Time for a new build after 8 years!

fretman · Jun 18, 2014

Thanks to all for the latest replies. I don't think i'll be going the update route. It's time to treat myself to something new. Plus this is the first build I'll ever be doing so I want to have some fun with that. Funny thing is with the amount of overtime I've been doing at work, I think I'm now in a good position to go with an Intel I5. However, I will still do more research on the Intel I3. Currently, I believe there's about a $100 difference between the two.

crashtech · Jun 18, 2014

Have you taken a look at the weekly midrange build? It's a great starting point for a gaming rig, and it pretty much in that "sweet spot" from a price/performance perspective. You can create a build, more or less emulating what they have there, and trim parts off or move downward in speed/core count/capacity to get to your target budget.

fretman · Jun 18, 2014

crashtech said:
Have you taken a look at the weekly midrange build? It's a great starting point for a gaming rig, and it pretty much in that "sweet spot" from a price/performance perspective. You can create a build, more or less emulating what they have there, and trim parts off or move downward in speed/core count/capacity to get to your target budget.

Thanks for the link...those build are in the $900 range...something to look at but I think it's more than what I'm comfortable with now. Still thinking the I3 but only drawback is dual core vs quad core.

mfenn · Jun 18, 2014

coolpurplefan said:
By saying (s)he can buy a video card at a later date, I'm saying the budget looks inadequate for a real improvement over a Q6600. In other words, the old machine is good enough that it takes a significant CPU and RAM improvement to make it worthwhile. (My take anyway. It's always possible to try the lowest-cost case, PSU, mobo, HD and optical drive to see what you have left to work with to buy CPU/RAM then video card. If most of the parts are real cheap though, then it starts to lose the advantage of doing a build. Then an HP, Compaq, Dell might look tempting.)

EDIT: Or buy a GeForce GTX 750Ti now and upgrade the computer later.

A Q6600 is quite slow these days. A Haswell i3 absolutely crushes it in single-threaded and multi-threaded workloads.

crashtech · Jun 18, 2014

fretman said:
Thanks for the link...those build are in the $900 range...something to look at but I think it's more than what I'm comfortable with now. Still thinking the I3 but only drawback is dual core vs quad core.

Well, it's a template that you can modify. There is advice in the thread for a cheaper GPU, for example, and you can leave out either the SSD or data drive. If you are never going to overclock you can get a cheaper board*, and you can get an i3 with an eye toward a future upgrade to a quad core. I think the Haswell i3s have managed to optimize hyperthreading pretty well, for a dual core they are pretty muscular for all than the most CPU-heavy games. I think if you changed all those things you could knock a couple hundred off and still have a capable and highly upgradeable system. Go too cheap and you might regret it in the future!

*It's come to my attention that ASUS is enabling overclocking on some of their less expensive boards, so that's an option to explore to leave the door open for future overclocking.

coolpurplefan · Jun 19, 2014

One thing about getting a dual-core today and quad-core tomorrow, is you'll be tempted to get new mobo and RAM by that time. Plus, you'll be wondering whether you should use a new CPU with an old mobo/RAM thinking the lifespan may not be the same.

From 2008 to 2013, I didn't upgrade. I could have put in a Phenom X4 965 to replace my Athlon X2 5400+ but then I saw benchmarks showing the i5-4670 is pretty much two times faster on games (than Phenom X4 965 or E8500). To me that's a real upgrade so what I decided to go with. Had it been 50%, I would have been less tempted. Plus, some say quad-cores run smoother than dual-cores when multi-tasking. So my latest upgrade may last me several years.

fretman · Jun 22, 2014

Well folks, based on your feedback on this thread, I have come up with the following for my build. This will be my first build ever so it should be fun. Although, the Micro-ATX form factor might prove to be a bit of a challenge. I didn't know how to export my completed build from PCPartPicker into this forum post so I individually copied every line item separately. Therefore, the reason why there are no hyperlinks.

