Threads versus cores for gaming

[DrMrLordX]

Add in perhaps the Ryzen 5 1400 as well as its a cheap 8 threaded option.

Ha! Forgot those existed. Foolish me. No idea why anyone would use one of those though:

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu/#s=60&sort=price&page=1

$115 R5 1600 or $140 R5 1400? Hmm, decisions, decisions . . .

 

[mopardude87]

Ha! Forgot those existed. Foolish me. No idea why anyone would use one of those though:

https://pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu/#s=60&sort=price&page=1

$115 R5 1600 or $140 R5 1400? Hmm, decisions, decisions . . .

Whats going on with the pricing lol. Yeah it was a fair assumption that the 1400 would be cheaper but meh. It was more of a example anyways comparing Intels 4c/8t vs AMD then a recommendation. Also nice price on the 1600. At that price its almost crazy to jump on a Intel chip. You get what 4 cores with the i3 8100 for that ballpark price right now?

 

[DrMrLordX]

@mopardude87

Yup. Too bad the OP was talking about laptops though. On the desktop there's almost no reason to consider 4c/8t AMD chips.

 

[ondma]

Laptop & gaming are words that do not belong together.
If possible use cheap laptop for work/school/whatever the a cheap desktop (this could be a small form factor) with a decent video card.
I’d bet the cost wouldn’t be much different than a “gaming” laptop.
The problem is desktops are made for performance with no regard to portability, laptops are made to be portable and have good battery life. The two goals are opposite of each other.

@Sonikku see this link, you’d think the processors would have similar performance since the model numbers are so similar but they don’t have anywhere near similar performance
One is a designed for mobility cpu the other is not

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-8550U/3937vsm320742

Most gaming laptops dont use a low voltage processor, so I am not sure the point of your comparison. Despite your bias, there is a place for gaming laptops. For instance my grandson has a gaming laptop and it is very useful. He takes it to college, and also uses it when he visits his Mom in Ohio and with us in Minnesota. Much more convenient than carrying a desktop around between 3 different places. With essentially full desktop gpus in laptops now, you can get a quite decent gaming experience for a fairly reasonable price.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Most gaming laptops dont use a low voltage processor, so I am not sure the point of your comparison. Despite your bias, there is a place for gaming laptops. For instance my grandson has a gaming laptop and it is very useful. He takes it to college, and also uses it when he visits his Mom in Ohio and with us in Minnesota. Much more convenient than carrying a desktop around between 3 different places. With essentially full desktop gpus in laptops now, you can get a quite decent gaming experience for a fairly reasonable price.

Portability is a great use, basically I was saying if portability isn’t required don’t get a gaming laptop.

 

[Charlie22911]

Nonsense, gaming laptops aren’t what they used to be. I have an Aero 15x with 8750H and 1070 Max Q; I have CPU all core turbo set to 4.1GHz and GPU overclocked to 1600MHz core and 4GHz VRAM.
Meanwhile, during class I can run off grid for 7-8 hours. Closer to 6 if I’m browsing the web during irrelevant PowerPoint slides.
All this in a thin 15” class device mind you.

I concede that you can’t beat physics, I’ve lapped and repasted with conductonaut, and despite all that it is a bit noisy. You have to give something somewhere. But it doesn’t throttle if you don’t count your typical “power virus”, and it probably equals or exceeds the performance of many desktops owned by members of this forum.

As for FC5, I’ve refused to purchase it. That and Just Cause 4 actually, they both seem to perform poorly no matter what you throw at them.

 

[Sonikku]

Portability is a great use, basically I was saying if portability isn’t required don’t get a gaming laptop.

Who in blazes gets a laptop when portability isn't an issue?

 

[DrMrLordX]

Who in blazes gets a laptop when portability isn't an issue?

People who like to burn their laps and um, possibly sterilize themselves.

 

[VirtualLarry]

People who like to burn their laps and um, possibly sterilize themselves.

You mean like, "a typical normie". Who values the 'chic'-ness of a laptop, over a decent desktop. Just because. Their neighbor got rid of their desktop and got a laptop too. (Yeah, I know of some people like that. Don't understand why.)

