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Time to cite for contempt and arrest another one.

There is nothing in the relevant statute that say anything about a legislative purpose. It is clear and unambiguous that it will be provided if requested. They don’t even need to give a reason.

It is also important to remember that the entire reason this law exists is in reaction to an executive branch corruption scandal. It was literally made for this exact purpose.
 
Imo, this should be the preferred target for proceedings rather than the attorney general.

Let the situation with Barr play out, and open a new front rather than wear out the Russia drum.

Probably be least legal ambiguity as well.
 
Bitek said:
Imo, this should be the preferred target for proceedings rather than the attorney general.

Let the situation with Barr play out, and open a new front rather than wear out the Russia drum.

Probably be least legal ambiguity as well.
Click to expand...

The citation for contempt and arrest by the House puts Barr in a position where we want him because the DOJ has decided to obstruct an investigation on grounds that never applied to begin with. This forces Barr to go to the SCOTUS and argue something for which there was never a basis. As said above there is no legislative need or intent in question as the law upon which the "shall issue" order is based has zero to do with anything Treasury and the DOJ is claiming. What a shitty prospect for a defense. Meanwhile, Mnuchin can enjoy his historic view from the Congressional holding cell.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
The citation for contempt and arrest by the House puts Barr in a position where we want him because the DOJ has decided to obstruct an investigation on grounds that never applied to begin with. This forces Barr to go to the SCOTUS and argue something for which there was never a basis. As said above there is no legislative need or intent in question as the law upon which the "shall issue" order is based has zero to do with anything Treasury and the DOJ is claiming. What a shitty prospect for a defense. Meanwhile, Mnuchin can enjoy his historic view from the Congressional holding cell.
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This is where things could get weird, what if the President orders the FBI to free him?
What happens if the House won’t open the door?
What happens if the President orders them to go in guns drawn, I can easily imagine fat boy issuing that order.
Would his cabinet revolt and we have President Pence?
Doesn’t the senate control the Capitol Police, what happens if the Military arrives to free munchin and the capitol Police are guarding him.

I think Pelosi & Democrat’s would blink and backdown.
 
Clearly the only way to get this administration to follow the law is to start arresting agency heads and cabinet officials who won't comply.
 
Fanatical Meat said:
This is where things could get weird, what if the President orders the FBI to free him?
What happens if the House won’t open the door?
What happens if the President orders them to go in guns drawn, I can easily imagine fat boy issuing that order.
Would his cabinet revolt and we have President Pence?
Doesn’t the senate control the Capitol Police, what happens if the Military arrives to free munchin and the capitol Police are guarding him.

I think Pelosi & Democrat’s would blink and backdown.
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Not happening. The FBI would sooner arrest Trump and DOJ, Executive Branch or not, the duty lies in their oath.

The military cannot follow that order as it would be unlawful. He can order anything he likes but oaths of office are to the Constitution first, in some cases the Executive next but never, ever can they take the the illegal actions you suggest. Aliens from the Andromeda Galaxy will invade first.

In essence, Trump would be ordering an armed insurrection and holding Office will not protect him and memos be damned.
 
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Mnuchin may be right that the statute won't withstand Constitutional review by the SCOTUS. So, Dems will just have to file suit.

Neither Mnuchin nor Barr will be arrested anytime RSN, either. Going on about how they should be is just a backhanded way of attacking the Dems. So weak. Blah-blah-blah.
 
Fanatical Meat said:
Yup it gets weird capitol Police are controlled by a 3 member board
CAPitol architect
Sergeant at Arms
and some dude I forgot appointed by the Senate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Police_Board
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Remember what you are suggesting Trump might do is making war against the United States in attempting to invade Congress to get Mnuchin or anyone else being held. This is the Constitutional Definition of treason and all participants would be guilty as well with consequences possibly being death, a very real possibility.

Not even Slow will sign up for that.

Anyway the House cites contempt and tells the Sgt at arms to enlist the Capitol Police and their jurisdiction is DC, the entire US and territories. If it is part of the US they can act within it. They could in theory snag Mnuchin as he leaves his home and haul his ass before the House. Then Barr can use his ridiculous DOJ excuse before the SCOTUS, assuming they hear him at all.
 