To recap, main purpose was a budget build to replace my 8 year old computer. I wanted the faster boot time, and the ability to play at low or medium settings, some of the newer games today. For example, "Wolfenstein - New Order".

As always, this is not written in stone. If you see something that is just a glaring mistake on my part, please let me know so that I can make changes before purchasing the parts.

PCPartPicker part list:
http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/bgzxbv
CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($121.41)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($79.99)
Storage: Seagate 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($84.99)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 1GB Superclocked Video Card ($119.99)
Case: Antec NSK3180 MicroATX Mid Tower Case w/380W Power Supply ($69.99)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($105.84)
Total: $627.20 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

I do have some concerns though. The final price will probably be more in the range of $650 because of the shipping charges. That's how much I would have to pay if I went and got all the parts locally.

The other big concern is that my Big Box store is selling an I7 system with 8gb of DDR3 ram at 1600mhz with everything else being included, except maybe for an inferior graphics card, and the price is about $150 more.

Thanks again for all your feedback. Please comment if you think I need to change a few things.

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

The Seasonic SII 520W has a 9.7 out of 10 rating on jonnyguru.com

The superclocked video card may use more electricity for little gain. Also, I might try to find a video card with heatpipes.

The 1333MHz RAM is pointless in my opinion. If you wanted to run at 1600MHz at 1.5V, I'd go with 1866MHz Kingston KHX18C10K2/8.

EDIT: Oh, now I see what you did. I just clicked on the link. If you give me time, I'll try to pick some parts on various sites to see if I can beat your list for the same price.

Oops, I did read a little quick. I thought I read PSU instead of case.

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

I chose a single web site so you'd pay less for shipping. (You can always check and come back if you're not satisfied.)
Gigabyte GTX 750 $130
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_1200_557_559&item_id=068850
Mushkin Redline 8GB $90 (I would try to run it at 1600MHz at 1.5V.)
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_311_312_613&item_id=040437
MSI H81M-P33 (I hesitate over such a cheap mobo) $45
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=26_1207_1206_1201&item_id=065665
Intel i3-4130 $135 (I chose a regular Haswell because I don't know if the BIOS will take a Haswell refresh)
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_1210_65&item_id=063168
Corsair CX430 power supply $50
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=33_1238_442&item_id=052926
case either
Antec VSK-4000E-U3 $40
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=6_112&item_id=061841
or Enermax CLIPEUS ECA3212-BL $40
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=6_112&item_id=053887
EDIT: Took out Silverstone case because it's not available online.
Seagate 1TB $60
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=15_1086_210_212&item_id=042240
Windows 8.1 $110 or
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=530&item_id=064934
Windows 7 $95 (some don't like Windows 8.1)
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=530&item_id=037803
$130 + $90 + $45 + $135 + $50 + $45 + $60 + $95
with Win7 total is $645. You might get free shipping but I'm not sure.
The chosen power supply has a rating of 9 on jonnyguru.com.

OK, I just noticed this Antec micro ATX case has USB 3.0 but there's 2 details in the description. One says USB 2.0: http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=6_113&item_id=061840

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

On Infonec, they say shipping is a flat rate of $9 on orders over $100. I've ordered from them before (and canadacomputers.com)
CoolerMaster K280 case $42 (I have one and find it awesome.)
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=462408#
Antec Basiq VP450 PSU $45 (The Corsair CX430 is currently out-of-stock.)
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=457512#
Gigabyte GA-H81M-DS2 $62 (cheapest one there)
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=463456#
This Kingston RAM http://www.kingston.com/datasheets/HX316C10F_8.pdf can run at 1600MHz at 1.5V (HX316C10F/8) $89
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=468903
Intel i3-4150 $125 (I checked the mobo CPU supporst list, it had the same BIOS for every CPU.)
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=468930
Asus GTX 750 $139 (OK this one is overclocked but the choices on Infonec are weird.)
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=468972#
Western Digital blue 1TB $64 (looks pretty sweet on paper)
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=460158#
or, if you're a Seagate fan $63
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=457724#
Win8.1 $99
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=466795
Win7 $99
http://www.infonec.com/site/main.php?module=detail&id=456393
total here is $665 but shipping is a flat rate of $9
On this site, you get a nice case and a more expensive motherboard.
EDIT: I've also ordered from canadacomputers.com if you wanted to know.

fretman · Jun 22, 2014

Thanks for the feedback "CoolPurpleFan". Canada Computers is local for me so I can pick up the parts in the store and avoid the shipping charges. I'll have to look at your configurations closer, but they do seem to have superior parts as compared to mine, but with just a slight price increase.

