Time To End The War On Drugs

[Atomic Playboy]

Maybe some drug dealer will give your child heroine some day and they will die with an overdose. Is that what you want? This is a common technique nowadays to make new addicts. First they sell young adults MJ and then one day they say they dont have any to sell but they have something even better. They offer them a free sample. Usually after one dose they will become addicts. Then after going in and out of treatment and the emergency room they end up dead of an overdose. This is the ugly face of illegal drugs that you want to embrace. Sure we could make all drugs legal. In some countries you can walk into a drugstore and buy anythihg you want like little yellow MJ pills or morphine or bovine steroids. The problem is in the USA we test our drugs and there is more quality control. In other countries where you can buy anything there is no quality control and you never know what you are getting. Well maybe it is not quite that bad, but you know what I mean.

Sort of like how there's all sorts of booze peddlers hawking whiskey outside kindergartens across America AS WE SPEAK, right? Bring back prohibition!

 

[Moonbeam]

It's complicated, in my opinion. It is tempting to let the emotionally damaged flush themselves down the toilet by allowing themselves to drug themselves to death, removing the weight of carrying them from normal people's shoulders, but what these folk really seek is freedom from crushing emotional pain and for which they are not to blame, just as it would be nice if humanity were free of conservative brain defects. But you can't look yourself in the eye and have any self respect if you wish for the extermination of others for your own convenience when they are not really to blame. Oh, I know, conservatives are the first to want to let drug addicts sink, but that's because they were treated cruelly themselves as kids and they want others to suffer the pain of wearing a proper straight jacket like they do. So wishing on them what they wish on others almost seems like justice but it's not. There is no guilt there there is no personal choice to be had.

So the real thing we might want to do is cure our culture of things that cause unnecessary pain, things like having good psychological education and a strong safety net, things, again, that conservatives don't want to provide, first off because psychological knowledge scares the shit out of them, and secondly, because they don't want to pay for government help to the weak, themselves, for example. People like their brainwashing better than they like their own lives.

And besides, we know that suffering is what deepens the soul, that nobody with real wisdom or empathy hasn't know pain intimately. So what would happen in a world that was perfect?????

Then again, I don't think we are so close to it we need to worry too much about that just yet.

And as a liberal, I can't help telling other people how to live, other than, of course, what they do in the bedroom, so I don't want folk taking bad stuff like meth. I'm not so sure I want that legal, maybe some other stuff free from the government along with mandatory treatment at conservative expense. Let the folk who get high and addicted to money pay more taxes. It will jerk them off and enrage them, increasing their money drive. Money and dope are just drugs the government can tax.

 

[1prophet]

Americans will also have to address the culture of drug testing that is prevalent in many occupations both private and public, since many drugs unlike alcohol remain in the system long after use.

Get drunk Friday night, sleep it off Saturday and maybe Sunday, get tested on Monday no problem.


Get high on Friday night, get tested on Monday, oops now you might have a problem called unemployment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_test#Detection_periods

 

[UberNeuman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

The government doesn't have the right to tell people what they can do with there bodies as long as they dont hurt anyone else. Its violating there freedom.

Please, define "hurt."

 

[randomrogue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLsCC0LZxkY

The government doesn't have the right to tell people what they can do with there bodies as long as they dont hurt anyone else. Its violating there freedom.

The War On Drugs has been a massive failure and has actually increased crime and will never work.

Do you think the War On Drugs should be ended.

I'm cool with ending the war. Bring home our troops!

However could we maybe not legalize these zombie drugs? I'm all for making bath salts illegal and nuking zombies from orbit.

 

[Incorruptible]

Please, define "hurt."

Pretty much dont use force against others, no violence or violate their freedom. People should be able to do drugs since they only hurt themselves but if they force someone else to do it than that's illegal.

 

[UberNeuman]

Pretty much dont use force against others, no violence or violate their freedom. People should be able to do drugs since they only hurt themselves but if they force someone else to do it than that's illegal.

I'm sure the kid that had daddy eat his eyes out would disagree if he could see the thread....

 

[tcG]

I'm sure the kid that had daddy eat his eyes out would disagree if he could see the thread....

What's your point? That people are crazy, so we should outlaw everything that has the potential to bring out their craziness? The possible saving of a few lives isn't worth the widespread prohibition of the freedom to determine what you want to do with yourself. It's not the government's role to save you from yourself, and in the process of doing so, deciding on a federal level what are good and bad behaviors for free, responsible people to be engaging in.

Almost everybody seems to recognize this argument in favor of alcohol and tobacco staying legal, which happen to be far more harmful than many illegal drugs, but don't recognize it when it comes to the currently illegal drugs. The principle is exactly the same.

