here about 2 years ago.

How can other countries charge so cheaply for extremely fast lines?Kinda makes one wonder.
 

seemingly random

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2007
5,277
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0
Maybe it's time to relieve these poor struggling companies of the suffering and make hi-speed internet a government responsibility.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Maybe it's time to relieve these poor struggling companies of the suffering and make hi-speed internet a government responsibility.

"Here! Here!"
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Maybe it's time to relieve these poor struggling companies of the suffering and make hi-speed internet a government responsibility.

Government would mean higher tolls. Everywhere I drive, there is always a toll.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Maybe it's time to relieve these poor struggling companies of the suffering and make hi-speed internet a government responsibility.

Last I checked this is America, not China.
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: seemingly random
Maybe it's time to relieve these poor struggling companies of the suffering and make hi-speed internet a government responsibility.

Last I checked this is America, not China.

I think he was being sarcastic? I hope so...