TIME on Wikileaks - Interesting POV

[Scotteq]

Source: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2034284,00.html?xid=rss-fullworld-yahoo

A remarkably broad consensus has formed that WikiLeaks' latest data dump is a diplomatic disaster for the U.S. While there are debates over how the Obama Administration should respond, everyone agrees that the revelations have weakened America. But have they? I don't deny for a moment that many of the "wikicables" are intensely embarrassing, but the sum total of the output I have read is actually quite reassuring about the way Washington — or at least the State Department — works.

First, there is little deception. These leaks have been compared to the Pentagon papers. Which they are not. The Pentagon papers revealed that the U.S. engaged in a systematic campaign to deceive the world and the American people and that its private actions were often the opposite of its stated public policy. The WikiLeaks documents, by contrast, show Washington pursuing privately pretty much the policies it has articulated publicly. Whether on Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan or North Korea, the cables confirm what we know to be U.S. foreign policy. And often this foreign policy is concerned with broader regional security, not narrow American interests. Ambassadors are not caught pushing other countries in order to make deals secretly to strengthen the U.S., but rather to solve festering problems.



Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2034284,00.html#ixzz16yEOM13p

Please do take a few moments to read the whole article.

 

[ElFenix]

zakaria is one of the few people on CNN actually worth paying attention to. unlike every other anchor he actually knows wtf he is talking about, and so actually knows what questions to ask. that's important.

 

[sunzt]

zakaria is one of the few people on CNN actually worth paying attention to. unlike every other anchor he actually knows wtf he is talking about, and so actually knows what questions to ask. that's important.

Agreed. I like his GPS show too. No idea why its called Fareed Zakaria GPS though.

 

[SamurAchzar]

That's spot on, and ideally would have shut conspiracy theorists right up (that US went to Iraq for oil, etc; there's genuine concern for the actions of Arab/Muslim states). However these are terribly bad for any relations of trust between US and other countries in the future. While the contents are generally positive and are likely to bring positive actions, the leak itself is devastating.

On the same token, you can have the CIA come forward with all evidence from Iran, exposing sources and operatives. Sure, it'd go a great length towards convincing the world of the true intents of the Iranians (actually the world is very well aware, just the liberals aren't), but it'll be a disaster otherwise.

 

[Anarchist420]

Obama needs to be embarrassed. The whole government needs to be embarrassed. People who voted for Obama/McCain need to be embarrassed. They need to have their pants pulled down and their genital warts exposed. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that I'm ashamed of our military, and really think they shouldn't get any more pay and that their benefits should be cut off. I'm sick of those arrogant SOBs thinking they're saving the world when all they're doing is endangering everyone and driving us further into debt.

Wikileaks is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe if it's bad for diplomacy and the rest of the world starts hating us, then we'll stop electing piles of shit like Obama.

 

[5150Joker]

Yet Sarah Palin is saying Assange should be treated like Al-Qaida. So essentially Sarah Palin is saying big government is a good thing and it should be secretive. That goes against the core values of being a Republican doesn't it? Yeah she's affiliated with the Tea Party but they're just glorified right wing Republicans. And the Time's article is right, a lot of the cables I read so far are consistent with US policy thus far. If anything, they expose embarrassing situations for foreign governments rather than the US.

 

[Bowfinger]

Interesting, thanks. Based on what's been revealed so far, I saw this as a lot of knee-jerk hysteria designed to sell papers (i.e., increase ratings), divert attention from more substantive issues, and likely build a PR case that could be used to safely crush WikiLeaks before it really builds strong public support. Yes, there are a few juicy, embarrassing comments, but there's really nothing too surprising. At most some countries have had their assumptions confirmed with new levels of detail.

The Times piece raises a point I hadn't really considered, that these leaks are actually fairly positive to the U.S. Once we get past the initial embarrassment, they may ultimately help reduce some concerns about U.S. foreign policy. If Assange's intent truly was to hurt the U.S. -- debatable in itself -- he failed. Hopefully he'll have better luck against BoA or whatever mega-bank he's set to expose.

 

[Generator]

The leaks are helpful to America because the truth from transparency is righteousness. The United States needs to embrace truth and lead the way for the world! Let the fascists fumble about as they find their conflicting talking points. Marbles in the mouth and in the brain. Hilarious!

There use to be a time when American was a proud, truthful citizen. These days? Looks like were making a Russian reboot on FUCKING FAIL. Coming this summer! Bankruptcy in the heartland. Where your neighbor is a spy and so is your doctor. And a bureaucrat is at your back with a hypodermic needle.

GOD BLESS THE USSA!!!

Go back to Russia fascist scum.

 

[Infohawk]

The leaks are helpful to America because the truth from transparency is righteousness. The United States needs to embrace truth and lead the way for the world! Let the fascists fumble about as they find their conflicting talking points. Marbles in the mouth and in the brain. Hilarious!