 

[Carfax83]

I've heard that games like Far Cry 5 and many more looking forward want 8 cores and that any less will result in a tangible performance loss. If true, which is worse? An Intel 6 core processor or an AMD 4 core 8 thread processor?

To be honest, Far Cry 5 is a bad example. All of the Far Cry games except the first one runs on the Dunia engine, and uses no more than 4 threads. The best scaling engine that Ubisoft has are the AnvilNext engine, which is used for the AC and Tom Clancy games, and the Snowdrop engine which is used for the Division. The former will use up to 8 threads reliably, and the latter uses up to 6 threads.

For your other question, I would definitely go with the Intel 6 core processor.

 

[mopardude87]

@mopardude87

Yup. Too bad the OP was talking about laptops though. On the desktop there's almost no reason to consider 4c/8t AMD chips.

Makes sense . The Op leaves very much to be desired as you had to dig in to see it was for a lap top. I agree about the desktop chips that 1600 is such a beast at the price, everything else just pales in comparison. I would feel very bad for anyone who could not make the effort to afford the 1600 in a new build. The 1400 prices needs serious fixing or is there plans just to phase it out? Talk about how if they had that one in the $80 or so range it would just completely dominate the Pentium chips.

 

[Sonikku]

Makes sense . The Op leaves very much to be desired as you had to dig in to see it was for a lap top.

A mistake on my part on account of presumptuousness. The thought of debating four core CPUs for desktops at this point seemed so absolutely ludicrous that I thought laptops being the topic of consideration a foregone conclusion.

 

[DrMrLordX]

You mean like, "a typical normie". Who values the 'chic'-ness of a laptop, over a decent desktop. Just because. Their neighbor got rid of their desktop and got a laptop too. (Yeah, I know of some people like that. Don't understand why.)

Look at the bright side: such people are less likely to produce offspring. Er well the guys anyway.

The 1400 prices needs serious fixing or is there plans just to phase it out? Talk about how if they had that one in the $80 or so range it would just completely dominate the Pentium chips.

Right now the R3 1200 is reasonably priced at $60 street:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/TX4NnQ/amd-ryzen-3-1300x-35ghz-quad-core-processor-yd1200bbaebox

Which is scary good considering what you get. Personally I would not abide by a mere 4c processor in this day and age, but!. But. $60 for a 4c/4t chip that you can OC to 3.7 GHz (or higher) with Summit Ridge IPC is a pretty darn good deal. If you just can't afford $115 then it's not gonna kill you to use one of those things as a daily driver. Wouldn't want it for any new games though. R5 1400 is an oddity. I have no idea why those prices are staying so high. You better believe that they're gonna phase it out (along with all the Summit Ridge chips). They may not produce any 4c Matisse products at all to replace it.

A mistake on my part on account of presumptuousness. The thought of debating four core CPUs for desktops at this point seemed so absolutely ludicrous that I thought laptops being the topic of consideration a foregone conclusion.

To summarize, I'd stick with the Intel chips in the mobile sector. AMD isn't trying their hardest to compete there (yet).

 

[mopardude87]

Right now the R3 1200 is reasonably priced at $60 street:

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/TX4NnQ/amd-ryzen-3-1300x-35ghz-quad-core-processor-yd1200bbaebox

Which is scary good considering what you get. Personally I would not abide by a mere 4c processor in this day and age,

Yeah i just sold off a i5 4460+mobo+8gb to a friend not to long ago. I love how my choice of motherboard for that i5 4460 ended the death of that i5 4460 more then the chip itself. I didn't seriously see both 4c/4t and 8gb being phased out at the same time but it happened. The motherboard only supported 2 ram slots. In my defense i was pretty broken at one point and wanted a cheap WOT set up and for about $200 i had a G1820+ cheap mobo+8gb and a gtx650. The i5 4460 and eventually my 1070ti upgrade came later.

Yeah for $60 new that 1200 is nice but i would perhaps be more interested in maybe a cheap OEM Dell or something with a i5 or i7 before building new with a 4c/4t. I saw some locally posted not to long ago for like $80 and they included i7 4790 and everything else but a hard drive. Fully working apparently too but given my spare is a 8350 idk i didn't jump on any of them.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You mean like, "a typical normie". Who values the 'chic'-ness of a laptop, over a decent desktop. Just because. Their neighbor got rid of their desktop and got a laptop too. (Yeah, I know of some people like that. Don't understand why.)

