Time for a new build after 8 years!

[fretman]

Looking for your help folks. Another member directed me to this section of the forum and to follow the guidelines in the Sticky thread. So therefore, here I go. Oh yeah, reason for new system is because mine is slower than a snail. Takes 10 minutes to boot up. Plus hard drive is making some weird noises.

1. My PC will be used for checking email, surfing the net, some word processing, some excel spreadsheet tasks, watching some youtube videos, and playing newer games like Wolfenstein. I don't care about FPS rates or anything like that. I just would like a system that can make the game playable.
2. Price range would be between $500 to $600 (including O/S - Windows 8.1).
3. I will be buying my parts from Canada.
4. I can take care of scouring for the best prices. I just need to know the parts.
5. I'm leaning towards AMD this time. Originally, I had my mind set on the AMD APU A10-7850. But now, I'm leaning towards a better CPU with a decent graphics card.
6. I plan on using my existing optical drive, keyboard, and mouse.
7. I don't plan on overclocking.
8. My current resolution is 1920x1200. I plan on keeping this resolution.
9. I would like to start looking for best pricing on parts now and plan on building the system in 2 weeks.
10. I would like to try Windows 8.1 because of the fast boot-times.

Thanks for the help and recommendations.

BTW, I'm currently running a Q6600, 4gb of 800mhz ram, Vista Ultimate, and an Nvidia 8800GTS card.

 

[Ken g6]

Plus hard drive is making some weird noises.

How big is your old hard drive? For most of the uses you listed, an SSD would be nice.

I plan on using my existing optical drive, keyboard, and mouse.

Not your case? If you want to reuse your case, what size is it?

Here's a build that slightly blows the budget. Reusing the case or not getting an SSD would make it fit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($121.41 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 260X 1GB Core Edition Video Card ($114.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($39.95 @ Vuugo)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $611.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-15 19:00 EDT-0400

Edit: Better CPU, lower price!

 

[fretman]

How big is your old hard drive? For most of the uses you listed, an SSD would be nice.

Not your case? If you want to reuse your case, what size is it?

Here's a build that slightly blows the budget. Reusing the case or not getting an SSD would make it fit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($121.41 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 260X 1GB Core Edition Video Card ($114.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($39.95 @ Vuugo)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $611.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-15 19:00 EDT-0400

Edit: Better CPU, lower price!

Thanks for the configuration build. But I'm leaning more towards the AMD chips. I don't plan on using my existing case. My current HD is 500gb and after eight years I'm only using half the capacity.

By better CPU I'm referring to something where the CPU processing would be better than the A10-7850. I heard that a lower end non-APU chip would fit the build. Plus getting a decent GPU at the same time. Therefore, both combined would be equivalent to the price of the A10 or just slightly higher.

 

[Ken g6]

The socket AM3+ chips seem expensive in Canada. But with a socket FM2 Athlon (on a board you wouldn't want to OC with), I can get you a graphics card with 2GB VRAM for just over $600.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 760K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($94.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A55M-VG3+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($41.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 260X 2GB Video Card ($138.95 @ Vuugo)
Case: Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($39.95 @ Vuugo)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $605.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-15 19:40 EDT-0400

If you're already using 256GB, before getting new games, you may want to drop the SSD for a standard HDD.

 

[fretman]

The socket AM3+ chips seem expensive in Canada. But with a socket FM2 Athlon (on a board you wouldn't want to OC with), I can get you a graphics card with 2GB VRAM for just over $600.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Athlon X4 760K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($94.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Motherboard: ASRock FM2A55M-VG3+ Micro ATX FM2+ Motherboard ($41.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 260X 2GB Video Card ($138.95 @ Vuugo)
Case: Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($39.95 @ Vuugo)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $605.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-15 19:40 EDT-0400

If you're already using 256GB, before getting new games, you may want to drop the SSD for a standard HDD.

Thanks. You wouldn't recommend at least 8gb of ram with a higher speed? Isn't 1333 outdated?

 

[Ken g6]

You wouldn't recommend at least 8gb of ram with a higher speed? Isn't 1333 outdated?