The Antec case I was looking at had 2 front USB 3.0 ports but I don't think the MOBO I selected has a USB 3.0 connector on the board itself.

I would pick Windows 7 but Windows 8.1 has a much faster boot time. Although the MSI board has a function called Fast Boot or something like that.

I chose a Hybrid drive only to get a combo of size and SSD performance for the money.

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

From ShopRBC (I bought here as well.):
Asus H81M-E http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/H81ME/HelpDesk_CPU/ $64
(Hey, it's an Asus and the lowest cost there.)
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=101389
Thermaltake Commander MS-1 Snow Edition Gaming tower $47
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=94018
or Thermaltake Versa II black $46
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=90064
Intel i3-4150 $124
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=107649
Corsair Vengence 8GB $104
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=76852
or Kingston 8GB $93
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=107044
Western Digital 1TB HD $60
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=102382
or Seagate 1TB $61
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=77131
Corsair CX430 $50
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=87602
or Antec Basiq VP-450 $41
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=74601
Gigabyte GTX 750 OC $135 (again, slim pickings)
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=107268
Windows 7 $108
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=59307
Windows 8.1 $108
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=102300
I think shipping is pretty low here as well so you can check in the shopping basket.
If you choose the lowest-cost items on this list the total is $671. But like I said, the shipping cost could make the whole difference between the 3 sites.
In case you want a video card that isn't on one of those sites, I believe there's free shipping for this one although I don't know the brand Zotac ($135 GTX 750): http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product...spx?path=0ff52be3bd2e4186947adca3670d4723en02

EDIT: I just read your message. That means some of the items that I didn't pick because they were "in-store only" you could actually pick. (Although now I forgot what those parts were. So you can browse the store especially for the cases.)

NOTE: For those looking at this list, please note that the same with an Intel i5 CPU would be much better. And the MSI H97 Gaming 3 is one of the cheapest mobos with the Realtek ALC1150 $128 http://www.cendirect.com/main_en/tech_specs_JOWM0293.html
http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=106994
or the AsRock Fatal1ty H97 Performance $135
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813157510
And a Seasonic SII 520w power supply, a CoolerMaster GeminII M4 CPU heatsink and some 120mm Nexus fans would round that out for a nice machine. And a video card that already has heatpipes on it.

Video cards with heatpipes: MSI N750 TF 1GD5/OC $164 http://www.cendirect.com/main_en/tech_specs_JOVY9904.html

Gigabyte GV-N75TOC-2GI $172 http://www.cendirect.com/main_en/tech_specs_NF6455544.html

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

fretman · Jun 22, 2014

Thanks again. I will look at the ShopRBC configuration too. ShopRBC is also local for me so no shipping charges. They actually built 2 computers for me, including the one I'm replacing.

Now things seem somewhat pricey for an I3. I guess I'm making that comparison to what Dell or HP is offering.

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

I think the two main differences between a build and pre-built is you can choose a power supply that could be superior with enough headroom to upgrade your video card/CPU later. The other is the lack of crapware when you install Windows.

If you compare the built-in video on the processor of an i5-4670 or i5-4690, it's only about half the speed of a GeForce GT 640 on Battlefield 3. So, maybe on low settings you could still play video games for now. Then next year you could buy an 800 series video card.

In other words, one possible choice is buying an i5 now, no video card then buy the video card later. An i5 + 8GB of 1600MHz RAM is still a powerful base to work with. Add a GeForce GTX 850Ti (guessing next year's model name) to that and you won't need to upgrade for a long while.

