Thread on contemplating VR games

[mizzou]

I'm having a hard time imagining these new VR headsets will work well on anything other then cockpit-style games. Here's what I mean by cockpit style:
-: Fighter jet, spaceship, vehicle.

I think it could possibly work well from a table-top oriented position as well
-: RTS armchair position (Europa Universalis); Floating God-like vision (think Black&White, Total War, etc.)

I don't think this will work well, for the majority of people, on the following genres:
-FPS, third-person action, Adventure, Side-scroller,

There will just be too much nausea and disorientation without complete 1:1 body movement. That means your hands, arms, everything is completely mimicked in game.

...........but the caveat is that it would be MOST impressive and immersive as a FPS. Hands down.

So what will happen....will there be a way to make FPS games not make 15-30% of regular gamers completely sick after 30 minutes?

Would VR Have to be restricted...almost like TrackIR...to make it less disorienting?

I like how the technology is now here...but I don't know if we completely understand how to make a proper VR game...based on the way we currently design and portray the FPS experience.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The thing I'm trying to figure out is when I'm in an FPS game I look straight ahead at my monitor and if I turn the mouse I am aiming the other way, say I do a 180deg spin and now am aiming behind me, to where I just came from. With VR I turn my head and what, I also turn my aim? Or just the camera and now I can't see what I'm aiming at until I also move my mouse to point the sights where I am looking?

It doesn't seem like it'll feel right since I will still have my hands in front of me, but be looking sideways and the game will make it appear as I am looking ahead. What am I missing? I mean I can't pull off a Linda Blair move and spin my head to look behind me lol

 

[mizzou]

The thing I'm trying to figure out is when I'm in an FPS game I look straight ahead at my monitor and if I turn the mouse I am aiming the other way, say I do a 180deg spin and now am aiming behind me, to where I just came from. With VR I turn my head and what, I also turn my aim? Or just the camera and now I can't see what I'm aiming at until I also move my mouse to point the sights where I am looking?

It doesn't seem like it'll feel right since I will still have my hands in front of me, but be looking sideways and the game will make it appear as I am looking ahead. What am I missing? I mean I can't pull off a Linda Blair move and spin my head to look behind me lol

this might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50fvL_EWYY

The biggest problem with FPS is that you don't have a fixed setting to determine your orientation.

In a drivers seat, the dashboard and controls will always be in the same spot. Regardless of where you put your head, you know the direction of the vehicle and the spot of the controls will remain fixed. In real life, we don't do anything unusual like stand up in the car, move upside down...we belt ourselves in and generally stay fixed.

FPS you can do so much, jump, turn in different speeds, lie on the ground. How the hell do you translate that from your couch?

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah move your head and not the mouse and you aren't looking where you're aiming. This seems like it'll be terrible. I've done a tactical shooting course IRL and translating what I know of that to a game requires you to always look where you are pointing the weapon. At least that is how I was taught, you keep your head on a swivel but you move your weapon at the same time so you can get a shot as soon as you identify a target. Otherwise you are going to get the shot off slower.

What I saw on that video in whatever mode they were using at firstseems odd to me. You can look where you are not aiming. That would make me mash the fire button when I look down a hall and see a target, later realizing I'm not pointing my weapon the correct way and lose the shot. The option to always shoot where you are looking is better but the fixed hud would be awkward for me. I'm used to always seeing my HUD now. Don't know if I could convert to that change either. Also you can run in a different direction while you swivel around seems to me, to be disorienting on the map. I'm only speaking to what I feel I might have a hard time with. I can't say everyone will feel the same or have the same impression.

The mode where you look where you want to shoot and the crosshair or target circle kind of gets dragged along seems weird too. You have to refine your aim with the mouse which seems like at times you might be dragging yourself off target and fighting yourself. The sniper scope they showed where the eye relief is dragged around if you move your head would be extremely disorienting since you never lose the field of view like you would when moving your head when looking down a real scope. The view "bubble" that you can see through is simply floating out there and moving and turning.

I dunno...I'm not sold on the functionality of it at all after that video. I skipped through most of the talking because I wanted to see how it reacted to movement etc. At about 27:26 The guy on the left who is commenting and not using it says there's a certain amount of disorientation that he doesn't get with a regular mouse and keyboard. That's what I think as well. I don't know how it's advantageous if you aren't moving your whole body, like your head can be on a swivel but you have to find your viewpoint with the mouse to aim there. With a standard mouse control you just flick it where you want.

