Anyone using this yet or thought about getting it?
http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/product_img/cooling/r2_01.jpg
http://www.zalman.co.kr/images/product_img/cooling/r2_01.jpg
thread hijacked by an ASSHEAD, please delete
- Thread starter ThePiston
- Start date
- Sep 28, 2005
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its both. And i wouldnt trust it yet. The first version had massive pump failures.
Also what is your goal? is it supreme quiet? faster oc? Because i dont know how its performance rates up, but for the price u would pay, a swiftech kit would be much better.
I'm looking for total silence as well as performance. looks like they've done their homework on this one. the CPU block is coated in gold to prevent corrosion and has it's own radiator built onto it. THe quick couplers are easy to work with. the one thing i might replace is th NB block. I'll check out the swiftech stuff.
- Sep 28, 2005
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yyour miss informed. That thing that looks like a radiator on the CPU block is mearly a form of heat exchanger that all cpu blocks have. My storm will blow the zalman block away in performance.
The swiftech's APEX 220 will destroy this product for sure thanks to its apogee D5 pump and a dual pass radiator with 2 sunon fans which are pretty quiet. You can always swap them out to yates or adda or noctuna(yes they make super quiet fans also) even if u desire the quiet. And you will most definitely get better performance.
Theres a review of it at VR-Zone. Swiftechs h20 APEX Ultra would definitely pwn the living hell out of it. :X
this thing has no fans, that's why it's so quiet which I think is pretty awesome - put a fan on the Zalman and it would blow away those swiftechs - this radiator is huge. why go water if it's not silent?
- Sep 28, 2005
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blow it away huh?
You cant get this low with the Zalman short of dropping ice cubes in it directly
My loop
Loudness: About as loud as AF12's make. Which is close to nothing. You need fans inside the case anyhow to cool your power regulators and NB anyhow. Cant hear a thing when im in bed watching my movies on the 42inch LCD it was built for.
Pwned... need i say more?
Thats with the Apogee and a D5 and a BI Stealth GT. Basically all these perform close to if not on par with the swiftech APEX kit.
Please do some research b4 u claim something. the Zalman couldnt bring the cpu + gpu down anywhere near what a apogee and Maze4 can do no matter how many fans u put next to it.
Ok man, go back and read - I said WITH A FAN. And Imean a big fan that can cool the entire radiator. The Zalman has higher temps on purpose because IT IS FANLESS. A water cooler can only cool as low as the ambient temps and with radiators as small as your's I have to ask - what the h3ll are you doing living in a house that has ambient temps of less than 60F? Do you live in a tent? "Do some research before you claim something?" what are you in the 3rd grade? Do you really care this much about your "rig" man? I'm talking about a 100% SILENT PC. Of course you can get low temps with fans... go back and read - if you put a fan on a radiator the size of Zalman's, it will cool down any CPU better than the Swiftech stuff which just has a smaller radiator and less surface area. It's just physics. Any temp on load below the CPU's rated max temp is perfectly fine anyway unless you plan on keeping it for >5 years. Try to run your "rig" without the fans and let me know what you get. Compare apples to apples you guys. The Zalman is FANLESS. You give up some temp so you can hear NOTHING except the hard drives. Oh and the Zalman has opitonal NB block and GPU ram block and I also put resistors on my hard drive fan and PSU fan so they are not inaudible. Looks like you have at least 2 or more fans in your system exluding your PSU fan. The system will actually be silent, not near silent or even whisper quiet. Sheesh.
- Sep 28, 2005
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ambient temps were ~63 to 65C when i measured that.
and i clearly said U WOULD NEED TO FEED THE THING ICE to get the C/W anywhere close to a apogee on the cpu and maze4 on the gpu.
And your the one that said if you put a fan next to it, it will pwn even most high end kits??
my piece is 2 blocks short of high end, which is on my QX. That zalman wouldnt even pwn a mid end watercooling kit.
And as i said ur still going to need fans inside your case, so whats the difference in having 2 undervolted fans vs 1 undervolted fans in term of sound? very little if you ask me, but whats the difference in cooling compacity for both systems?? somewhere along the lines of ~8-9C
ummm.... APEX still wins
and i clearly said U WOULD NEED TO FEED THE THING ICE to get the C/W anywhere close to a apogee on the cpu and maze4 on the gpu.
