Time to upgrade my Core 2?

[Bateluer]

Since I've finally sold, essentially gave, my A64 X2 backup machine to a co-worker for his kids, I'm now seriously debating whether or not its time to upgrade my main machine . . .and slide the C2D, RAM, and motherboard into a simple care and power supply as the new back up.

I was holding off for Ivy Bridge, but what I've read on it, I'm really not seeing much worth waiting for. The faster IGP isn't relevant, the lower TDP is nice, but not exactly something I'm overly concerned about. A truckload of RAM is cheap, payday is tomorrow, and quarterly bonuses arrive in a week. So, discuss my choices.

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.
- General purpose, gaming, Internet.

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread
- Not set in stone, but I don't want to go completely crazy either. 500, plus or minus a 100.

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.
- USA

4. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.
-I only need CPU, RAM, and motherboard. I already have a Radeon 6950, so my AMD/ATI fan-lust is satisfied there. Like most, I was underwhelmed by Bulldozer, to say the list.

5. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.
- I can re-use everything except the three main parts, CPU, RAM, and motherboard

6. IF YOU have searched and/or read similar threads.
- Sort of, not with a critical eye. i5 2500 builds seem very popular.

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.
- No. Its a thing with the Phoenix summer heat, not worth the effort.

8. What resolution YOU plan on gaming with.
- 1920x1200 for now, a larger monitor is on the list, but 24in is very solid for the size of my desk.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
- Once I narrow down the motherboard, I can pull the trigger anytime between 4 Jan and 6 Jan.

10. Don't ask for a build configuration critique or rating if you are thin skinned.
- I take enough flak in MD&G and never lose my composure, bring it.

I'm fairly sure I'm going to go with the i5 2500, its popular and easily outstrips my C2D in performance. I'm also looking at 16GB of RAM, ~70 bucks is more than I paid for 8GB of DDR2 a few years ago.

Core i5 2500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115073

G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231441

Here's where I'm not set, the motherboard. My main requirement is for 6 SATA ports, so I can continue to use my 2x500GB and 2x1TB drives with my 2 optical drives. Asus boards have never given me any problems, always been flawless, but ASRock is/was a subsidiary(?) of Asus and I've heard some positive things from them.

So, I'm torn between the Asus P8Z68-V LE for $133.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131773

And the ASRock Z68 PRO3 GEN3 for ~112.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157279

Both boards have the needed 6 SATA ports, but the Asus has two PCIe 2.0 x16 slots. I don't see myself buying a second card for Xfire though, so I'm leaning towards the ASRock. I've verified the RAM I've chosen is on their 'supported' memory list too, for what its worth.

With the ASRock board and a copy of Win7 Pro, its about 550 shipped.

Feedback on the motherboard choice?

I'll also tack on an inexpensive case and PSU to move the C2D, DDR2, and old board into. I've got a SATA drive and video card for it sitting in the closet that need a home.

 

[mfenn]

What you have (with the ASRock board) looks fine. However, I really doubt that you will need 16GB of RAM before your next upgrade cycle given the tasks you have listed. Also, you should take a look at the i5 2400 because it saves you $20 for a negligible performance difference.
http://detonator.dynamitedata.com/c...com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115074

 

[Bateluer]

Cutting back to 8GBs and the i5 2400 trims it a little. Reviewing the 2400 and 2500 on the AT Bench, they're close enough.

Heh, going with the 8GB sticks trims ~30 dollars off and there's a 4GB SDcard as a bonus right now.

 

[lehtv]

Since you're not going to overclock and don't care about Crossfire, you could get a H67 motherboard instead. H61 would be even cheaper but you'd lose out on USB3.0 and Sata 6gb/s.

i5-2400 $190
2x4GB G.Skill Value 1333 $35 or 2x4GB PNY 1333 $35 (H67 supports only up to 1333 but the performance difference is negligible)
Biostar TH67+ $60 AR (has 6x SATA)

= $285 AR

Why do you need Win 7 Pro?

 

[Bateluer]

Why do you need Win 7 Pro?

Not sure much need, but my existing license is an upgrade license. Every time I use it now, or change any hardware, it refuses to activate. It requires a phone call to Microsoft. Its annoying and I'd rather avoid it. Forward thinking, get a full license now and avoid having to deal with any issues with Win8 . . . which I wasn't impressed with from the Dev Preview. Pre-release, but it was pretty bad.