A vast majority of the bad events from hard drugs are from the fact that they are illegal. If all drugs were made legal, crime associated with drug dealing and cartels, government spending on drug interdiction and penalization efforts, and crime committed to support habits of drugs made expensive because of their being illegal would all plummet. As Milton Friedman pointed out in the video, there may be a few more people who get addicted to drugs because the punishment incentive not to use bad drugs would no longer be in place, but this is through the action of the people who themselves become addicted, and is not on the same level as an innocent who gets killed from the crime created by prohibition. A few more addicts is offset by greatly reduced crime, the abatement of the general ignorance about the good drugs that are currently illegal, reduced government expenditures, and increased personal freedom. EDIT: I'm not convinced that legalization would even result in more users.

 

[UberNeuman]

What's your point? That people are crazy, so we should outlaw everything that has the potential to bring out their craziness? The possible saving of a few lives isn't worth the widespread prohibition of the freedom to determine what you want to do with yourself. It's not the government's role to save you from yourself, and in the process of doing so, deciding on a federal level what are good and bad behaviors for free, responsible people to be engaging in.

"Daddy ate my eyes."

 

[Abraxas]

I'm sure the kid that had daddy eat his eyes out would disagree if he could see the thread....

See, that's my issue. On the one hand for a long time I was for full legalization. Your body, your choice. Then we have people eating the faces off other people while using things like bath salts or PCP and I have to wonder if it wouldn't be better to keep certain chemicals which are exceptionally prone to producing violent behavior illegal.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

"Daddy ate my eyes."

Yes, one horrific crime should be the basis for all our laws. A single horrific crime is always indicative of how everyone behaves. That's why all the drunks who have committed crimes have led to the criminalization of alcohol.

 

[UberNeuman]

Yes, one horrific crime should be the basis for all our laws. A single horrific crime is always indicative of how everyone behaves. That's why all the drunks who have committed crimes have led to the criminalization of alcohol.

so... pro PCP then?

\how about Adam's Law....

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

"It's not a war on drugs. It's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times" ~ Bill Hicks.

 

[umbrella39]

Maybe some drug dealer will give your child heroine some day and they will die with an overdose. Is that what you want? This is a common technique nowadays to make new addicts. First they sell young adults MJ and then one day they say they dont have any to sell but they have something even better. They offer them a free sample. Usually after one dose they will become addicts. Then after going in and out of treatment and the emergency room they end up dead of an overdose. This is the ugly face of illegal drugs that you want to embrace.

LMFAO! Yeah, that's how it happens all the time alright! People die every day from legal and illegal drugs. I bet most have given their kids a sip of beer, wine, champagne before they could legally drink. Are they pushers, too, now leading them down the spiral of alcoholism, insanity, and death? If a child is raised that retarded that they can be so easily manipulated, molded, and lead astray you didn't do your job as a parent. Sounds like in your contrived scenario the evil drug dealer just saved you a lot of money and grief...

Hysteria and FUD for the huge freaking loss...

 

[nanette1985]

It's Doctors these days who push drugs. You can't go to a doc without getting drugs for whatever your condition is. That's where people get the idea that drugs are what will fix whatever their problem is. We lost the war on drugs a long time ago.

 

[Ninjahedge]

No, they need to regulate many of the drugs out there. Both street and perscription.

Certain ones like pot are worthless to make illegal. They should be made legal and taxed like tobacco. It would STILL be cheaper than buying off the grid AND we would be making money from it (governmental).

Prescription patents need to be classified into ranks allowing some a bit more freedom of charge than another. You want to keep the trademark for an antidepressant for 5 years and charge crap-loads of money for it? Fine, but don't do the same with a blood pressure regulation pharm or something that could help slow Alzheimers. That is just extortion.

Some drugs are destructive. Meth. PCP. They pose a danger to more than just the user and can cost us money to keep the user alive later on down the road. Even though these will still be made available through illegal channels (and money made from it), we can't let some of these high-octane derivatives on the open market.

Some things are difficult. I say coca leaves are fine, but selling cocaine is just insane. I am amazed that we actually let things like caffeine be sold as a substance... maybe because it is not as destructive, but it is still a concentrated substance with a natural source.

We have already shown that Prohibition does not work and just finances crime, so the over-regulation of substances is just a self-perpetuating cycle that funds more crime requiring more money for law enforcement (thus lowering availability and "cost of production" and further financing the market...etc etc).

We do not need to end the war, per se, but we do need to stop using that stupid frigging euphemism. Waging war on a substance or ideology (terrorism) is just a soundbyte that can be permutated into something different down the road. It is a dangerous political tool that can be used to hurt rather than help and it needs to be stopped.

 

[dank69]

"Daddy ate my eyes."

Your argument basically boils down to 'won't someone think of the children?'

