Time for a new motherboard, is it time for 64-bit?

[Felecha]

My computer is getting flaky, with spontaneous freezes that I've been advised on this forum probably means the board (ABIT KT7RAID, Athlon 900 TBird) is the culprit.

5 years old, custom built at a local shop, so I figured why not just get a new board, and keep as much of the rest of everything as I can. I'm not looking to upgrade because of performance, the old bird still works OK for my purposes. I would like to get out of this as cheap as I can, but I don't want to go rock bottom - I am aware that the money I spent 5 years ago, toward the higher end then, did well. I sure would like to get another 5 years out of what I do now. That means some learning, and one of the first questions I have is - I see there are 64 bit CPU's out now. If I am looking for the future it seems I should go there. But I don't know what matters - what is Athlon 64, what is Athlon 64 FX, Athlon 64 X2?

I don't do any gaming. I'm a programmer, so I appreciate size and speed but video performance isn't a big deal for me.

Thanks for any advice

 

[ribbon13]

Athlon 64 is the standard 64bit desktop line
The FX is the high-end unlocked chips
X2 is dual core.

You're a programmer and want 5 years out of your machine. Sounds like you would be happy with an X2 3800+, unless you really need to save the cash.

If you have an AGP card, you could forego buying a new one and get this motherboard, and still be able to upgrade to a PCI-e video card later if you need/desire any more video performance. PCI-e is the new bus technology that's rapidly replacing AGP and will slowly replace PCI as well.

What RAM and PSU do you have already?

 

[Felecha]

768 RAM (came with 256, added 512)

PSU = Power Supply? 300W, I think. The receipt from the shop says

Inwin Q500A Full Tower 300

 

[Gadzookie]

whats your budget ? do you need a monitor and operating system as well ?

 

[Blitz KriegeR]

Going 64-bit supposedly helps Memory access and such, biggest improvements in Applications like Photoshop, GmaX, or any type or creation/programming software. However, going 64-Bit with an old system like that is a death wish. 64-Bit requires a set of new technologies that were not around 5 years ago. You'd need 1) New x64-x86 CPU (AMD 64/FX/X2). 2) New x64-bit OS (Windows XPx64). 3) New Socket 939 Motherboard. 4) Most likely new RAM, five-year-old ram might still be SD-RAM, all 939 Boards use DDR-SD-RAM. 5) New PCI-EX Graphics card as Ribbon13 mentioned, as all recent 939 boards use PCI-EX apposed to AGP. 6) As if this isn?t enough, upgrading all steps 1-5 will CERTAINLY land you a need for a new PSU, 300watts won?t power much today.

I suggest:
>Going 64-bit is a bonus right now, as nothing requires it yet. It could be years till this happens. If you're looking for a cheap fix to keep you going a while (1-2years) then just buy a simple motherboard to match the system you currently have, upgrade in a year or two.

 

[Felecha]

I was thinking of the 64 thing entirely in terms of the future. I'm not real deep into details of things like what's coming and when is it coming, but I knew it would come some day, like the change from 16 to 32 was a big deal. If I'm trying to think long, I don't want to be stuck with NEEDING to go to 64 in just a year or 2.

I have Windows XP Pro, which I hope will not object to the new hardware.

I have a lovely 21 inch Samsung SyncMaster 1100p monitor that I do not want to trade in, with a Matrox G400 video card, again I would surely like to keep that - video cards are not cheap. But this does seem to be one place where I'm going to face a dilemma - if I want to go newer tech with some things, I might have to let go of the Matrox.

I did know I would need a new CPU and RAM.

Budget? Nothing specific, I can get anything I want if I can justify it. Just that I am in the middle of 2 kids in college right now and watching a flood of money out the door and feeling like I should watch things closely. Like I said, if the current rig weren't freezing up all the time I could easily live with it for a long time more. But to hit the reset button on average once an hour is getting to be a real pain.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

XP pro will work just fine with an A64. Most users are still on 32-bit OS.

The motherboard ribbon13 suggested is a great idea if you're not a gamer and you want to keep using your existing AGP card without hurting your upgrade possibilities.

On a tight budget, pair up that motherboard with a 3000+ A64 venice and ~$100 for a gig of value ram (pc3200 DDR1).

 

[Skyhanger]

~$150 for a cheap 3000+ A64 Venice
or
~$350 for the cheapest 3800+ A64 X2 dual core. If you do any video encoding or data crunching, this will help.

The dual core is where things will go in the future. Chip makers have recently hit the MHz wall and are looking at more cores instead to get more performance. Both Intel and AMD will be coming out w/ new dual core/ quad core/ multi cores in the future.

~$100 will get you a quality motherboard. Any more will be waste
however that ~$70 ASrock Motherboard is the only way to keep using a AGP GPU while having a PCI-e option

getting a new PCI-e GPU will not be too expensive if you're not gaming. GPU prices are anywhere between $50-$500. As a programmer, a $50 card may be enough.

As for RAM, the current standard is DDR-3200. (I'm assuming yours is DDR-27000 or DDR-2100?) for AMD systems, even gamers can go with value RAM (due to AMD's efficient onboard memory controller)
2x512 RAM will be around ~$100
2x1GB RAM will be around ~$200

New motherboards use a 24-pin power supply. I assume yours is 20-pin. The extra 4 pins are to provide extra power to the GPU, so as long as your PSU is of standard ATX 20-pin format, you can still use it (leave the 4 pins unplugged). If you have anything older than ATX, you will need to get a new power supply for ~$50.

Currently, everyone still uses 32-bit Windows XP on their machines. 64-bit WinXP is already out, but no one is using it except servers due because of lack of software support.
Besides, Windows Vista is coming out soon (early 2007?) that will be a 64-bit OS.

