TIL: Building a clock in Texas is illegal

[WelshBloke]

It is what can happen, if you perform a bomb hoax, and it goes terribly wrong.

Again. That wasn't a bomb hoax, it was a misidentified person.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Again. That wasn't a bomb hoax, it was a misidentified person.

But the point is. They "THOUGHT" he was an active-bomber and/or had bombs strapped to himself.

I.e. He was an immediate threat to the safety of other people. Hence the authority to fire.

If they had ONLY misidentified him, but thought he was unarmed and had no bombs with him, or trigger devices. Then surely they would NOT have shot him dead ?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

But the point is. They "THOUGHT" he was an active-bomber and/or had bombs strapped to himself.

I.e. He was an immediate threat to the safety of other people. Hence the authority to fire.

If they had ONLY misidentified him, but thought he was unarmed and had no bombs with him, or trigger devices. Then surely they would NOT have shot him dead ?

What's your point? That we should be beholden to the whims of paranoid police officers who shoot first without verifying the nature of the threat they're supposedly addressing? Or that no one should look "dangerous"... which is meaningless if misidentification can get you killed regardless? I fail to see how the case you brought up reinforces any point you seem to be trying to make; at best it shows that police forces can make some pretty colossal fuck-ups that end with innocent people dead.

 

[WelshBloke]

But the point is. They "THOUGHT" he was an active-bomber and/or had bombs strapped to himself.

I.e. He was an immediate threat to the safety of other people. Hence the authority to fire.

If they had ONLY misidentified him, but thought he was unarmed and had no bombs with him, or trigger devices. Then surely they would NOT have shot him dead ?

Still not seeing how this has anything to do with this thread though.

They didnt shoot him because he had a clock on him. They shot him because they had "information" that he had already planted a bomb and might have another.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Still not seeing how this has anything to do with this thread though.

They didnt shoot him because he had a clock on him. They shot him because they had "information" that he had already planted a bomb and might have another.

https://boingboing.net/2007/09/21/mit-student-arrested.html

So you can't understand why, Police shooting someone dead, because they thought they had a live bomb.

Is connected to me giving example(s), as to why people wearing or having hoax bombs, could get shot by the police.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

So you can't understand why, Police shooting someone dead, because they thought they had a live bomb.

Is connected to me giving example(s), as to why people wearing or having hoax bombs, could get shot by the police.

But in both that case and this one, there was no bomb, nor any hoax bomb. And in the case of Menezes, regardless of any action he took, he was killed based on mistakes the police made. How exactly does one prevent that?

 

[WelshBloke]

So you can't understand why, Police shooting someone dead, because they thought they had a live bomb.

No one thought that the kid had a live bomb.

Is connected to me giving example(s), as to why people wearing or having hoax bombs, could get shot by the police.

Jean Charles de Menezes wasnt shot over a bomb hoax.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

No one thought that the kid had a live bomb.



Jean Charles de Menezes wasnt shot over a bomb hoax.

I did not explain it very well.

It had nothing directly to do with the kid or the bomb hoax.
It was about possible future problems, with possible news coverage of this issue.

Sorry, if I was NOT clear enough in my original explanation.
I did not realize that, was causing the misunderstanding.

I don't agree with your first statement. The initial (English) teacher, may have thought it was a real bomb, at some point. I certainly don't know, one way or the other, if she did, or did not think it was a real bomb, at some point.

Maybe she did, think it was real, initially ?
Maybe not ?

 

[waggy]

lol what the fuck?

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Redacted

 

[Ichinisan]

I miss the 90's. Back when Americans weren't chicken shit cowards cowering at everything in sight because of "Teh Terrorists".

Bomb threats at schools were routine in the '80s and '90s also. People seem to actively suppress this fact with their selective memory.

 

[Ichinisan]

I thought about this for a second.

Maybe his parents knew the climate of the school and told him to do this. Knowing it will get national attention and a free ticket to a lot of things. Kind of interesting theory....

I mentioned this and compared it to the Balloon Boy hoax...with a social justice twist!

 

[WelshBloke]

I don't agree with your first statement. The initial (English) teacher, may have thought it was a real bomb, at some point. I certainly don't know, one way or the other, if she did, or did not think it was a real bomb, at some point.

So what were her actions after finding a "live bomb" in her classroom then.

 

[Ichinisan]

It's easy to do.
It's bound to happen somewhere/sometime.
The conditions were perfect for this setup.

