Three fiscal lies and myths

[Doc Savage Fan]

Our percentage of debt to GDP is going the wrong direction in a big hurry. If interest rates go up again...then what?

 

[Matt1970]

You realize you're trying to make conservatives use logic and critical thinking. That's like ... I can't even think of a decent analogy to equal the level of impossibility of that.

I guess we will just never understand that kind of logic.

 

[Sureshot324]

The article is technically correct. Having a reasonable deficit is sustainable as long as the GDP keeps increasing, but that is basically making the economy as good as possibly right now at the expense of the long term. The long term plan should be to pay off the debt.

 

[Oldgamer]

You realize you're trying to make conservatives use logic and critical thinking. That's like ... I can't even think of a decent analogy to equal the level of impossibility of that.

Well one can only hope people will see past all that seething vitriol of politics and maybe some rationalization will get through..

 

[Matt1970]

Well one can only hope people will see past all that seething vitriol of politics and maybe some rationalization will get through..

One can only hope.

 

[soundforbjt]

lol. Canada and many European countries regularly have budget surpluses. Norway, Finland and Sweden keep fairly low debt to GDP ratios because they try to balance the budget as much as possible.

But they don't have the bloated military we "have" to maintain & grow each year.

 

[Ventanni]

To agree along the lines of what Sureshot324 said, a reasonable level of deficit can be maintained as long as our economy keeps growing. The problem I think we can all agree on, however, is that our current rate of deficit spending far outpaces our level of growth. Our economy is significantly larger than, say, Greece, Ireland, Cyprus, or Iceland, but if we continue on our level of deficit spending, we'll be asking for a bailout too.

 

[boomerang]

Will the progs ever stop trying to defend their policies? If they were working it wouldn't be required. The results would be self-evident.

 

[fskimospy]

Will the progs ever stop trying to defend their policies? If they were working it wouldn't be required. The results would be self-evident.

Economic evidence shows pretty convincingly that they are, at least in comparison to the alternative of austerity.

The problem is that conservatives refuse to reexamine their ideology despite years of being wrong over and over again. What do you do with people who won't accept facts and evidence? The austerity argument is at this point bordering on religion.

 

[Incorruptible]

Will the progs ever stop trying to defend their policies? If they were working it wouldn't be required. The results would be self-evident.

Never. They are a bunch of idiots who are too bounded by ideology. Their policies will not work and they never admit it.

 

[Spungo]

But they don't have the bloated military we "have" to maintain & grow each year.

Not a good enough excuse. Israel's military spending per capita is similar to ours yet they do a better job of handling debt. Maybe it's because Jewish people are good with money :awe:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4349610,00.html

(Israel)'s debt-to-GDP ratio expected to total 73.5% in 2012 compared to 74.1% in 2011. Israel also only country in West whose credit rating has increased since 2008

Did I mention Israel manages to do that while providing universal healthcare to all citizens? The answer is fairly simple. They have higher taxes. They understand that you can't live on credit cards forever.

 

[Matt1970]

But they don't have the bloated military we "have" to maintain & grow each year.

And look what happened when we cut it this year. Obama went out crying about the jobs lost.

It's funnyhow the same people defending the current out of controld spending under the the current administartion were out in full force not to long ago calling Bush unpatriotic and the worst presdient in history for his out of control spending.

 

[marincounty]

And look what happened when we cut it this year. Obama went out crying about the jobs lost.

It's funnyhow the same people defending the current out of controld spending under the the current administartion were out in full force not to long ago calling Bush unpatriotic and the worst presdient in history for his out of control spending.

If you cant' see the difference between the two by now, I can't help you....

 

[Matt1970]

If you cant' see the difference between the two by now, I can't help you....

I didn't ask for your help.

 

[Ldir]

Will the progs ever stop trying to defend their policies? If they were working it wouldn't be required. The results would be self-evident.

How are trickle down and more tax cuts for the job creators working out? Middle class is booming? Unemployment down to 3%?

 

[PokerGuy]

Did I mention Israel manages to do that while providing universal healthcare to all citizens? The answer is fairly simple. They have higher taxes. They understand that you can't live on credit cards forever.

Of course, and it has nothing to do with the $3 + billion dollars we give them every year right? 😉

You cannot produce more wealth by taxation, plain and simple.

 

[Matt1970]

How are trickle down and more tax cuts for the job creators working out? Middle class is booming? Unemployment down to 3%?

Things were good from the 80's till 2007. I would say it's working out pretty good. BTW, I thought we just raised taxes on the job creators?

 

[werepossum]

Things were good from the 80's till 2007. I would say it's working out pretty good. BTW, I thought we just raised taxes on the job creators?

Well, yes and no. To a great extent we've funded our growth in prosperity by printing more money and borrowing more money, and using that excess to pay people to make our stuff much more cheaply than we can make it ourselves. As we've lost jobs, we've also lost that part of our prosperity and wealth that those jobs previously generated, so part of this is simply our chickens coming home to roost.

Progressivism is an odd concept though. It essentially assumes that wealth can be generated by taking money from one person and giving it to another person. The only criteria for having one's money taken is to have made oneself useful to your fellow man in such a manner as to be rewarded under capitalism, and the only criteria for being the receiver is to have utterly failed to make yourself useful to your fellow man in such a manner as to be rewarded under capitalism. Hard to imagine a less sensible approach, but here again progressives come to our rescue with the concept that all the people can elect a few people who can then make smarter financial decisions with our money than we ourselves could make.

 

[Ldir]

Things were good from the 80's till 2007. I would say it's working out pretty good.

Facts say otherwise.

BTW, I thought we just raised taxes on the job creators?

The economy is improving too and the deficit is shrinking. Democrats were right all along.

 

[Ldir]

Progressivism is an odd concept though. It essentially assumes that wealth can be generated by taking money from one person and giving it to another person. The only criteria for having one's money taken is to have made oneself useful to your fellow man in such a manner as to be rewarded under capitalism, and the only criteria for being the receiver is to have utterly failed to make yourself useful to your fellow man in such a manner as to be rewarded under capitalism. Hard to imagine a less sensible approach, but here again progressives come to our rescue with the concept that all the people can elect a few people who can then make smarter financial decisions with our money than we ourselves could make.

When did you become such a liar? As soon as you talk about the left you start lying.

 

[werepossum]

Facts say otherwise.


The economy is improving too and the deficit is shrinking. Democrats were right all along.

None of which could happen without government help and guidance, of course. We're such children.

It might help us keep up if you guys started each day telling us whether Democrat economic theories are saving the economy or if Republican "austerity" is killing it. Right now we're seeing more flipping than Romney versus Kerry in a cutthroat Tiddlywinks tournament.

 

[Spungo]

Of course, and it has nothing to do with the $3 + billion dollars we give them every year right? 😉

You cannot produce more wealth by taxation, plain and simple.

Israel's GDP is about 240B and the heritage foundation says their tax revenue as a percentage of GDP is 36.8%. Do you really think a gift of 3B is why they can have a more balanced budget while providing better health care? Israel also has some of the best scientific research funding in the world. You can call it a communist shit hole, but they seem to know what they are doing. A lot of good research comes out of Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_Israel

 

[HumblePie]

It's called the Buzz Lightyear form of economics.

"To Infinity and Beyond!"

 

[werepossum]

It's called the Buzz Lightyear form of economics.

"To Infinity and Beyond!"

😀 +1

 

[BoberFett]

The economy is improving too and the deficit is shrinking. Democrats were right all along.

Are you on drugs?