Time to thank Gipper? Should J. Kerry be eating his words?

[michal1980]

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/kerry-86-missile-defense-system-cancer-our-nation-s-defense

Thank God we had a leader with true vision 30 years ago.

Imagine what the world would be like today if we listened to such doubters and fools like John Kerry. Its shameful he's in such a high position today.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Time to thank the Skipper? Should J. Kerry be eating his words?

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/kerry-86-missile-defense-system-cancer-our-nation-s-defense

Thank God we had a leader with true vision 30 years ago.

Imagine what the world would be like today if we listened to such doubters and fools like John Kerry. Its shameful he's in such a high position today.

What does Gillian's Island have to do with SDI?

 

[michal1980]

What does Gillian's Island have to do with SDI?

nothing but a brain fart.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

OP on ignore, thread not worth reading I'm sure.

 

[Jaskalas]

IMO, missiles to intercept missiles will be obsolete in 10-20 years. Soon as our navy is equipped with laser defense and shooting anything / everything out of the sky - someone in our military may have two brain cells to rub together and realize this is what we need for ICBMs.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

nothing but a brain fart.

The other woulda been awesome.

 

[michal1980]

OP on ignore, thread not worth reading I'm sure.

The open minded and enlightened left on display.

 

[michal1980]

IMO, missiles to intercept missiles will be obsolete in 10-20 years. Soon as our navy is equipped with laser defense and shooting anything / everything out of the sky - someone in our military may have two brain cells to rub together and realize this is what we need for ICBMs.

of course that's true. But to get there you have to start somewhere.

People like John Kerry would rather not start.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I actually didn't know much about this until I researched it just now. Imagine my shock -- shock! -- to discover that one of our resident right-wing propagandists is hawking an article that is at best highly misleading, and at worst, an outright lie:

Under the administration of President Bill Clinton in 1993, its name was changed to the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization (BMDO) and its emphasis was shifted from national missile defense to theater missile defense; and its scope from global to more regional coverage. It was never truly developed or deployed, though certain aspects of SDI research and technologies paved the way for some anti-ballistic missile systems of today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Defense_Initiative

“The weapons required included space- and ground-based nuclear X-ray lasers, subatomic particle beams, and computer-guided projectiles fired by electromagnetic rail guns—all under the central control of a supercomputer system.” By using these systems, the United States planned to intercept intercontinental ballistic missiles while they still flew high above the Earth, minimizing their effects. However, there was a large power requirement for these types of weapons — power requirements so vast that nuclear power was the method of choice. Thus, as the reality of creating numerous nuclear plants diminished, so did the ambitious designs. By the end of SDI, the primary focus of the weapons design group was focused on “land based kinetic energy weapons.” These weapons were essentially guided missile projectiles. At the end of the Strategic Defense Initiative, thirty billion dollars had been invested in the program and no laser and mirror system was ever used, not on land, not in space. The Strategic Defense Initiative was eventually abandoned, and after a few years, it was nothing other than a short chapter in history books.

http://www.coldwar.org/articles/80s/SDI-StarWars.asp

So, SDI was never actually developed. At best, some of the research done for SDI would have been used in developing more practical missile defense systems decades later.

How much? At what cost? Was the cost worth it? Would the practical technologies have been developed anyway even if SDI hadn't happened?

I don't know. And that horseshit article doesn't say. In fact it doesn't even attempt to explain any link between SDI and modern systems.

And hey, why would it? CNS isn't about news, it's about telling conservatives what they want to hear. The author knows that the people who read his crap will swallow every line without a moment of critical thought, so why bother?

The open minded and enlightened left on display.

"Enlightened"? Did you even read the article? Where does it establish any link between SDI and what is happening today?

Are you even capable of thinking?

 

[EagleKeeper]

The article seems to be tying Kerry's opposition to a missile defense system back 30 years ago to the fact that his boss is now deploying such and he is the point man in having to justify such.

Technology has advanced and what the original intent and enemy then has shifted.

Should Kerry be eating crow - no.
Right or wrong back then; times have changed; technology has improved and we know have seen that there is a justifiable need to a missile defense system that does no longer have to be for .inter-continental ballistics

 

[kage69]

I'm not going to comment on that joke of site, but to answer the thread title: No, and no.

 

[ElFenix]

ABM technology is really destabilizing if your peace is dependent upon rational actors knowing that even if you gave the other guys your best shot you'd be dead too. so i don't blame kerry for thinking it was a bad idea back then. not to mention that for a missile based ABM defense, it's cheaper to build more ICBMs with MIRVs and decoys than it is to build ABM missiles, so you'd likely bankrupt yourself if your resource levels were at all similar.

north korea is an entirely different situation, where at best (for them) the norks have a handful of missiles with even fewer warheads (i wouldn't be shocked to find that all of the norks' tests have been gun type devices, which are not suitable for use as warheads).

keep in mind the russians really thought RINO Ronnie was crazy.

 

[davmat787]

So, SDI was never actually developed. At best, some of the research done for SDI would have been used in developing more practical missile defense systems decades later.

How much? At what cost? Was the cost worth it? Would the practical technologies have been developed anyway even if SDI hadn't happened?

There is a very interesting documentary on the Military channel called (I forget), about a little known incident in 1983 when the USSR was positive we were about to go thermonuclear on them. See this wiki page for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

Anyway, many former KGB officials were interviewed and the prospect of SDI, aka Star Wars, scared them tremendously because it immediately nullified the concept of MAD and wasted all of the time, money, and resources they spent on their ICBM's.

So it appears that regardless of the level of SDI development, the USSR bought into enough to be quite scared and I assume helped develop attitudes that they could not win in the end.

keep in mind the russians really thought RINO Ronnie was crazy.