Occam's Razor doesn't mean "what usually happens in other scenarios/circumstances is always the case." I think a setup explains more and, thus, is a simpler explanation.

I don't think the clock was plugged in and on for investigators to see, so I doubt they even knew that was a numeric display at first.

It has a terminal for a 9 volt battery. Apparently, it was beeping loudly and that caught the attention of Ahmed's English teacher.

If it did have a battery installed, the authorities probably disconnected it first-thing.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

So what were her actions after finding a "live bomb" in her classroom then.

She contacted the principle.

Even if she thought it was a real bomb. The principle (I imagine), would be the one, who has the authority to order the evacuation of the school etc.

So the fact that it (the school) was not evacuated. Does not necessarily mean, that she did not, at least some of the time, believe it could be or even was a viable explosive device.

But unfortunately I have to contradict my nice theory here.

Apparently/reportedly she confiscated the device, and took the device to the principles office.

If that is true, she either thought is was NOT real, or has a terribly bad/dangerous idea, on how to deal with potentially highly dangerous bombs.

 

[Ichinisan]

you really think this is a social media stunt?

"hey, let's potentially ruin our kid's life just so he might make a big splash". that's so far on the high risk/high reward scale that i can't imagine any parent would possibly consider it a good idea.

As long as there's enough reasonable doubt (and there's plenty), there wouldn't be a criminal record or any significant lasting detrimental effect. The benefits would outweigh everything else.

 

[WelshBloke]

She contacted the principle.

Even if she thought it was a real bomb. The principle (I imagine), would be the one, who has the authority to order the evacuation of the school etc.

So the fact that it (the school) was not evacuated. Does not necessarily mean, that she did not, at least some of the time, believe it could be or even was a viable explosive device.

But unfortunately I have to contradict my nice theory here.

Apparently/reportedly she confiscated the device, and took the device to the principles office.

If that is true, she either thought is was NOT real, or has a terribly bad/dangerous idea, on how to deal with potentially highly dangerous bombs.

Right. She didn't think it was a real bomb, the principal didn't think it was a live bomb, and the police didn't think it was a live bomb.

I know how Holly felt now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shs7VQhVvxA

 

[Ichinisan]

Do you know why it doesn't look like a hoax bomb? BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE EXPLOSIVE MATERIAL! My God, how foolish are people to think something looks like a bomb because it has circuit boards and LEDs and wires. If he had a blob of play-doh inside, I would agree with you. If he had some paper towel tubes in there, wrapped in red paper to look like sticks of dynamite, I'd agree with you. But bombs need more than just a timer.

So, I'll agree with you that it looked like a... TIMER. You know what else looks like a timer? A timer. A stop watch. A clock. You know what timers, stop watches, clocks have that bombs don't have? Blowy-up stuff. You know what hoax bombs have that timers, stop watches, and clocks don't have? Pretend blowy-up stuff.

So, every time we see a Hollywood prop bomb (which a hoax would try to resemble), there is always --without exception-- visible explosive material? You know, many laypeople actually think a hacker can make their desktop computer explode.

I told you that a layperson may mistake the AC transformer for tightly wrapped explosive material. If they don't know what it is, I don't expect them to conclude that it's safe without deferring to the proper authority.

To say it doesn't look like a hoax bomb because you don't see one critical component of a bomb is self-delusion.

I took one look at that picture and thought of the cases with a flap on the bottom that lifts to show another compartment. Should the teacher go feeling around, lifting flaps and opening compartments?

Yes, having a visible mock-up of explosive material is practically the only thing you could do to make it look like a more convincing movie prop / hoax. His English teacher probably saw the big, heavy, AC transformer wrapped in tape and had no fucking clue what that component was.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

Right. She didn't think it was a real bomb, the principal didn't think it was a live bomb, and the police didn't think it was a live bomb.

I know how Holly felt now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shs7VQhVvxA

If she thought it was real, or even if there was the possibility it was real.

She should have immediately evacuated everyone, in her classroom, and immediately alerted the principle, etc.

The fact that she did not do this, means that she is either incompetent or did not think it was real at all.

So I agree, that (assuming she was not rather incompetent), she did not think it was real, when she contacted the principle.

Or as Kryten would say "It is a bomb, no it is a ......".
See video for continuation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB-NnVpvQ78

 

[CZroe]

Yup and you what else they use to trigger IEDs? cell phones. They should be stopping all the kids from bringing phones to school.