 

[Felecha]

I keep seeing the term Venice so I looked it up and there is a Venice and a SanDiego out there. SanDiego has twice the cache? Is that a difference?

To clarify my usage, I do basic home stuff like Outlook Express for email, Word docs, Quicken, and playing around on the internet. I don't watch DVD's or do anything much with music. I program almost exclusively using Visual Studio .Net (mostly VB .Net) I would guess that's my most demanding use.

My current RAM is PC133, according to the shop receipt. I seem to remember that I got my box just a month or so before DDR hit.

Where do I go to count the PSU pins? Does that tell you about my rookie status?

 

[Skyhanger]

PC133 == DDR2100 just different names for the same thing

Look at the largest plug that come from your PSU and attaches to the motherboard. It would be nice to have a list of parts so we can check it up.

Also try to buy stuff off of the internet. It's cheaper that way. I think stores are overpriced due to state taxes, operating storefronts, and staffing cash registers. Online retailers only need to keep a warehouse and a secure website. The only real cost is shipping cost. So you might get better prices for cases and LCD panels at stores (not often).

 

[reader850]

No, his old PC133 memory is most likely SDR, not DDR, so it won't work in a new motherboard.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: reader850
No, his old PC133 memory is most likely SDR, not DDR, so it won't work in a new motherboard.

Right.

I'd be shocked if your CPU was 24-pin.

If you want something cheaper than what we're suggesting, you can certainly get something for even less money that will still handle all the basic stuff you mentioned.

 

[Felecha]

I found the power plug, and it's 20 wires.

The PSU is PowerMan FSP300 - 60BT

Am i right that the form factor will be OK? It's a full-tower ATX. I measured the current board at pretty close to 12" x 9". The ASRock specs at 12" x 8.3" I looked around and found another, a GigaByte, at 12" x 7.5" But as long as they are ATX I will find screw holes or whatever at the right points? The current board has 3 rows of screws, top middle and bottom. Sorry to be ignorant, but I don't want too many surprises. Cant learn without some surprises, of course.

The rest of the items are

Inwin Q500A Full Tower
2 Seagate 80GB ATA100, both new a couple of months ago, the original twin drives died inside of a week of each other!
LG CD-ROM CRD-8520B, 5 yrs old
Pioneer DVD-RW DVR-109, couple months old
plain old floppy drive, 5 yrs old
MS Optical wheel mouse, generic keyboard
USR 56K modem PCI (I actually have to use it for work), got from a friend a year ago
4-port USB2 PCI card
SoundBlaster SB0220, got it from a friend a couple months ago
Matrox G400 Millenium, 5 yrs old
Intel 21041 PCI Ethernet card, traded for it 3 years ago

I've been looking at Newegg, they've been nice to me. And I looked up ASRock, never heard of them before, but the review on AnandTech said it's from ASUS and tested very well.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

That case shouldn't be a problem if it's an atx case.

 

[DaveSimmons]

I'm a software developer (VC++, MFC) currently using a P4 3.2C (bought late 2003). I'd say the 3800+ X2 is a good choice for current use and future proofing. It gives you roughly 2 x P4 3.0-3.2 with less heat output then even a single P4 3.0E. Right now P4's are hot and slow by comparison to A64s.

1 GB RAM is fine since you aren't gaming.

XP Pro is fine and there's no real point to using XP 64 on the desktop yet except for niche workstation use (using over 4 GB of physical memory for massive data sets).

 

[Felecha]

YOyoYOhowsDAjello - gotta ask. I see eveybody as Member, Senior Member, Diamond Member, an occasional Lifer. You're a . . .Soundman?

 

[t3h l337 n3wb]

He has a kick@$$ sound system

Anyways, you're going to need a new mobo, new CPU, new RAM, and probably a new video card. I think you should probably get a new PSU too, since that looks like a crappy generic brand, which won't cut it if you're going for S939 with an A64.

 

[Felecha]

Would the PSU damage the new board in some way if it werent good enough?

 

[Felecha]

And I was just reading the specs on that ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 - it lists Athlon 64FX / Athlon 64 and Sempron as CPU's. But it was suggested by ribbon13 that I get an X2. Would it take an X2?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Felecha
YOyoYOhowsDAjello - gotta ask. I see eveybody as Member, Senior Member, Diamond Member, an occasional Lifer. You're a . . .Soundman?

Heh... yeah...

I tend to post in a lot of audio threads recommending things and trying to help people solve their problems they're having.

Mods noticed and here I am.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Felecha
And I was just reading the specs on that ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 - it lists Athlon 64FX / Athlon 64 and Sempron as CPU's. But it was suggested by ribbon13 that I get an X2. Would it take an X2?

Yeah.

From AT review "The ASRock also has no problem with Athlon x2, FX, or other Socket 939 CPUs"

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Felecha
Would the PSU damage the new board in some way if it werent good enough?

Possibly. More likely would be stability issues.

 

[Felecha]

And I found the manual at ASRock for the 939Dual-SATA2 and it definitely indicates there is a 4-pin plug and a 20-pin plug. So I guess the old PSU won't power that board

And . . . how do you guys do the quotes thing and links and all that?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Felecha
And I found the manual at ASRock for the 939Dual-SATA2 and it definitely indicates there is a 4-pin plug and a 20-pin plug. So I guess the old PSU won't power that board

And . . . how do you guys do the quotes thing and links and all that?

To do links, start a post by hitting reply and then hit the http button in the bar above the text block area.

There's a Quote button at the bottom right of my post here that you click to quote me over in the lower right corner \/

 

[Felecha]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
There's a Quote button at the bottom right of my post here

And then I edit it down to the part I want to quote?

And a link would be like this. Cool!