Maybe like you said, an FPS game isn't the place to make the best use of it. Maybe a slower paced game where exploration and less twitch reflex action is required.

 

[mizzou]

I've said it before in other threads, but basically a mouse and keyboard can produce an extremely fine amount of movement. Using the pad of your hand, you can make an incredible amount of FINE motor movements without tiring yourself out or stressing muscles/joints.

Using minute finger movements to move GROSS motor movements (WASD) is also an ingenious creation.

Add them together, FINE and GROSS motor movements, you got yourself a great way to translate movement in a natural way.

Throwing a VR headset into the mix, it completly upsets your fine and gross body movement capability....

:


Here's a trend, notice how Oculus and Sony added a camera to help track you? That's just the start.

They will need MULTIPLE cameras and MULTIPLE VR points to make FPS work. Not just head movement...but gun movement...arm movement...leg movement, everything.

But then, how do you do this safely? You'd have to lock yourself in like a robot jock

 

[smackababy]

Here is how I imagine an FPS would work: Keyboard controls you actual body movements, like forward and back and such. VR headset controls where you're turning your head and your FOV, turn more than say 45 degrees and your body turns as well. Your mouse would control where you eyes are pointing, and in the case of a shooter, your gun. You have a decent FOV with just your head facing straight (like 170 degrees or something) and with head movement, that increases it.

Now, it will be a bit of a disconnect at first, having to control both your head and eyes, rather than just one. And it won't have a real advantage over just a mouse and fixed screen, but it will be much more immersive.

 

[xantub]

Problem with FPS is that they're not realistic. Your 'avatar' can do things a normal person can't, and since VR puts 'the person' in the 'the avatar', it all breaks. The avatar can turn 180 degrees in a split second, you can't do it that fast.

The thing about looking at something where the reticle is not there is only a problem for people used to FPSs. In MMOs since like Anarchy Online, I always liked that you could turn your head to look around while your 'body' (and target) was in a different place. It actually felt more natural to me than without it. Think about it, it's like if you were constantly wearing a neck-guard, not being able to look around. I prefer the disconnection.

 

[Paul98]

Lots won't translate directly without changes and adjustments. Much will need to be re thought but there will be ways and it will change how they are played. It will give us a wider selection of how and what to play.

 

[steve wilson]

I Think that some things just won't work well with VR, but new things will emerge, maybe a new genre of game all together. Some genius somewhere will come up with something great. I'm looking forward to it. I won't buy the developer kit, but I will be buying the finished product.

Edit: that's assuming that the OCR isn't a stupid price when it is released.

 

[Red Storm]

Some games will port over to VR well (racing and space games like Star Citizen), others will not. I think the focus should be on games built from the ground up made specifically for VR. I really think the adventure game genre will get a breath of fresh air with VR.

 

[smackababy]

I think the focus should be on games built from the ground up made specifically for VR.

If this works out anything like 3D movies, I sure hope not. I absolutely hate every 3D movie because they feel the need to cram in the garbage "jump in your face" crap that has no place in good cinematographic. Yeah, it was nice when I was 8 years old and fascinated by moving pictures coming out of the screen at the Imax. We've moved past that gimmick, give it up already.

 

[Red Storm]

If this works out anything like 3D movies, I sure hope not. I absolutely hate every 3D movie because they feel the need to cram in the garbage "jump in your face" crap that has no place in good cinematographic. Yeah, it was nice when I was 8 years old and fascinated by moving pictures coming out of the screen at the Imax. We've moved past that gimmick, give it up already.

Um, no. Those "3D movies" are just normal movies with the occasional "OMG random object flying towards your face!" gimmick. When I say built for VR I mean instead of lazy ports, we get games that are designed for VR. We will get them, it will just take some time for people to imagine the possibilities. Some things I'd love to see are underwater (and space) exploration, first person sports games, flying/skydiving, etc.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I imagine VR would be really great in a game similar to Skyrim. With all the exploration etc. Something similar to that.

Could make good use of it in a flight sim too.