And your the one that said if you put a fan next to it, it will pwn even most high end kits??
my piece is 2 blocks short of high end, which is on my QX. That zalman wouldnt even pwn a mid end watercooling kit.
And as i said ur still going to need fans inside your case, so whats the difference in having 2 undervolted fans vs 1 undervolted fans in term of sound? very little if you ask me, but whats the difference in cooling compacity for both systems?? somewhere along the lines of ~8-9C
ummm.... APEX still wins
your pic says your core is at 18.2C which is 64.4F - you mean to tell me your water system stays 0.6C above ambient??? Or below ambient according to your numbers.
- Sep 28, 2005
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to be exact due to the efficiency of my entire loop my overall cpu temps at idle rarely goes more then 2-3C over ambient. These arent load temps, there idle temps. My full loads never break 40C, meaning orthos + RHDIBL, and orthos solo will rarely break 35C, and when i had my storm in there on my X2, it would never break 35C on full, and the cpu rarely saw anything higher then 35C unless it was hot as hell outside.
And when i took that screen shot my wall clock thermo said 65 at top, and i took a regular diod thermo and stuck it in front of my case where the air gets sucked and it would fluctuate from 63-65C. Even then do your math, i live in Los Angeles, Cali. It rarely gets that cold here, and any so cal resident can vouch for this. Outside temps are usually 60C at the lowest arround 7pm, and no house tmperature will be ambient to outside temp unless u got no walls or have all your windows open.
Most radiators including the zalmam are more efficent at higher temps. True the temps i gave you arent concidered high, but the heat exchange from my BI GT stealth is most likely 2-3x more efficent then the reserator in terms of acting cooling so dont even start with the reserator being more efficent.
And radiator design differ by application. Because this unit was intended for passive cooling, adding a big honking fan that makes no noise wouldnt give you a performance a Black Ice or any other high performance rad would give. Lets not even get into how badly a thermochil rad will OWN it.
And yes this is the trait of most medium/high performance watercooling kits. Hence why i said please do some research.
And also yes, if u look carefully, my mobo temp is higher then my core temp meaning the top of the die is kept cooler then the thermal diode on the mobo. And yes i already pre calibrated my Expert to be accurate (added +6C to make it on par with coretemp) within 2-3C. But it could be slightly off, but not to an excess of 7C. So YES something IS working right in my loop.
7+6 = 13C and DFI Expert at max needed to be calibrated up to 10C on really off boards. Incase u think my calibration technique was flawed.
Care to challange me in another watercooling question :]
BTW im a 3rd yr vetern on H2O cooling, so i have done ample research and have enough experience in making claims on a product that i have been using for almost that length
Just admit the swiftech is better, and get one. U'll thank me in 1-2 yrs when you get greedy on performance and find its easier and cheaper to upgrade the swiftech then it is the zalman.
PS. the reserator is made of aluminum, meaning ur stuck with aluminum blocks or gold plated blocks. You use copper, your gonna find a nice hole in your reserator in 2-3months, thanks to chemestry. I hope you also concidered that into your research.
sorry, i'm having a hard time reading past all of your 'miss spellings'. you're getting off the point... i never said the Zalman was 'better' - all i said if you put a fan on the Zalman's radiator it would cool better than the swiftech and i am right. the radiator is bigger and has more surface area so if i put a box fan on it, it would cool better. that point is not arguable. i personally prefer the Zalman because it runs without fans. I want silence and you want better cooling. is it fair to say the Zalman is quieter than the swiftech?
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that is the whole point im trying to make. That the zalman cant compete with the swiftech period. A lot of people are looking at the reserator2 because they think its the quiestest option. By you stating "if you put a fan on it, it will perform better then high performance watercooling kits" is the statement im trying to make you retract.
And your consistantly sticking to that statement. There is no competition PERIOD. You cant compare the two because zalman just wont put out. The zalman in the eyes of watercooling, is a MUCH INFERIOR product then the APEX. In classes it ranks with the old koolance series ( the non 1KW Version ).
and your also forgetting the most important concept which that stupid company doesnt understand... (saying stupid because i am korean and im kinda pissed that they would do something stupid as mix metals in watercooling). All they would need to do is line the inside with copper and that would fix the aluminum issue.