 

[dank69]

The reason i want most hard drugs DECRIMINALIZED not legalized, is because when consumed they have the potential to make you hurt others. When im stoned I dont want to hurt anyone, but if I ever did cocaine..........who knows what i would do. I think we should be careful because we are dealing with mind and body altering substances that could lead to violence.

I don't think cocaine does what you think it does. :hmm:

Maybe in absurd quantities.

 

[Darwin333]

The reason i want most hard drugs DECRIMINALIZED not legalized, is because when consumed they have the potential to make you hurt others. When im stoned I dont want to hurt anyone, but if I ever did cocaine..........who knows what i would do. I think we should be careful because we are dealing with mind and body altering substances that could lead to violence.

Yes those drugs do tend to lead to violence but you have the reason for that violence all wrong. The reason they tend to lead to violence is BECAUSE they are illegal which makes it very profitable to sell them on the black market. High profit markets dominated by criminals and gangs tend to turn violent.

As far as people getting violent because they take them, the #1 drug by FAR that leads a person to be violent when they otherwise wouldn't is alcohol.

 

[Genx87]

The reason i want most hard drugs DECRIMINALIZED not legalized, is because when consumed they have the potential to make you hurt others. When im stoned I dont want to hurt anyone, but if I ever did cocaine..........who knows what i would do. I think we should be careful because we are dealing with mind and body altering substances that could lead to violence.

But people already consume these drugs. Outside of some random event the vast majority do not go on violent killing spree's. So what has been accomplished by outlawing these drugs? A black market was created due to the demand from consumers. This black market is completely unregulated, untaxed, and disputes are solved by violence. Violence which is the center point of your argument for why they should remain illegal.

 

[Genx87]

They also regulate prescription and over the counter drugs as well. I'll never understand why people want no regulation. No regulation (or massively fraudulent drug trials) you get drugs like Vioxx which killed thousands and possibly even hundreds of thousands.

Vioxx was regulated and it caused a lot of problems. While I support regulation of the market. Using vioxx as an example of why completely unregulated markets have problems is rather silly. You dont have to look far in this debate to prove a completely unregulated market has issues. The illegal drug market is unregulated completely. It is violent, expensive, and destructive.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Dar, it is easier to contain a drunk than to contain a meth-head or PCP rager.


Geez, don't you remember NARC?

 

[Linflas]

It should have never been started. It along with the late comer war on terror has done more in my lifetime to infringe on our liberties we used to cherish as Americans across the ideological spectrum. It has likely forever altered the general public's relationship with the police and government at all levels. To save myself from typing it out all over again I will just copy what I posted in a thread in OT:

As much as people like to denigrate the slippery slope the expansion of police powers unthinkable just 30 years ago is an amazing thing to behold. In 1978 people would have looked at you like you were from Mars if you predicted that police in 2012, many times wearing paramilitary uniforms, would regularly set up road blocks to check for drunk drivers or search people and their cars during routine traffic stops. Yet thanks to angry mothers, the so called "war on drugs", and the threat of terrorism here we are putting up with it all and more.

 

[Darwin333]

Maybe some drug dealer will give your child heroine some day and they will die with an overdose. Is that what you want? This is a common technique nowadays to make new addicts. First they sell young adults MJ and then one day they say they dont have any to sell but they have something even better. They offer them a free sample. Usually after one dose they will become addicts. Then after going in and out of treatment and the emergency room they end up dead of an overdose. This is the ugly face of illegal drugs that you want to embrace. Sure we could make all drugs legal. In some countries you can walk into a drugstore and buy anythihg you want like little yellow MJ pills or morphine or bovine steroids. The problem is in the USA we test our drugs and there is more quality control. In other countries where you can buy anything there is no quality control and you never know what you are getting. Well maybe it is not quite that bad, but you know what I mean.

Psst, if we make them legal (like alcohol and cigs) there is absolutely no profit motive for that gang banger to get a kid hooked on heroin. Go ask just about any teenager whats easier to get, alcohol or illegal drugs. Almost all of them will say illegal drugs, wanna know why? Its actually quite simple, alcohol is regulated and drugs are not. Drug dealers don't give a shit how old you are as long as you have money. Legalizing and regulating drugs puts those gang bangers completely out of business

As an example there were recently some black market drugs on the market in south korea that were marketed as some kind of health aid drugs. However, in the pills was the dried ground up residue from babies that were left to die in death rooms in China. They just added a few herbs and what not and called it a health addative.

http://www.newsoxy.com/health/human-flesh-capsules-70260.html

That isn't a concern if they are regulated.

 

[hal2kilo]

As far as people getting violent because they take them, the #1 drug by FAR that leads a person to be violent when they otherwise wouldn't is alcohol.

This.