Jhhnn said:
Mnuchin may be right that the statute won't withstand Constitutional review by the SCOTUS. So, Dems will just have to file suit.

Neither Mnuchin nor Barr will be arrested anytime RSN, either. Going on about how they should be is just a backhanded way of attacking the Dems. So weak. Blah-blah-blah.
Click to expand...

They can. Whether they will depend on if they listen to jellyfish apologists or use their Constitutionally derived powers. In case you don't know it IS THE DEMS and some others who support it. Now they are the apologist's "enemy of the people"? So it would seem.
 
Jhhnn said:
Mnuchin may be right that the statute won't withstand Constitutional review by the SCOTUS. So, Dems will just have to file suit.

Neither Mnuchin nor Barr will be arrested anytime RSN, either. Going on about how they should be is just a backhanded way of attacking the Dems. So weak. Blah-blah-blah.
Click to expand...

What possible argument would there be that this would not withstand constitutional review?

Like even if I’m trying to come up with the dumbest, most nonsensical one ever I can’t think of one.
 
fskimospy said:
What possible argument would there be that this would not withstand constitutional review?

Like even if I’m trying to come up with the dumbest, most nonsensical one ever I can’t think of one.
Click to expand...

He sure seems to be arguing as the defense for the Administration. It is not up to Mnuchin to determine what will or not withstand SCOTUS review and that assumes that the SCOTUS will hear the case to begin with. Dems don't have to file suit although they can. The idea that Congress as a branch is the dog for the Executive to kick is absurd. They can hold Mnuchin in contempt while they get the tax returns and more from Deutsche Bank just for a start.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
The citation for contempt and arrest by the House puts Barr in a position where we want him because the DOJ has decided to obstruct an investigation on grounds that never applied to begin with. This forces Barr to go to the SCOTUS and argue something for which there was never a basis. As said above there is no legislative need or intent in question as the law upon which the "shall issue" order is based has zero to do with anything Treasury and the DOJ is claiming. What a shitty prospect for a defense. Meanwhile, Mnuchin can enjoy his historic view from the Congressional holding cell.
Click to expand...

Politically I think going after Barr will be difficult.

While a strong majority think Trump is not telling the truth on the Russia matter, it has been highly visible and debated for two years and the camps are highly entrenched. I think there is a real danger of solely focusing on and escalating the Russia matter. We have a pretty strongly formed opinions on whether Trump cheated and obstructed. It's just down to enforcing the penalties at this point.
Otherwise it drowns out everything else going on.

The tax returns have been simmering in the background, but has a significant chance at driving at a totally different Trump narrative (is he a real business success, or just a fraudster.) Plus it can also inform us of Trump's potential motives towards Russia.

Lastly, I think Mnochin is a weak little bitch who will crack in an instant. He came from a career in Hollywood and banking. He's recently married. Presumably he wants to return to that life in the private sector. Disgraced, pigfaced and in cuffs? Tough image to sell yourself on.

Otoh Barr is old AF, a politico, and firmly in a legal career path in it's twilight. Going to prison for Trump may actually win him credibility in certain deplorable circles.

Seeing an unphotogenic mnochin get worked over first may soften the public up for seeing the AG go down, and hopefully cause the AG/DOJ reconsider it's path.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
He sure seems to be arguing as the defense for the Administration. It is not up to Mnuchin to determine what will or not withstand SCOTUS review and that assumes that the SCOTUS will hear the case to begin with. Dems don't have to file suit although they can. The idea that Congress as a branch is the dog for the Executive to kick is absurd. They can hold Mnuchin in contempt while they get the tax returns and more from Deutsche Bank just for a start.
Click to expand...

The law is super clear, if the chairman asks for it he gets it. The legal argument that Mnuchin is using is that this request lacks a legislative purpose. Even if that were true it is irrelevant.
 
I think the HoR needs to dust off that little jail they have in the basement. I'd prefer gen pop in some overcrowded hole, but that won't happen.