^^^^THIS!!!!^^^^

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Who in blazes gets a laptop when portability isn't an issue?

Just because it’s the internet I have to point out the “required” part of the previous statement

 

[Topweasel]

^^^^THIS!!!!^^^^

Yeah I even have this in the business sector. I have to support 30 Engineers who tell me their machines are too slow for their tasks. But not a single one will let me order a desktop for them.

 

[lobz]

many of the "4/6/8 cores are enough" sayers (depending on max. how many cores the current intel CPUs have) don't understand, especially after you get your HT switched off by google that SMT is almost always useful, unless you ALWAYS want to quit and close every single other software every time you launch a game.
I womder if there is ever going to be a tech site that tests hardware in real case scenarios: how most people use them.

 

[lobz]

Yeah I even have this in the business sector. I have to support 30 Engineers who tell me their machines are too slow for their tasks. But not a single one will let me order a desktop for them.

there is a big problem with the education system in a place where such people can ever become engineers

 

[maddie]

Yeah I even have this in the business sector. I have to support 30 Engineers who tell me their machines are too slow for their tasks. But not a single one will let me order a desktop for them.

Can you set up a demo unit to show the possibilities? Might work wonders on people who think they know it all.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't entirely trust GameGPU's results, but F1 2019 in DX12 mode is the first title I've seen that actually had a tangible difference between the 2700X and 2600X.

many of the "4/6/8 cores are enough" sayers (depending on max. how many cores the current intel CPUs have) don't understand, especially after you get your HT switched off by google

Google is going to turn off HT on people's Windows/Linux machines?

 

[moinmoin]

Yeah I even have this in the business sector. I have to support 30 Engineers who tell me their machines are too slow for their tasks. But not a single one will let me order a desktop for them.

I honestly think the "laptops for everything and everyone" trend started in the business sector. When I worked at a big German company a decade ago everybody in the office had a laptop, even though stationary and essentially fixed in place with an additional monitor (or two). I think that was someone's funky idea of a "thin client" (which more or less involved essentially rebuilding the system from network at every single startup, but that is another story).

 

[AnnoyedGrunt]

Ha! I am one such engineer. I work from home and am in lots of meetings, and therefore want a laptop so I can run FEA and CAD on my local machine. I don’t like to remote-in to a desktop system because the graphics quality and visualization performance becomes poor, making it more difficult to select and manipulate CAD objects.

I’ve used to have a desktop and laptop, but the workflow in having a single laptop is much better for me. I use a Dell Precision Laptop 7510 with I believe a 4C/8T CPU and Quadro M2000 GPU. It works pretty well but only has 16GB of RAM which isn’t quite enough for large assemblies in CAD.

If I were looking for a gaming laptop, I would be more worried about the GPU and screen quality than the processor. Something like a 1660 or 2060 max Q. I’d want a 15” 1080P screen, IPS, and high refresh rates if available.

-AG

 

[ondma]

I don't entirely trust GameGPU's results, but F1 2019 in DX12 mode is the first title I've seen that actually had a tangible difference between the 2700X and 2600X.



Google is going to turn off HT on people's Windows/Linux machines?

The usual overstated anti-Intel FUD. Only thing I could find was something about it on Chromebooks.

As for F1 2019, it doesnt seem to really require a lot of cores or threads though. Granted, 2700x is faster that 2600x, but it was only about 5%. Just below those is the quad core 8100, and essentially tied with the 2700x is the non-hyperthreaded quad core 4670k.

 

[Topweasel]

Can you set up a demo unit to show the possibilities? Might work wonders on people who think they know it all.

They know better. I lie a little I have one engineering team that has a few decent desktops in a lab, not necessarily for performance reasons, more for extended testing that can go on for days and needs to be uninterrupted. So there are examples floating around. But they know how much faster that it can be but it's 3 distinct type of people, 1 old timers that felt getting a laptop was a status symbol thing, 2 straight out of college people that see a laptop as being a possible home and office solution, and #3 the 1% that needs to have their development system portable for taking it to customer sites to help them with integration.