What are the main differences between the H67 chipsets and Z68s? Pretty sure its more than just RAM speeds. Past experience has steered me towards more 'premium' hardware, its more stable, lasts longer, and usually has better support.

I'm not too familiar with the Biostar brand either, though that model has decent Newegg reviews. For what thats worth. But, it doesn't look like it'd support my 5.1 speakers.

Edit - I'm not trying to do this as cheaply as possible, just the most bang for the buck with allowances for hardware quality.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157252

 

[lehtv]

I meant why Win 7 Pro as opposed to Home Premium, not why full license as opposed to upgrade license.

The main differences between H67 and Z68: Z68 can do everything H67 can, but it can also adjust cpu clock multipliers and do SSD caching (intel SRT).

What about this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...pk=BOXDH67BLB3

 

[Bateluer]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157252

Not enough SATA ports.

I meant why Win 7 Pro as opposed to Home Premium, not why full license as opposed to upgrade license.

The main differences between H67 and Z68: Z68 can do everything H67 can, but it can also adjust cpu clock multipliers and do SSD caching (intel SRT).

What about this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...pk=BOXDH67BLB3

Eventually, I will want to pick up an SSD. I'll probably stick with whatever board I buy for a couple of years, so getting a good board now will save me headaches later.

As to Windows 7, there are features I use on the Pro version that aren't supported by HP. I RDP to my desktop from my phone often, and can't do that with HP. Otherwise, it'd be a great way to trim 40 dollars.

 

[Ken g6]

SSD caching is not required to use an SSD. All it does is cache data from your HDD(s) on the SSD. To some degree it looks like a gimmick. You can't use more than 64GB of an SSD for caching, anyway.

The other way to use an SSD is to install your OS, and any frequently-used programs that fit, directly onto it.

Edit: The other side of the argument is that a Z68 board can adjust these semi-locked chips' multipliers a little, so you could "overclock" your 2400 to basically make it a 2500. (Quotes because it's hardly overclocking at all.)

 

[fastamdman]

Just so you know, you can overclock a 2500k in high ambient pheonix weather without having to worry about it. Overclocking doesn't create a lot of heat on sandy bridge chips. A cheap 30 dollar cooler will get you to 4.5ghz with very low temps.

I highly suggest you rethink going 2500k + overclocking

 

[lehtv]

You won't get "very low temps" with a 4.5GHz OC. In 30 degree ambient it'd probably be pushing the safe limits with a 30 dollar Hyper 212 Evo, but you could still do a 4.1-4.3 because that typically doesn't need much of a voltage increase.

I wouldn't say overclocking is always worth it though, the CPU and cooler combined will cost at least $50 more and you also have the opportunity to save on the motherboard if you don't OC.

 

[fastamdman]

lehtv - I have used both a hyper 212+ and a hyper 212 evo with all sorts of voltages. I can assure you that a 2500k or a 2600k that is running sub 1.4vcore which is all that it takes for a 4.5ghz overclock keeps the temps very low. What you and I consider very low might be 2 different things apparently. Most 2500k's and 2600k's run anywhere from 1.3 to 1.4 vcore for a 4.5ghz overclock. With that voltage both hyper 212+'s keep temps plenty low.

I can run my hyper 212 evo at 1.5vcore on linx and not be in the danger zone. It's all about ambient temps, proper mounting, proper paste.

There is no reason why a hyper 212+ or evo would not be able to rock a 4.5ghz 24/7 stable overclock period.

As far as overclocking not always being worth it, it really depends on what the user is going to do. I would rather pay 30 dollars for a better cpu cooler no matter what, to ensure that the cpu stays cool. Whether its a stock cpu or overclocked cpu I like to have my temps as low as possible.

Also the 2500k/2600k processors can be overclocked EASILY on any motherboard. You don't need to buy an expensive motherboard to overclock them, they are more so limited by the cpu then the motherboard. ANY cheap motherboard will do 4.5ghz without stress.

 

[lehtv]

Post your temps and we'll see if they are very low. What are your ambient temps?

There is no reason why a hyper 212+ or evo would not be able to rock a 4.5ghz 24/7 stable overclock period.

Except high ambient temps.