As for racial profiling, I doubt that's the case. Most school deaths (mass shooting) are caused by Caucasian boys. I think this is a case of the English teacher not understanding what he was looking at and playing it safe. Of course now, homemade electronics will probably be added to the school prohibition list next to gun shaped pop tarts.

Actually, I'm not sure why any school allows cellphones in the classroom. Also, his clock was manufactured and not home-made. The original housing was home-deconstructed, if that's what you meant.

whaa?



are you insane? short on meds? something? How you don't understand what i said is rather amazing at this point.

I understand perfectly:
You said that questioning was OK but "suspension" was taking it too far
I pointed out that the "suspension" you speak of was simply the very questioning you said was OK. He was at school that day and welcome back the next. Where is the putative "suspension" that goes too far?
You went right back to claiming that leaving class/school for part of the day is "suspension" without ever acknowledging the contradiction.


And round and round we go...

Genius or not, he probably learned lot of general information about how electronics worked with the project, which was the whole point anyway. Even if the end result is just a clock, getting everything assembled properly took some studying and thinking about.

*shrug* I don't think it's a bad project at all, but the end result DID resemble what a kid might think a bomb was supposed to look like. That much seems undeniable.

He very well could have learned a few things (that's how I started: familiarization), but I think it's even less than you realize. It appears that the clock was never disassembled beyond removal from the original housing. It intact and the original housing was not installed, thus, it was never "assembled." I wouldn't count the case because it's just as bad as throwing it into a bag with that unsecured transformer.

Whose implication? Because it sounds like you are referring to mine. Regardless, talking to him outside of school is NOT the same as a suspension and doing so - even at the police station - does not require a suspension. A suspension, which the kid received, is a disciplinary action that remains on your permanent school record. I maintain that that is too much

Waggy's. Don't blame me if you can't follow. You injected yourself when I called out his contradiction.

No one thought that the kid had a live bomb.

Compare how they respond to hoax bombs and how they respond to real bombs and you will notice something: they are both serious offenses. Your point about no one thinking it is real does not show that they erred in their response. If it had been found to be a hoax bomb then the kid would still be in serious trouble. He's not. Sounds like they may have... *gasp* collected information, determined that there was no threat, and sent him on his way! The horrors. This is no worse than matching the description of an escaped convict in the area he was last seen heading toward. I haven't read/heard anything yet to indicate that his rights were violated.

So what were her actions after finding a "live bomb" in her classroom then.

Sounds like she called the authorities/higher-ups like you are supposed to. Durr.

 

[Ichinisan]

And you do know that a short time duration does not mean he was not suspended dont you? If he wanted to argue duration he should have done so. Come on this is simple stuff here

We're talking about a momentary beaureaucratic administrative status to explain why he wasn't in class while he wasn't simply absent. I've been beaten with a wooden paddle and suspended for talking in the hallway while waiting in line. I was a good kid, but they handed out demerits to me for absolutely nothing. I was suspended more than once for similar circumstances.

They didn't like having my twin brother and me, from a very poor household, soiling their nice school.

 

[CZroe]

Right. She didn't think it was a real bomb, the principal didn't think it was a live bomb, and the police didn't think it was a live bomb.

I know how Holly felt now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shs7VQhVvxA

...and NONE of that means that they didn't think it was a hoax bomb, which is still a serious offense that requires notifying the authorities. Durr.

 

[WelshBloke]

Or as Kryten would say "It is a bomb, no it is a ......".

I think Kryten would be calling the teacher a Smerrrr Heeeee...

A complete and total one.

 

[WelshBloke]

...and NONE of that means that they didn't think it was a hoax bomb, which is still a serious offense that requires notifying the authorities. Durr.

So nobody thinks its a bomb, the guy that made it says its not a bomb, no threats are made, and the guy that owns it gives a full and plausible explanation as to whats going on but you still think its a bomb hoax?

What you're saying is that you think carrying harmless electronics should be punishable.


Durr

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

I think Kryten would be calling the teacher a Smerrrr Heeeee...

A complete and total one.

I agree.

My guess would be, that even if you think something is definitely a hoax bomb (because you could be mistaken and it could be real). The device should be left alone. The building evacuated and the authorities should be called in.

Since there was no evacuation etc.

This would imply that, either they are lying about thinking it was a hoax or real bomb. To cover up what they were worried, could be called racism or something.

Or they handled the hoax/real bomb situation, rather badly.

Carrying the potentially live bomb through the school, and at no point evacuating it. Would be extremely dangerous and unwise.