Time To Admit It: the church was right on birth control

[Texashiker]

Interesting article about the effects of birth control on society,

http://www.businessinsider.com/time...has-always-been-right-on-birth-control-2012-2

In a 1968 document called Humanae Vitae Pope Paul VI warned of four results if the widespread use of contraceptives was accepted:

• General lowering of moral standards
• A rise in infidelity, and illegitimacy
• The reduction of women to objects used to satisfy men.
• Government coercion in reproductive matters.

Instead of two parents being responsible for the children they conceive, an expectation that was held up by social norms and by the law, we now take it for granted that neither parent is necessarily responsible for their children. Men are now considered to be fulfilling their duties merely by paying court-ordered child-support. That's a pretty dramatic lowering of standards for "fatherhood."

Has our society degraded that neither parent is responsible for the child they created?

The mother has not obligation to carry the child to term. If she wishes she can abort the child.

The father has no obligation besides paying child support, medical co-pays and providing health insurance.

The article then touches on marriage,

As George Akerloff wrote in Slate over a decade ago,

By making the birth of the child the physical choice of the mother, the sexual revolution has made marriage and child support a social choice of the father.

Instead of two parents being responsible for the children they conceive, an expectation that was held up by social norms and by the law, we now take it for granted that neither parent is necessarily responsible for their children. Men are now considered to be fulfilling their duties merely by paying court-ordered child-support. That's a pretty dramatic lowering of standards for "fatherhood."

In 1960, 5.3% of all births in America were to unmarried women.
By 2010, it was 40.8%

And liberals call this progress?

 

[brycejones]

Herp derp posting in a th thread.

 

[waggy]

yeah.. i don't think any of that can be blamed on birth control.

frankly i think TV/movies have more blame then birth control

 

[z1ggy]

Pretty obvious birth control is a good thing. Firstly, a lot of the things in birth control pills help women regulate hormones which help with acne and skin problems.

Secondly, if way less people used birth control, I'm willing to bet crime rates would sky rocket once those kids reach the teen years.

 

[brycejones]

All I really get from the ops latest threads is he wants to go back to the days of no birth control and back alley abortions.

 

[Capt Caveman]

yeah.. i don't think any of that can be blamed on birth control.

frankly i think TV/movies have more blame then birth control

Of course but the OP wouldn't be an ignorant troll if he realized that.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You are confusing history with "the good old days".

After all Victorian Era people were proper and chaste, right? No, a right bawdy lot they were.

 

[nehalem256]

You are confusing history with "the good old days".

After all Victorian Era people were proper and chaste, right? No, a right bawdy lot they were.

How is that possible given the lack of effective birth control and low out-of-wedlock birthrate?

 

[waggy]

You are confusing history with "the good old days".

After all Victorian Era people were proper and chaste, right? No, a right bawdy lot they were.

bullshit! women having sex for recreation is NEW! never happened before birth control!



lol.

Birth control has far more good then evil.

 

[HumblePie]

How is that possible given the lack of effective birth control and low out-of-wedlock birthrate?

The low out of wed-lock birth rate wasn't as low as you think. It was among "nobles" sort of, despite having the term bastard coined for a nobles out of wed lock git.

Also, women tended to get stoned to death or tortured for it back then. Great moral values society had back then. Get raped by a man, have a baby, and then get stoned to death.

 

[Newell Steamer]

There is one thing the church did not predict,... how all these woman are getting knocked up and forcing young men in commas to pay for babies that aren't even theirs!! Imagine the horror, of being a male in a comma and having to pay for a baby that isn't even yours!!!

Actually, the church didn't predict how people would act so mindless over what a person chooses to do with their own body.

But, of couse that is a lost point, because the OP knows a man who knows a guy that once heard from a man that was once in a town across the street from where his cousin use to live 20 years ago, that he had to pay child support but didn't want to, on account of how the baby came from lady parts and thus her responsibility.

 

[nehalem256]

The low out of wed-lock birth rate wasn't as low as you think. It was among "nobles" sort of, despite having the term bastard coined for a nobles out of wed lock git.

Also, women tended to get stoned to death or tortured for it back then. Great moral values society had back then. Get raped by a man, have a baby, and then get stoned to death.

Do you have any evidence of that?

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/famhist/genealgy/illegit.htm

So since we can safely conclude the rate of bastards was quite low perhaps you can show evidence of the 10,000s of yearly stonings that would be necessary to prevent out-of-wedlock pregnancies from resulting in births.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The low out of wed-lock birth rate wasn't as low as you think. It was among "nobles" sort of, despite having the term bastard coined for a nobles out of wed lock git.

Also, women tended to get stoned to death or tortured for it back then. Great moral values society had back then. Get raped by a man, have a baby, and then get stoned to death.

I'm having trouble finding references to stonings during the Victorian Era.

 

[Orignal Earl]

You should do some reading up on poor women in Quebec and Ireland 50 years ago

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So since we can safely conclude the rate of bastards was quite low perhaps you can show evidence of the 10,000s of yearly stonings that would be necessary to prevent out-of-wedlock pregnancies from resulting in births.

What you have presented is a graph of reported births in parishes during over a large time frame. Note "reported". Now if you were to go to London for example I believe that you wouldn't have such a nice sample. It seems to me that people back then screwed, and the "nice" England wasn't very.

 

[nehalem256]

What you have presented is a graph of reported births in parishes during over a large time frame. Note "reported". Now if you were to go to London for example I believe that you wouldn't have such a nice sample. It seems to me that people back then screwed, and the "nice" England wasn't very.

That is why I included the graph for the US rate from 1940 onward.

Note that the 1940s rate appears to approximately line up with 1900 rate.

Do you have your own source that contradicts mine?

 

[thraashman]

Let's examine the "consequences" of birth control listed.
General lowering of moral standards
As opposed to the "moral" standard of the first half of the 20th century. You know the one where we had 2 world wars and women and black people didn't have civil rights.
A rise in infidelity, and illegitimacy
The problem with this is that it's likely not any more true than it used to be. The difference now is that divorce is more socially acceptable and everyone airs their personal business that they used to just fight in the home about.
The reduction of women to objects used to satisfy men.
As opposed to women being objects used to cook you dinner and raise your children?
Government coercion in reproductive matters.
The government has always involved itself in reproductive matters. Thinking that's changed is to be gullible.

 

[Geosurface]

My understanding is that in Jamaica it is highly scandalous to have a child out of dreadlock.

 

[Oyeve]

The problem is not birth control. Its marriage and religion thats the problem.

 

[Texashiker]

The problem is not birth control. Its marriage and religion thats the problem.

How is marriage and religion a problem?

 

[Oyeve]

How is marriage and religion a problem?

How is it not????

 

[alzan]

Don't we all just love sensational article headlines, "research" that only covers 50 years rather than the span of recorded history and the false conclusions reached?

 

[surfsatwerk]

How is it not????

Case Closed!

 

[nehalem256]

How is it not????

To avoid poverty a woman is better off marrying a guy with just a HS diploma than being a college educated single mom.

 

[NTMBK]

The problem is not birth control. Its marriage and religion thats the problem.

No, the problem is TexasHiker.