Also the 2500k/2600k processors can be overclocked EASILY on any motherboard. You don't need to buy an expensive motherboard to overclock them, they are more so limited by the cpu then the motherboard. ANY cheap motherboard will do 4.5ghz without stress.

I was referring to H61/H67 chipset instead of P67/Z68.

 

[fastamdman]

Temps depend on the application. 100% usage doesn't dictate temps, the app does. What would you like to know, folding temps, linx temps, p95 temps whats up?

To me, anything under 70c is low and I am usually under 65c with full load in FAH which is normal usage to me.

 

[lehtv]

Stress testing load temps i.e. LinX/P95. And ambient temps?

 

[fastamdman]

Ambient temps are around 70 degrees give or take, folding temps are 60c and under which is the same as p95. LinX with avx is obviously a bit higher, usually around 70c.

It also really depends on the vcore amount.

Edit: Normal people don't run linx or ibt 24/7 though. Gaming wise, folding wise, etc. Temps are going to be fairly cool. I don't see 60-65c not being reasonable personally.

 

[lehtv]

70 deg F? So 21C. Under 70C is pretty good, I wouldn't call it very low but low enough

The OP will probably have 5-10 centigrade higher ambients during summer, so he'd get that much higher temperatures. 80C during stress testing is acceptable, you only need to do it to confirm OC stability. 70C during real-world load is also fine. So yeah, the OP would be able to overclock at acceptable temps

 

[fastamdman]

Absolutely. I mean right now its about 73 in my house give or take, and the tower of my pc is in a small enclosed desk so its much warmer in that spot. With 100% full load using folding at home + gaming on my gtx 280, my load temps are roughly 60c.

The only thing that will push the temps up is stress testing. I can rock just about 1.5volts with 80c temps

 

[Bateluer]

Absolutely. I mean right now its about 73 in my house give or take, and the tower of my pc is in a small enclosed desk so its much warmer in that spot. With 100% full load using folding at home + gaming on my gtx 280, my load temps are roughly 60c.

The only thing that will push the temps up is stress testing. I can rock just about 1.5volts with 80c temps

Heh, this is why I don't overclock much anymore. The ambient temperature in my house during the summer is 80F, bit higher in the computer room. And much higher after a few hours of gaming.

Seems like the ASRock is the board for me though, the microATX boards that support the features I want cost about the same as the more feature rich board. Think I'm going to go for it.

 

[fastamdman]

You can still overclock with higher ambient temps, it doesn't effect things as much as you might think, summer temps and winter temps don't change THAT much overall for a reason.

Also when you are gaming, your temps will be MUCH lower then when you are stress testing.

I can turn my heat up to 80f right now if you would like and show you what my temps are like while gaming

 

[Bateluer]

You can still overclock with higher ambient temps, it doesn't effect things as much as you might think, summer temps and winter temps don't change THAT much overall for a reason.

Also when you are gaming, your temps will be MUCH lower then when you are stress testing.

I can turn my heat up to 80f right now if you would like and show you what my temps are like while gaming

Winter temps in my house are 10-15 degrees cooler that the summer. Phoenix has some pretty toasty summers. I've been unable to maintain any overclock on my E8500 during the hot months, and the performance difference hasn't been worthwhile enough to deal with backing it off during hot months and ramping it up during the cool months. And I don't even want to get into the 'transition' months, where one week it can be in the 30s outside, and the next pushing into the mid 80s.

 

[lehtv]

Yep, you can overclock fine with 80F, even 90F would be fine for a moderate OC. It's really not such a major issue, I can imagine it'd prevent you from reaching the highest your chip can go with manageable temps but that's not what you want to do anyway.

 

[Bateluer]

Yep, you can overclock fine with 80F, even 90F would be fine for a moderate OC. It's really not such a major issue, I can imagine it'd prevent you from reaching the highest your chip can go with manageable temps but that's not what you want to do anyway.

Hmm, maybe I just got a string of poor CPUs then. My old E6600 couldn't maintain a 3Ghz OC in the summer, and the E8500 can't sustain much either.

 

[Gillbot]

Not enough SATA ports.

I've never understood this argument when there are plenty of capable sata cards out there in pci/pcie formats.

 

[lehtv]

But why would you buy a SATA card for $20+ when you could buy a better motherboard in the first place?