EDIT: Besides, as far as Windows is concerned, if I remember correctly, Win8 has a 90 trial period. So, you could try installing for free several times until Win9 comes out. If Win9 comes out with Directx12 support when Directx12 cards are coming out, that would be awesome. That's what I'm waiting for. I have the AsRock Fatal1ty Performance motherboard and 8GB Kingston KHX18C10K2/8 RAM and I'm waiting to buy the CPU (i5-4690). Once I buy the CPU and build my machine, next year I want to get a new video card and Win9.
You can always search for ISOs to make a Windows installation disc.

This is right on the border of recommending piracy, let's keep it clean.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

mfenn · Jun 22, 2014

fretman said:
Well folks, based on your feedback on this thread, I have come up with the following for my build. This will be my first build ever so it should be fun. Although, the Micro-ATX form factor might prove to be a bit of a challenge. I didn't know how to export my completed build from PCPartPicker into this forum post so I individually copied every line item separately. Therefore, the reason why there are no hyperlinks.

To recap, main purpose was a budget build to replace my 8 year old computer. I wanted the faster boot time, and the ability to play at low or medium settings, some of the newer games today. For example, "Wolfenstein - New Order".

As always, this is not written in stone. If you see something that is just a glaring mistake on my part, please let me know so that I can make changes before purchasing the parts.

PCPartPicker part list:
http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/bgzxbv
CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($121.41)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($79.99)
Storage: Seagate 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($84.99)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 1GB Superclocked Video Card ($119.99)
Case: Antec NSK3180 MicroATX Mid Tower Case w/380W Power Supply ($69.99)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($105.84)
Total: $627.20 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

I do have some concerns though. The final price will probably be more in the range of $650 because of the shipping charges. That's how much I would have to pay if I went and got all the parts locally.

The other big concern is that my Big Box store is selling an I7 system with 8gb of DDR3 ram at 1600mhz with everything else being included, except maybe for an inferior graphics card, and the price is about $150 more.

Thanks again for all your feedback. Please comment if you think I need to change a few things.

Ken's original Intel build is superior to this one because he includes an SSD and a better GPU. Remember, a GTX 750 is not the same as a GTX 750 Ti. The GTX 750 Ti is roughly equal to the R9 260X (they trade depending on the game), but the GTX 750 is slower. PCPP already includes shipping as well.

Pariah · Jun 22, 2014

I haven't read every post in this thread, but it looks like you are thinking about going from a quad core 6600 to some dual core i3. Considering you current system is 8 years old, I would not consider spending the money for that upgrade. If you don't plan on using your old system any more, you can save money by reusing the case, and purchasing a Windows 8.1 upgrade which will allow more money for your CPU. You can also reuse your current hard drive for storage and buy an SSD for boot/OS. That will net you by far the biggest boost in boot time and application load times.

If you can't squeeze an i5 into the build with an SSD, don't waste the money, especially if you plan on keeping the system another 8 years. You will wonder why you spent $600 for a computer that performs only marginally faster than what you have.

mfenn · Jun 22, 2014

Pariah said:
I haven't read every post in this thread, but it looks like you are thinking about going from a quad core 6600 to some dual core i3. Considering you current system is 8 years old, I would not consider spending the money for that upgrade. If you don't plan on using your old system any more, you can save money by reusing the case, and purchasing a Windows 8.1 upgrade which will allow more money for your CPU. You can also reuse your current hard drive for storage and buy an SSD for boot/OS. That will net you by far the biggest boost in boot time and application load times.

If you can't squeeze an i5 into the build with an SSD, don't waste the money, especially if you plan on keeping the system another 8 years. You will wonder why you spent $600 for a computer that performs only marginally faster than what you have.