Yes I would, and yes it is a little bit. (Not much, and speed doesn't matter a lot.) If you can fit more, faster RAM in your budget, let me know how.

Edit: I'd really recommend an i5, a Z97, 8GB RAM, that SSD, an HDD, a $300 video card, a better case and PSU. And that you somehow obtain $1,200 to get it all.

 

[Torn Mind]

The 8800GTS is going to struggle quite a bit powering 1920x1200. The HD7700 is about double its power. Both the GTX 750 Ti and R7 260X are more powerful than the 7770.

10 minutes to boot is unusual behavior. Could be the hard drive is heavily fragmented or dying.

One potential route to consider is cloning your current install to a new hard drive and simply upgrading the graphics card. Or you can install a new OS onto a new hard drive for your current system. The Q6600 at stock is slower than a current i3 or A10, but I think your GPU is not pushing the limits of the chip yet. Open Resource Monitor or Task Manager. Fire up the game and play it a little, and then close. If the CPU graph isn't pushing 100% the GPU is not processing the info fast enough to saturate the CPU.

 

[mistersprinkles]

The 8800GTS is going to struggle quite a bit powering 1920x1200. The HD7700 is about double its power. Both the GTX 750 Ti and R7 260X are more powerful than the 7770.

10 minutes to boot is unusual behavior. Could be the hard drive is heavily fragmented or dying.

One potential route to consider is cloning your current install to a new hard drive and simply upgrading the graphics card. Or you can install a new OS onto a new hard drive for your current system. The Q6600 at stock is slower than a current i3 or A10, but I think your GPU is not pushing the limits of the chip yet. Open Resource Monitor or Task Manager. Fire up the game and play it a little, and then close. If the CPU graph isn't pushing 100% the GPU is not processing the info fast enough to saturate the CPU.

Nobody mentioned an 8800GTS. Also, you should be aware that transferring an install from an old build onto a new build with radically different hardware (especially chipset) is a huge, huge no-no. You never do that. Always fresh install. Also, he'd likely have XP if this was an 8 year old system. That means he probably has the 32 bit version with its infamous memory wall, and XP is no longer supported, leaving him open to attacks. All bad ideas, sorry, but that is my opinion.

OP,

With your budget, I suggest that you do the following:

Socket FM2+ Athlon X4
Crucial MX100 240GB
R9 270X
Corsair CX500 PSU
2x4GB 1600Mhz CL9 DDR3

The 270X puts you slightly over budget but it will give you acceptable performance in demanding games. A 260X just isn't powerful enough in my opinion for FPS games. Even with the 270X you will be playing with lower settings.

 

[Torn Mind]

Nobody mentioned an 8800GTS. Also, you should be aware that transferring an install from an old build onto a new build with radically different hardware (especially chipset) is a huge, huge no-no. You never do that. Always fresh install. Also, he'd likely have XP if this was an 8 year old system. That means he probably has the 32 bit version with its infamous memory wall, and XP is no longer supported, leaving him open to attacks. All bad ideas, sorry, but that is my opinion.

OP,

With your budget, I suggest that you do the following:

Socket FM2+ Athlon X4
Crucial MX100 240GB
R9 270X
Corsair CX500 PSU
2x4GB 1600Mhz CL9 DDR3

The 270X puts you slightly over budget but it will give you acceptable performance in demanding games. A 260X just isn't powerful enough in my opinion for FPS games. Even with the 270X you will be playing with lower settings.

Opinions based completely on thin air, or perhaps superstition on your part.

You didn't see the end of the first post of this thread? Perhaps you should hold yourself accoutable to your own intellectual standards and ABSORB THE INFORMATION BEFORE MOUTHING OFF.

BTW, I'm currently running a Q6600, 4gb of 800mhz ram, Vista Ultimate, and an Nvidia 8800GTS card.

I saw this, you did not. Perhaps the Flying Spaghetti Monster made it disappear for you. I am undoing the FSM's work. And yes, your assumption about him using XP is also the FSM's work.


I did not suggest transferring an install to a new build with new CPU and mobo. I implied (YES, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPECIFIC, MY FAULT THERE) that he continue to use his old system, but either clone his current install to a new hard drive OR install a new OS to his new hard drive on the old system.