Yes, several of the former KGB officers touched on this. They literally thought he Reagan was cowboy crazy, and it scared them. But in the end, Reagan did visit Moscow and was flat out asked if he still thought the USSR was an evil empire, to which he simply said 'no'. Many of Reagans speeches that made them think he was cowboy crazy were very calculated to do just that as well.

 

[blankslate]

Maybe the writer of the article like the OP is just too stupid or disingenuous to take into account the advances in technology that makes a missile defense system more possible and less expensive than the unreliable money sink that it was 30 years ago....

Nah.... just stupid.

 

[Spungo]

OP on ignore, thread not worth reading I'm sure.

Basically he's quoting an article from a website for people who accidentally type "cns news" instead of "cbs news". Look on your keyboard and you'll see the two are right next to each other. This is sort of like how scammers will register a site like faceboock.com or faccebook.com and hope people enter their account information.

Did anyone else notice the weird image on the left?

"FILE - A Nicaraguan Contra fighter and Sen. John Kerry (D- Mass.) in 1985. (AP file)"
What the god damn hell?


Another part of that site:
Fed spends 15 million to figure out why lesbians are fat

The NIH is funding studies to determine why nearly three-quarters of adult lesbians are overweight or obese, compared to half of heterosexual women. (AP Photo)

Is that a real stat? I'm actually curious to see the results of that study when they come out.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Another part of that site:
Fed spends 15 million to figure out why lesbians are fat

Is that a real stat? I'm actually curious to see the results of that study when they come out.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/03/nih-lesbian-fat-study/63007/

Speaks to the credibility of CNS though.

 

[Thump553]

* * *

Another part of that site:
Fed spends 15 million to figure out why lesbians are fat

Is that a real stat? I'm actually curious to see the results of that study when they come out.

Easy-they eat out a lot.

Please have Uncle Sam paypal me the 15M.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Basically he's quoting an article from a website for people who accidentally type "cns news" instead of "cbs news". Look on your keyboard and you'll see the two are right next to each other. This is sort of like how scammers will register a site like faceboock.com or faccebook.com and hope people enter their account information.

Did anyone else notice the weird image on the left?

"FILE - A Nicaraguan Contra fighter and Sen. John Kerry (D- Mass.) in 1985. (AP file)"
What the god damn hell?


Another part of that site:
Fed spends 15 million to figure out why lesbians are fat

Is that a real stat? I'm actually curious to see the results of that study when they come out.

Figures, so basically I was right.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/03/nih-lesbian-fat-study/63007/

Speaks to the credibility of CNS though.

ROFL Oh Lord...

 

[michal1980]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/03/nih-lesbian-fat-study/63007/

Speaks to the credibility of CNS though.

It does.

from your article:

"b) the funding and the focus on gay subjects is mostly correct; "

 

[Charles Kozierok]

It does.

from your article:

"b) the funding and the focus on gay subjects is mostly correct; "

I love how you've just completely dropped the actual subject of this thread.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

It does.

from your article:

"b) the funding and the focus on gay subjects is mostly correct; "

Ignored the rest of the article didn't you. I particularly liked this part.

All of which is to say, these headlines would have been accurate as the inverse: "Obama administration spends $1.5 million to figure out why straight men are fat." Or: "Obama administration spends $1.5 million to figure out why gay men have rocking bodies." Or perhaps: "America is overweight (except for gay men?) and scientists are trying to determine why."

See. Essentially it's saying that CNS and their ilk are completely misrepresenting the intent of the study to just be douches.

 

[fskimospy]

What I don't get is why people keep reading these websites. They are quite clearly utterly contemptuous of their audience and think they will believe anything they write.

You think liberals look down on conservatives intellect? Maybe they do. The people who really show the most contempt for conservatives' intellectual abilities are other conservatives though, as shown by the endless cycle of made up news and hysterical mailing lists that they use to bilk the faithful out of money through donations and selling things like gold.

 

[Incorruptible]

What I don't get is why people keep reading these websites. They are quite clearly utterly contemptuous of their audience and think they will believe anything they write.

You think liberals look down on conservatives intellect? Maybe they do. The people who really show the most contempt for conservatives' intellectual abilities are other conservatives though, as shown by the endless cycle of made up news and hysterical mailing lists that they use to bilk the faithful out of money through donations and selling things like gold.

Have you ever been to the universities and schools? Do you have any idea what happens to Conservatives/Libertarians?

Have you ever watched msnbc?

Maybe you dont remember this should refresh your memory

http://now.msn.com/ryan-rotela-flor...eportedly-suspended-for-not-stomping-on-jesus

 

[glenn1]

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/kerry-86-missile-defense-system-cancer-our-nation-s-defense

Thank God we had a leader with true vision 30 years ago.

Imagine what the world would be like today if we listened to such doubters and fools like John Kerry. Its shameful he's in such a high position today.

You do realize that you be correct on the larger point (SDI might not justify cost/benefit) while still doing it for incorrect motives (e.g. being more concerned about "upsetting" the Soviet Union than pursuing a truly disruptive technology solution to a real problem at the time).

So congratulations, John Kerry was on the wrong side of an issue that became moot with the death of the USSR less than a decade later. Unless your bigger point is that we should be celebrating Reagan's "true vision" to build a Maginot Line system that might be marginally useful to defend against a third-rate nation that may possibly be able to launch a warhead at us in another 5 years or so.

 

[michal1980]

I love how you've just completely dropped the actual subject of this thread.

Did I bring up the issue of government spend 1.5 million on studying why people are fat?