Time to nut up Dems. Sometimes you need unprecedented reactions for unprecedented behavior.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Remember what you are suggesting Trump might do is making war against the United States in attempting to invade Congress to get Mnuchin or anyone else being held. This is the Constitutional Definition of treason and all participants would be guilty as well with consequences possibly being death, a very real possibility.

Not even Slow will sign up for that.
Click to expand...

How about the despicables

Or

Brandonbull?
 
fskimospy said:
The law is super clear, if the chairman asks for it he gets it. The legal argument that Mnuchin is using is that this request lacks a legislative purpose. Even if that were true it is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Bitek said:
Politically I think going after Barr will be difficult.

While a strong majority think Trump is not telling the truth on the Russia matter, it has been highly visible and debated for two years and the camps are highly entrenched. I think there is a real danger of solely focusing on and escalating the Russia matter. We have a pretty strongly formed opinions on whether Trump cheated and obstructed. It's just down to enforcing the penalties at this point.
Otherwise it drowns out everything else going on.

The tax returns have been simmering in the background, but has a significant chance at driving at a totally different Trump narrative (is he a real business success, or just a fraudster.) Plus it can also inform us of Trump's potential motives towards Russia.

Lastly, I think Mnochin is a weak little bitch who will crack in an instant. He came from a career in Hollywood and banking. He's recently married. Presumably he wants to return to that life in the private sector. Disgraced, pigfaced and in cuffs? Tough image to sell yourself on.

Otoh Barr is old AF, a politico, and firmly in a legal career path in it's twilight. Going to prison for Trump may actually win him credibility in certain deplorable circles.

Seeing an unphotogenic mnochin get worked over first may soften the public up for seeing the AG go down, and hopefully cause the AG/DOJ reconsider it's path.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if Barr is willing to go down with the USS Rat. Likely he thinks he cannot be touched and history has shown he has a good reason. The House really needs to smack that smug look off his face with real penalties. We have been moving towards an imperial presidency for far too long, going back to at least Ron R. No matter what political side one is on it's got to stop and not kept until revenge can be had. At that point, I'd legalize duels with swords to settle things and I'm only half joking. At least that would require some courage and the harm comes to each other.

There's no point in pushing Russia as we've simply lost that one which of course allows Trump to make pals with Putin for help in 2020, something Barr is fine with. But criminality is another matter. He's already Individual 1, a known criminal if not prosecuted because of position. Obstruction is also a given no matter how Barr lies about it, another reason to hold him accountable in a way that hurts. BTW, there's no time like prison time, and Barr does not want to go to prison, at all.
 
kage69 said:
I think the HoR needs to dust off that little jail they have in the basement. I'd prefer gen pop in some overcrowded hole, but that won't happen.

Time to nut up Dems. Sometimes you need unprecedented reactions for unprecedented behavior.
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Would be great if Nancy ordered a cleaning crew to make sure it all works and a jail contractor to install new locks/bars.

That’s the way to troll...
 
Fanatical Meat said:
Would be great if Nancy ordered a cleaning crew to make sure it all works and a jail contractor to install new locks/bars.

That’s the way to troll...
Click to expand...

I can definitely see Pelosi doing something like that, but I'd prefer they cut right to the chase and just start jailing people. There have been enough warnings, enough ongoing obstruction. Take that unitary executive bullshit with you to jail Mnuchin, maybe you can pad a cot with it.

That guy looks softer than cream cheese. I expect doing time wouldn't be easy for him, or Barr. But, as Cheney used to say, to the applause of many of a republican, "Tougher measures for tougher customers."
 
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Hayabusa Rider said:
They can. Whether they will depend on if they listen to jellyfish apologists or use their Constitutionally derived powers. In case you don't know it IS THE DEMS and some others who support it. Now they are the apologist's "enemy of the people"? So it would seem.
Click to expand...

Right there you executed the backhanded attack I mentioned. Dems will obviously be weak & fucked up if they don't arrest these two, right? Jellyfish apologists? Really?

It's dumb as fuck for Dems to potentially set federal LEO against each other over this or over Barr's contempt of Congress.
 
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