Since Windows 8.1 retail has a transferable license, he can wipe his new drive and install it fresh again on his new system if and when he gets it in the future. Also, since Windows 7 and 8 are rather flexible with chipset swaps, it is always worth a try provided that no quirks or noticeable performance flaws are detected. Obviously, reverting all old drivers to generic ones is a must or else the transfer will fail.

 

[Ketchup]

How big is your old hard drive? For most of the uses you listed, an SSD would be nice.

Not your case? If you want to reuse your case, what size is it?

Here's a build that slightly blows the budget. Reusing the case or not getting an SSD would make it fit.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i3-4150 3.5GHz Dual-Core Processor ($121.41 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: MSI H81M-P33 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($44.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 260X 1GB Core Edition Video Card ($114.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Silverstone PS08B (Black) MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: Antec 450W ATX Power Supply ($39.95 @ Vuugo)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $611.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-06-15 19:00 EDT-0400

Edit: Better CPU, lower price!

This is an awesome build for you fretman! You can add more RAM later, and the SSD may make you forget that you even need more. Plus you get a good video card for gaming withing your budget.

Couple answers for you freeman:
1. We are at DDR III. RAM speed doesn't mean what it did when we were running DDR. I can't readily think of a configuration (on the Intel side anyway) when you would notice a big difference.
2. You only want AMD if you NEED it for your budget. I know folks will disagree, but Intel chips run cooler, faster, and quieter (if we are talking stock cooler) than anything AMD's got.

Honestly, for a new system, within your budget, that'll do gaming, Ken g6 has done an amazing job here!

 

[coolpurplefan]

I'm trying to read on economics so I don't want to take too much time on this. But, I wanted to say there are sites like shopbot.ca, pricebat.ca and infoprix.ca (French) that can show you prices.

For the amount you're talking, I might go with a dual-core instead of quad-core and 4GB of RAM instead of 8GB. I like the CoolerMaster K280 case although there aren't many around. And the AsRock Fatal1ty H97 Performance motherboard has the Realtek ALC1150 audio which people say is as good as a sound card. And for the processor, the i3-4360 has HD4600 integrated video so you can play old games while you're waiting for the 800 series Nvidia GPUs next year.

For memory, I read Haswell CPUs run better at 1.5V. To run at 1600MHz at 1.5V, I bought some Kingston KHX18C10K2/8 memory at 1866MHz at 1.65V which also has an XMP Profile of 1600MHz at 1.5V.

Also, some shops which may not always appear on shopbot.ca: Infonec, Cendirect, ShopRBC, CanadaComputers.com
Newegg.ca, amazon.ca are usually on that site. (I've ordered from all those sites.)

 

[Ketchup]

I'm trying to read on economics ...AsRock Fatal1ty H97 Performance motherboard has the Realtek ALC1150 ....

Did you really just use the words economics and those silly Fatal1ty boards in the same post? lol

 

[Cerb]

1. We are at DDR III. RAM speed doesn't mean what it did when we were running DDR. I can't readily think of a configuration (on the Intel side anyway) when you would notice a big difference.

Sim programs and games are about it, today, for anything more than very minor differences, assuming an add-in video card. Flight Simulator X seems to care about RAM latency, FI. Some games get a few % improvement, but rarely enough to be concerned over (on the order of the differences between driver versions, motherboard choice, background applications affecting performance, etc.).

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for the configuration build. But I'm leaning more towards the AMD chips. I don't plan on using my existing case. My current HD is 500gb and after eight years I'm only using half the capacity.

By better CPU I'm referring to something where the CPU processing would be better than the A10-7850. I heard that a lower end non-APU chip would fit the build. Plus getting a decent GPU at the same time. Therefore, both combined would be equivalent to the price of the A10 or just slightly higher.

Yes, the 760K is marketed as having twice as many cores, but it really has only two Piledriver modules. Each Piledriver module has two integer cores but only one floating point core.

Compare that to the i3 4150 which has two full (integer and floating point) cores with Hyperthreading producing 4 logical time-sliced cores.