Simple and Last comment i'll post to your thread because i see its going no where....
YOU NEVER WANT TO MIX METALS. NEVER EVER SHOULD U MIX METALS.
Well only exception would be in Gold and Silver, and the block is gold plated. But if you a little more tweek in cooling, good luck using other watercooling parts unless there not copper. Your gonna melt a hole in your aluminum 2-3 months down the road and you'll cry hard because you'll see a melted mobo with a fried chip, as well as a toasted video card, and a nice little puddle on the floor where your reserator stands.
I should find that picture i took of my friends old reserator and the nice fat hole he had because he swaped the cpu plate out with a TDX. Then you'll understand why im very weary about this product and why im trying to save you from making that same expensive mistake.
Seems to me like you ARE saying it would cool better.
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If you want the Zalman ... get it. You don't need to justify it to Aigomorla or anyone else. Aigomorla is just trying to help you out by letting you know that there could be better solutions for the money.
And don't worry ... no one is arguing with you that the Zalman isn't big.
From what I understand of water cooling and the Zalman ... the Reserator is just a big reservoir with a heatsink on it. It's not actually a series of small pipes going through a mesh of fins. While the air to metal surface area on a Reserator might be bigger then any other water cooling Radiator ... I'm also concerned with the water to metal surface area to move the heat out of my water loop.
Don't get me wrong ... I like Zalman stuff. Really like the 9500/9700 air coolers and liked the classic flower coolers. I'm not even telling you not to get the Zalman. I'd even consider using one for a simple non-overclocked HTPC in a cabinet where you can't get a lot of air flow. ... for performance based water cooling though ...
Me ... I prefer the simplicity of quiet air. So many nice and quiet air coolers these days for everything.
why are you trying to start an argument based on principles you are bringing up? i never said anything about galvonic corrosion or the quality if swiftech. i'm sure your beloved system does a great job. all i said was that Zalman had a larger radiator and if you put a fan on it it would cool better than a small radiator. drop it already.
wow, a coherent, well thought out response to my initial question. much appreciated. I've had water in the past with a small radiator that i had to put a case fan on and it was just as loud as my air, but temps were better. I'm going to be volt-modding my 9700GT so I just want a quiet water system. Zalman definitely needs to work on their radiator design. A normal multi-pass radiator with more thinner fins would be much more efficient. I thought about using a Scythe Infinity for the CPU and another large HSF for GPU + ramsinks + NB heat pipe HSF but the cost ran up to almost $150 and I'd actually be adding fans and the heat would still be trapped in the case (for the most part) so I thought water would be the way to go, but if I'm paying for water, I don't want any sound. Are there any other companies that offer effective passive water cooling?
I see what you are trying to do and the Reserator2 is probably the best way to go. I certainly don't know of anyone else building a passive water cooling system (ThermalTake makes a knockoff of the original reserator1).
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Innnotek has a better version but its still considered crap. And im not going to argue with you anymore because you have just proved how "NEW" you are to water, and im just wasting my time explaining to you the simple principles. Voodoo told you the concept behind radiators and Reserator, yet that conecept is still LOST to you. How well something performs is not based on how large it is.
If you want to take that example into direct context, a 120x2 Thermochil will perform on PAR if not better then almost all 120x3 radiators (minus BI GTX 120x2 and other Higher performance Rads) Zalman radaitor cant push the same BTU a thermochil can even if u were to extend the height 1 extra feet. What part of that do you not understand? the BTU numbers DONT ADD up regardless of HOW MUCH air you pass though it.
If you dont know what BTU means Wiki it. Then you'll understand.
Another example would be 655 pumps vs. the 350 pumps. Both are made by liang, one is 1/3rd the size. Guess what performs better? the smaller one. And no Zalman uses a pump thats not even in the same class as a DDC or any Liang for that matter. Id put its pump on par with ****** thermaltakes.
