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TIL Reagan once fired all the ATC's

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They shot themselves in the foot by striking if they had a no strike agreement. If they were getting screwed then you go back and try to get a better deal at the table when your contract is up for renewal. Also make sure that the people representing you at the table know what they are doing when negotiating...

Union guy.
 
I don't know how you fix the union thing. I've seen both sides be jerks for no good reason. I do see a need for unions. But where's the leverage when labor is available in other countries for so much less? And all of our safety measures are great, but they do add to the cost of a product. How do you compete when a competitor is using that low cost labor/working conditions? The factory workers that haven't been displaced by automation have no leverage. It's just the tradesmen now; the electricians, plumbers, welders, etc.



Regarding the ATCs. If I had a job that was so bad I'd be willing to illegally strike, I wouldn't want the job.
 
Everyone remembers Reagan's "victories" but noone remembers his fiascos. Look up the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon and Reagan's response (cut and run)-he singlehandedly emboldened terrorists to act against the USA for the last forty years by proving they could best us.

If you really are interested, look up Iran-Contra gate. The only reason he wasn't impeached was the general consensus in Congress that he was already senile/Alzheimer's by then. And less than a decade later the GOP was impeaching Clinton for a hummer.
 
Yes he did fire them all.

Anything Union is Commie don't ya know, was more Union Busting which has been going on on stop.

Part of the real irony to me was when he was President of SAG, more or less when he started becoming political, which is an actors Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_Actors_Guild

Ronnie was quite the hypocrite.

Blacklisting actors at the time that were considered Communist while running a Socialist Organization.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrJYB-69xn8
 
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Kneedragger said:
They shot themselves in the foot by striking if they had a no strike agreement. If they were getting screwed then you go back and try to get a better deal at the table when your contract is up for renewal. Also make sure that the people representing you at the table know what they are doing when negotiating...

Union guy.
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This is true also.

I ran into that problem myself at one time, but they voted on that before I even worked at the place.

Really didn't matter when bargaining later on, the Unio in the company had dwindled from 250 to about 12 people anyway.

It was just a slow elimination of it over time.
 
twinrider1 said:
Regarding the ATCs. If I had a job that was so bad I'd be willing to illegally strike, I wouldn't want the job.
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Yeah, but it's more complicated than that. It's a highly specialized field where you need certain skills & abilities to do it, so it's not like quitting Burger King to go work at McDonalds, you know? Plus they currently are well paid (well over $100k a year on average). And it's not always just about the money. I have a lot of friends who are EMT's and aside from the rush they get from doing it, even though they get paid like crap to save people's lives, they get a lot of satisfaction from being legitimately useful to society. I think it's the same thing with this type of job...it's a crazy job & you're responsible for hundreds of people's lives at any given moment, but you are actively contributing to keeping people from dying, which I'd imagine is a pretty cool feeling.
 
Thump553 said:
Everyone remembers Reagan's "victories" but noone remembers his fiascos. Look up the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon and Reagan's response (cut and run)-he singlehandedly emboldened terrorists to act against the USA for the last forty years by proving they could best us.

If you really are interested, look up Iran-Contra gate. The only reason he wasn't impeached was the general consensus in Congress that he was already senile/Alzheimer's by then. And less than a decade later the GOP was impeaching Clinton for a hummer.
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Yeah, I was actually in the Marines when the barracks was bombed.

Ticked a lot off badly, to say the least.

I don't mean to ramble on too much but is a bit of a related story.

Was stationed at Kaneohe Bay MCAS at the time, me and about 4 other guys not long after ran into a Culligan Rep at The Wild Irish Rose bar in Honolulu not too long after, who apparently was a tech rep for the water system on one of the carriers they had off shore there.

We got bulling around a bit, I guess he was up in the tower with the Captain when they were doing training runs with the fighter bombers and dropping Blue (practive) bombs around the area afterwards. He was a Civvy of course, said the Captain got a bit miffed when he was saying "Yeah drop Blue bombs on em, that will show them!!!!" 😛

Pretty cool guy, we all just hung out bombing around Honolulu the rest of the night, he musta been making good money then to begin with, he bought more rounds then most of us.
 
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twinrider1 said:
But where's the leverage when labor is available in other countries for so much less? And all of our safety measures are great, but they do add to the cost of a product. How do you compete when a competitor is using that low cost labor/working conditions?
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Require all imported goods be manufactured in conditions that comply with US law.
 
If youre going to forbid someone from striking because their job is so important, you better make sure youre treating them well.
 
Slew Foot said:
If youre going to forbid someone from striking because their job is so important, you better make sure youre treating them well.
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Or a bargained for group (a Union) shouldn't sign a no strike clause. Honestly this would be like a surgeon demanding more pay moments before performing surgery on you. Some jobs are critical and can't strike this should be used as leverage.
They also could do "work safe" campaigns admittedly if there is a no strike clause there will be a no slow down clause. Work slow downs are hard to prove.
 
Slew Foot said:
If youre going to forbid someone from striking because their job is so important, you better make sure youre treating them well.
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I'm really curious what these guys were upset about. Was it work conditions or a money thing?

This page http://nvdatabase.swarthmore.edu/co...ffic-controllers-strike-benefits-and-pay-1981

Says
On August 3, 1981, nearly 13,000 of the 17,500 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO), a United States trade union, staged a walkout and strike. The union intended the strike to address four main concerns:
1.Rank and filers maintained that their work was seriously undervalued and under-rewarded

2.That their work week was unreasonably long, especially in comparison to the hour worked by their overseas counterparts

3.That the FAA’s approach to supervision and to union-management relations undermined morale and the safety of the system

4.And that the FAA neglected serious deficiencies in staffing levels and hardware reliability.
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Me, I really see #4 as the only concern.. 1. STFU and nut up... 2. If it was more than 40 I'd say maybe but otherwise.. You signed up for this job and probably knew about it before you got into it.. 3. Is in every job union or not..

Then
However, in a move to focus on solely economic goals rather than a revamped work culture or genuine self-management, PATCO President Robert Poli demanded a wage increase of $10,000 a year for controllers, a reduced 32-hour four-day workweek, and a better benefits package for retirement. Controllers maintained that their demands deserved consideration, and pointed to the highly stressful nature of their job as proof. They also believed that they held the upper hand; since if they were not on the job, airplanes would have a hard time flying passengers and goods anywhere.
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Shooting self in foot..


Union guy
 
Fayd said:
relatively conservative democrats did.

i don't think there's any of those left.
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I still am, but we aren't usually around much anymore and get called liberals.

I even voted for Reagan twice at the time, go figure.

Live and learn.
 
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