So really with either CPU, you're getting 4 logical threads with less than 4 full cores behind them, they're just arranged differently based on vendor. The deciding factor is that the Intel CPU can do much more work in each clock cycle than the AMD can due to Intel's superior microarchitecture. The 300 MHz clock speed advantage that AMD has is not enough to make up for this gap.

 

[mistersprinkles]

Opinions based completely on thin air, or perhaps superstition on your part.

You didn't see the end of the first post of this thread? Perhaps you should hold yourself accoutable to your own intellectual standards and ABSORB THE INFORMATION BEFORE MOUTHING OFF.
I saw this, you did not. Perhaps the Flying Spaghetti Monster made it disappear for you. I am undoing the FSM's work. And yes, your assumption about him using XP is also the FSM's work.


I did not suggest transferring an install to a new build with new CPU and mobo. I implied (YES, I SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPECIFIC, MY FAULT THERE) that he continue to use his old system, but either clone his current install to a new hard drive OR install a new OS to his new hard drive on the old system.

Since Windows 8.1 retail has a transferable license, he can wipe his new drive and install it fresh again on his new system if and when he gets it in the future. Also, since Windows 7 and 8 are rather flexible with chipset swaps, it is always worth a try provided that no quirks or noticeable performance flaws are detected. Obviously, reverting all old drivers to generic ones is a must or else the transfer will fail.

\\ Attitude....:thumbsdown:

Personal attacks will not be tolerated
-ViRGE

 

[Torn Mind]

\\ Attitude....:thumbsdown:

It's clear you have no intellectual integrity. Calling you out for your laughable errors is well within my right.

And you cast the first stone, trying to paint me ignorant, but guess who did not read the posts thoroughly or understand context? You.

Your whole opinion consists of three components, two of which are based on outright falsehoods. That he didn't mention an 8800GTS, and the OS he uses, which you assumed was XP even though he clearly stated both things in the final sentence of his opening post.

And attacking back will not be tolerated
-ViRGE

 

[Ketchup]

It's clear you have no intellectual integrity. Calling you out for your laughable errors is well within my right.

And you cast the first stone, trying to paint me ignorant, but guess who did not read the posts thoroughly or understand context? You.

The little quarrel between the two of you has not place here.

 

[soflawill]

Feisty discussion. Just finishing the upgrade route myself, retiring an 8-10 year old system. So many decisions, so many tradeoffs, at some point ya just gotta pull the trigger. Good luck, you are getting some sound advice in this thread.

 

[fretman]

Wow...so many replies...thanks to everyone for their input. Apologies for not posting back sooner but for some reason my automatic email notifications stopped working.

Thanks to Ken_G6 for providing both an Intel build and an AMD build. I started doing a comparision between both the Intel I3-4350 and the AMD X4 760K. And the research I did find on the net showed that the Intel was a better chip to go with right now.

Torn_Mind did bring up a concern though when he mentioned that the Intel I3 was slower at stock than my current Q6600.

Either way, this opens up my mind a bit more as previously I was already set on the AMD 10-7850, but that doesn't seem like the option for me now.

 

[Ketchup]

The big thing I see here fretman is heat and power draw. If power is cheap and the heat is not an issue, I stand by my post in the other thread that a upgrading to a good video card, some more RAM, and an SSD will do great things for the chip you have, with the money you have to spend. And truthfully, you can just get an SSD, a video card, and do a fresh install of Windows. If you still aren't happy with it, you can throw those into the new build you have decided on, and the only loss would be some time.

 

[Torn Mind]

Wow...so many replies...thanks to everyone for their input. Apologies for not posting back sooner but for some reason my automatic email notifications stopped working.

Thanks to Ken_G6 for providing both an Intel build and an AMD build. I started doing a comparision between both the Intel I3-4350 and the AMD X4 760K. And the research I did find on the net showed that the Intel was a better chip to go with right now.

Torn_Mind did bring up a concern though when he mentioned that the Intel I3 was slower at stock than my current Q6600.

Either way, this opens up my mind a bit more as previously I was already set on the AMD 10-7850, but that doesn't seem like the option for me now.