The Q6600 8 years old, as you pointed out. The i3 isn't "marginally faster", it crushes the Q6600, dual core or no. The best recommended build so far (Ken's Intel one), includes an SSD.

mfenn said:
A Q6600 is quite slow these days. A Haswell i3 absolutely crushes it in single-threaded and multi-threaded workloads.

crashtech · Jun 22, 2014

In the Cinebench 11.5 thread, the Q6600 scored 2.72. There isn't a score for the i3-4150, but the i3-4360 scored 4.00, and even the Ivy Bridge i3-3220 scored 3.32. I think the 4150 would be closer to the former than the latter. Maybe a massive overclock would get the old C2Q close, but it would be a last ditch effort for an obsolete platform. Note that a test like Cinebench MT is probably a best case for a quad against a dual; in lightly threaded loads the vastly superior IPC of the Haswell makes it unquestionably superior.

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

I don't agree I was advocating piracy.

Looking at Ken's build, you can always to find the same components on the same site to save on shipping.

That would be one potential solution. Maybe another solution is temporarily change the PSU and video card in the current machine. Oops, no that would mean buying another video card next year when Directx12 cards come out. Well, whatever, do whatever you want.

I'd prefer going the i5 and no video card route then add a video card next year.

The 4670 scored 8.41 on Cinebench test? EDIT: Oops, that was overclocked.

Cerb · Jun 22, 2014

The exact models aren't there (2.67GHz 12MB C2Q was the closest I saw), but:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2013/-21-Mafia-II,3176.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/cpu-charts-2013/-20-Crysis-II,3175.html

Crysis II starts getting GPU/driver limited fairly quickly (part of why OCed C2Q users can still hang in there, if barely, these days). Mafia II looks like about typical, IMO. Cinebench and the like are going to be the best for the Q6600, since it has 4 real cores and more cache. Cinebench is a good scaling benchmark, but generally much more friendly to having more cores than most programs are (IoW, the i3 crushes the Q6600 in what may be the Q6600's best CPU-based benchmark). Sure, an i5 would better, but that's yet more money, and the OP's budget was getting stretched out in just about every build already.

Pariah · Jun 22, 2014

mfenn said:
The Q6600 8 years old, as you pointed out. The i3 isn't "marginally faster", it crushes the Q6600, dual core or no. The best recommended build so far (Ken's Intel one), includes an SSD.

You posted 2 benchmarks. The i3 kills it one (cinebench, which is totally useless based on the application list in the OP), and the ancient Q6600 destroys it in the other (POV-Ray, which is equally useless). Looks like a draw to me, which is not what I would spend $600 on.

If the system you are upgrading to isn't faster across the board in everything than your 8 year old system, don't spend the money unless there are certain non-performance based features you need with a new platform.

Again, you also have to consider how this system will perform 4 or 5 years from now. Gaming is moving beyond dual core now, and the only applications the OP uses that need anything more than an entry level APU are games. An i3 Haswell is already massive overkill for email and internet surfing. You will not want to be using a dual core system for gaming 5 years from now.

Lastly, I don't care what someone recommended earlier. The OP didn't have an SSD in the last configuration he posted. Considering, he's the one buying the computer for himself, his is the only config that matters.

fretman · Jun 22, 2014

Thanks again for everyone's input and suggestions. I guess all your comments got me to thinking again. Good thing is I'm not in a rush to get this done.

Pariah · Jun 22, 2014

Just out of curiosity fretman. You say you are replacing an 8 year old system. Is the Q6600 the original CPU you had in that system? That CPU is only about 7 years old, and it was $850 at release. How much did you pay for your current system? Couple that with an 8800GTS going for about $300 8 years ago, and that was no $600 budget system like you are trying to replace it with now.

coolpurplefan · Jun 22, 2014

Just wanted to say as a passing comment that the current cards may not use all of the Directx12 features. And that there's no guarantee that Windows 8.1 or below will have Directx12.

In other words, the performance benefits may only come from Windows 9 and a Directx12 video card.

You could always "get into it" by shopping for the case and power supply you'd like now.

(I'm kind of vaguely wondering though whether Broadwell processors are the ones that may need a very different kind of PSU.)

EDIT: One idea is to use a free Linux distribution until Windows 9 comes out.

Time for a new build after 8 years!

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