And my warning about the hole isnt to scare you, its to warn you. You mix metals, you'll get a hole. I dont care how much water wetter u drop in there, give it some time, you'll get a hole. That means your stuck with its performance. If you want more, too bad, u just lost 300 dollars on a non upgradable kit. That money to me is better spent on RAM and then going air cooling with YATES Looms.
Also you complained of noise yet you totally mised the concept in quiet watercooling.
1. larger the radiator, the more quieter fans you can put on it. that 120x1 radiator kit you used, im guessing it was thermaltakes. Because if it was a swiftech, i wouldnt hear u complaining about noise to begin with. sound coming from 2 AF12's at 42cmf, will push 24db of sound. Unless ur superman with super hearing, your not going to hear that from 3 feet away.
2. You dont understand the importance of BLOCKS. Instead your focusing on the radiator which your trying to blow up when infact the BTU it shows represents CRAP. Get a nautilis 500 from corsiar if you want a cheap watercooling external option. The unit on LOW will still outperform the Zalman with just a slight tad bit more noise, and guess what, its a 120x1 but its 3/8th's tubbing and sports all copper parts with a 350 pump. So you can drop in basically any waterblock on the aftermarket.
And NO the cheap zalman ALUMINUM waterblock wont take the heat output of a volt moded 7900GT. Well maybe if u Vmod at most to 1.4V which is stock GTX. But even then, your gonna have passive ram cooling cuz of the lack of fans, and if you exceed the 670mhz threshold, you need to bump ram to see any noticible increase. Which i say you cant do, because you refuse to put fans inside to help, nor can your kit support a watercooling block that features full plate.
BTW i had 710mhz on both my old 7900GT SLI cards on full plate waterblocks. meaning NV-78 style. They were expensive, but nothing got me clocks higher then that block. You need very high flow pressure to make those blocks work. And Guess what, their made out of cooper to. Infact 90% of all the mass produced blocks are made from cooper so u cant use any aftermarket blocks to help with the better temps.
And as voodoo stated, this kit was intended on quiet cooling and not overclocking. You cant expect uber overclocks with supreme quiet. It just wont happen unless you figure out a way to silence tec PSU's or find a uber 100cmf fan that dishes out sub 30db. Both dont exist.
You want passive, you get all the limits with passive, meaning u wont get good overclocks. In fact the Tuniq tower might even perform on PAR with the zalman given good case air flow
So go ahead and buy the zalman, ive warned you enough. But im warning you now, when you post a thread in concern of that product, i will be the first to jump at you and say I TOLD YOU SO.
dude, take your negativity elsewhere - I have 2 bachelors of science and a doctorate. seriously, stop posting on my thread please.
- Sep 28, 2005
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ROFL you ask for thoughts, i gave you my thoughts. If you were that set on buying it, why as for opinions? Just go out and get the thing.
Also bragging u ahve 2 BS and 1PhD doesnt show in your response unless u were geared twords humanities. Anyone that went though college level physics would understand more surface area = Greater C/W and higher BTU. Voodoo even explained the concept behind it, yet u fail to see.
I dont think you shouldnt be bragging about a PhD if u fail to understand simple physics.
Also bragging u ahve 2 BS and 1PhD doesnt show in your response unless u were geared twords humanities. Anyone that went though college level physics would understand more surface area = Greater C/W and higher BTU. Voodoo even explained the concept behind it, yet u fail to see.
I dont think you shouldnt be bragging about a PhD if u fail to understand simple physics.
Mixing metals can certainly lead to some non-happy interesting things.
Cool. I haven't looked at water cooling in a while. looks like a nice unit ... and the price is right. That little thing really have enough volume for CPU/VGA/NB? If so ... I might have to try that on a MicroATX box sometime. CPU/NB/SingleHighendVidCard
Quick look at Zalman's website shows an aluminum RAM water cooler for 7900's to use with the Reserators. Is there really enough cooling ability in the Reserator to do that with high overclocks? I'm not optimistic
Sounds like this is going to be locked away in a cabinet with no airflow (which to me is scary regardless of water cooling) ... The External Warercooling units sure seem to advertise this sort of thing though.
wasn't bragging and didn't say anything about a PhD. i can honestly say you are the most ignorant, awful person i have ever come across in a forum. that's all i'll say
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