There use to be a time when American was a proud, truthful citizen. These days? Looks like were making a Russian reboot on FUCKING FAIL. Coming this summer! Bankruptcy in the heartland. Where your neighbor is a spy and so is your doctor. And a bureaucrat is at your back with a hypodermic needle.

GOD BLESS THE USSA!!!

Go back to Russia fascist scum.

Last line is especially lulzy...

 

[RightIsWrong]

Yet Sarah Palin is saying Assange should be treated like Al-Qaida. So essentially Sarah Palin is saying big government is a good thing and it should be secretive. That goes against the core values of being a Republican doesn't it? Yeah she's affiliated with the Tea Party but they're just glorified right wing Republicans. And the Time's article is right, a lot of the cables I read so far are consistent with US policy thus far. If anything, they expose embarrassing situations for foreign governments rather than the US.

And Palin has....what? exactly to do with this story or the OP's commentary?

 

[Perknose]

Obama needs to be embarrassed. The whole government needs to be embarrassed. People who voted for Obama/McCain need to be embarrassed. They need to have their pants pulled down and their genital warts exposed. In fact, I'll go as far as to say that I'm ashamed of our military, and really think they shouldn't get any more pay and that their benefits should be cut off. I'm sick of those arrogant SOBs thinking they're saving the world when all they're doing is endangering everyone and driving us further into debt.

Wikileaks is the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe if it's bad for diplomacy and the rest of the world starts hating us, then we'll stop electing piles of shit like Obama.

Your post is provocative but your history of measured, sane, well-considered input on this forum saves you from . . . oh, wait. :awe:

 

[Tab]

Interesting, thanks. Based on what's been revealed so far, I saw this as a lot of knee-jerk hysteria designed to sell papers (i.e., increase ratings), divert attention from more substantive issues, and likely build a PR case that could be used to safely crush WikiLeaks before it really builds strong public support. Yes, there are a few juicy, embarrassing comments, but there's really nothing too surprising. At most some countries have had their assumptions confirmed with new levels of detail.

The Times piece raises a point I hadn't really considered, that these leaks are actually fairly positive to the U.S. Once we get past the initial embarrassment, they may ultimately help reduce some concerns about U.S. foreign policy. If Assange's intent truly was to hurt the U.S. -- debatable in itself -- he failed. Hopefully he'll have better luck against BoA or whatever mega-bank he's set to expose.

True however,

The author and many in media have literally failed to mention the US Government has repeated lied to us about the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars. We turned a blind eye to the Iraqi Armies abuse of prisoners, threatened Germany with retaliation if they arrested our agents whom arrested an innocent German citizen without due process, etc, etc, etc.

Many of things done not only were obviously immoral, probably illegal but extremely wreckless. Was anything done about this? Was anyone fired? Were any policies changed?

No.

Not to mention, many of these records really don't need to be classified in the first place, why is the government hiding this from it's citizens?

 

[ElFenix]

True however,

The author and many in media have literally failed to mention the US Government has repeated lied to us about the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars. We turned a blind eye to the Iraqi Armies abuse of prisoners, threatened Germany with retaliation if they arrested our agents whom arrested an innocent German citizen without due process, etc, etc, etc.

Many of things done not only were obviously immoral, probably illegal but extremely wreckless. Was anything done about this? Was anyone fired? Were any policies changed?

No.

Not to mention, many of these records really don't need to be classified in the first place, why is the government hiding this from it's citizens?

is any of that part of the new leaks? the article is about the new leaks.

 

[RebateMonger]

I'm not so sure about the virtue of our State Department. Recent leaks include the 2008 Somalian pirate hijacking of a Soviet cargo ship full of tanks. Even though the U.S.' official policy is to deny such arms to Sudan, the U.S. went along with Kenya's explanation that the tanks were intended for Kenya.

Now the Wikileaked cables tell us that State KNEW the tanks were intended for southern Sudan and had satellite photos of the previous shipment landing, being transported, and ending up on southern Sudanese bases. And we did nothing other to warn them to be more careful about how they ship their tanks to avoid future embarrassment.

 

[yllus]

I'm not so sure about the virtue of our State Department. Recent leaks include the 2008 Somalian pirate hijacking of a Soviet cargo ship full of tanks. Even though the U.S.' official policy is to deny such arms to Sudan, the U.S. went along with Kenya's explanation that the tanks were intended for Kenya.

Now the Wikileaked cables tell us that State KNEW the tanks were intended for southern Sudan and had satellite photos of the previous shipment landing, being transported, and ending up on southern Sudanese bases. And we did nothing other to warn them to be more careful about how they ship their tanks to avoid future embarrassment.

Is that what that cable said? I couldn't make heads or tails of what it was getting at.