I said the Q6600 (at stock clocks) was slower than the i3 at stock clocks.

As I said, fire up a game, run it for a bit, and then check Task Manager. If and see low CPU usage and low frames per second, it's a GPU upgrade you should prioritize first. If the CPU is near 100% on even one core(depends on how well the game uses more cores), then you need a faster CPU. This will confirm what is/are the actual culprit(s) to your poor gaming performance.

 

[crashtech]

Yes, the 760K is marketed as having twice as many cores, but it really has only two Piledriver modules. Each Piledriver module has two integer cores but only one floating point core.

Compare that to the i3 4150 which has two full (integer and floating point) cores with Hyperthreading producing 4 logical time-sliced cores.

So really with either CPU, you're getting 4 logical threads with less than 4 full cores behind them, they're just arranged differently based on vendor. The deciding factor is that the Intel CPU can do much more work in each clock cycle than the AMD can due to Intel's superior microarchitecture. The 300 MHz clock speed advantage that AMD has is not enough to make up for this gap.

That's a great explanation of the differences between the two value propositions. Most of the 760K's comparative deficiency can be made up for with heavy overclocking, but the OP expressed up front that he doesn't want to do that. Non-overclockers using dGPUs should at this point always go with Intel, because these days all AMD CPUs have to be overclocked to compete with Intel counterparts at similar prices levels.

 

[coolpurplefan]

Torn_Mind did bring up a concern though when he mentioned that the Intel I3 was slower at stock than my current Q6600.

I wanted to point out what going from a quad-core to a dual-core simply because your budget is small looks kind of weird but...

If you look what I posted in another thread...

AsRock Fatal1ty H97 Performance motherboard $100
Intel i5-4690 CPU $215
Kingston 2x4GB RAM KHX18C10K2/8 $85
Seasonic S12II 520 watt PSU $60
CoolerMaster HAF 912 case $60
Pioneer Blu-ray burner BDR-209DBK $65
Western Digital 1TB HD $59

Computer without the video card for $644.
(These are U.S. prices though.)

Where can you save money? You could have a DVD burner instead of Blu-ray burner. Or, 4GB of RAM instead of 8GB of RAM and a dual-core instead of quad-core. But going down to dual-core and limiting yourself to 4GB when they may eventually switch to DDR4 RAM (hence later prices will be expensive) looks like an unfortunate choice.

The only way I can think of saving money is then waiting to buy a video card then buying one later. And another "trick" which you may not want to use is install Windows 7 without a product key. It works after 30 although you get several messages a day telling you to activate. And these messages can interrupt videos AND games WHILE you're gaming. Then you can buy Windows 9 when it comes out.

You can't pay much, much lower for a case and hard drive so the choices in my opinion are limited. (Unless you go cheap as you can on case, HD, PSU, optical drive, motherboard. I'm not sure how cheap I'd go on mobo and PSU.)

 

[mfenn]

If you look what I posted in another thread...

AsRock Fatal1ty H97 Performance motherboard $100
Intel i5-4690 CPU $215
Kingston 2x4GB RAM KHX18C10K2/8 $85
Seasonic S12II 520 watt PSU $60
CoolerMaster HAF 912 case $60
Pioneer Blu-ray burner BDR-209DBK $65
Western Digital 1TB HD $59

The OP in this thread wants to play the new Wolfenstein though. He'll need a discrete GPU of some kind for that.

 

[coolpurplefan]

The OP in this thread wants to play the new Wolfenstein though. He'll need a discrete GPU of some kind for that.

By saying (s)he can buy a video card at a later date, I'm saying the budget looks inadequate for a real improvement over a Q6600. In other words, the old machine is good enough that it takes a significant CPU and RAM improvement to make it worthwhile. (My take anyway. It's always possible to try the lowest-cost case, PSU, mobo, HD and optical drive to see what you have left to work with to buy CPU/RAM then video card. If most of the parts are real cheap though, then it starts to lose the advantage of doing a build. Then an HP, Compaq, Dell might look tempting.)

EDIT: Or buy a GeForce GTX 750Ti now and upgrade the computer later.