Thousands in Karachi [Pakistan] protest at Sharia mosque

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
How is our police going after porn and prostitution any diffent than these people going after it?

hmm, because the police wont cut your head off if caught with it perhaps??

How does that make it different? They have different sentensing guidlines but everybody knows what they are.

You are comparing sentencing guidelines enforced by the U.S. justice system, a branch of your democratically elected government, to vigilante justice carried out by Islamic hardliners. You actually equate the two?

Hmm, what if me and my merry band decide we are offended by liberals with clown avatars. I'll just set up my own court, have my strongmen kidnap you, and bring you before it, and convict and sentence you for your evil clownish ways.

Don't you read or is it that you can't comprehend what you read? I said there the 'everybody knows what the rules are'. How is some stupid idea you think up because you get a bean up your ass about people with clown avatars have anything to do with rules against porn and prostitution. I am comparing two cultures who have similar prohibitions against similar or identical things and i one case it, holy justice, but over there it a bunch of religious nuts. I am asking you to look deeper and see something you probably never thought of and think about it. How are we different and why?

For example these barbarian, 'Islamo fascists', at least in your mind, have a body of law that goes back centuries to a time when there wasn't a police force, a central government, or a prison system. In a time when social order was critical to the survival of people who do you think enforced the law? It would have had to have been ordinary people like you and me, crazy religious loons, that applied the religious code according to their individual lights. They kept order in the way they could by the laws they were given just exactly as we do.

Dude, reread the thread before you talk about reading comprehension. The "rules" you are referring to over here are based in law, passed by our elected representatives, and enforced by our official court system. The "rules" over there are determined and enforced by a mosque, OUTSIDE THE LAW. It is no different from the KKK enforcing it's "rules" on blacks back in the day when they were a force to be reckoned with in the local community. The Mahdi Army is enforcing it's "rules" in Iraq right now. I guess since Sunni's probably know it's not safe to be anywhere a Shiite neighborhood, it's fine since they "know the rules". Are you telling me you cant see the difference??

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
How is our police going after porn and prostitution any diffent than these people going after it?

hmm, because the police wont cut your head off if caught with it perhaps??

How does that make it different? They have different sentensing guidlines but everybody knows what they are.

You are comparing sentencing guidelines enforced by the U.S. justice system, a branch of your democratically elected government, to vigilante justice carried out by Islamic hardliners. You actually equate the two?

Hmm, what if me and my merry band decide we are offended by liberals with clown avatars. I'll just set up my own court, have my strongmen kidnap you, and bring you before it, and convict and sentence you for your evil clownish ways.

Don't you read or is it that you can't comprehend what you read? I said there the 'everybody knows what the rules are'. How is some stupid idea you think up because you get a bean up your ass about people with clown avatars have anything to do with rules against porn and prostitution. I am comparing two cultures who have similar prohibitions against similar or identical things and i one case it, holy justice, but over there it a bunch of religious nuts. I am asking you to look deeper and see something you probably never thought of and think about it. How are we different and why?

For example these barbarian, 'Islamo fascists', at least in your mind, have a body of law that goes back centuries to a time when there wasn't a police force, a central government, or a prison system. In a time when social order was critical to the survival of people who do you think enforced the law? It would have had to have been ordinary people like you and me, crazy religious loons, that applied the religious code according to their individual lights. They kept order in the way they could by the laws they were given just exactly as we do.

Dude, reread the thread before you talk about reading comprehension. The "rules" you are referring to over here are based in law, passed by our elected representatives, and enforced by our official court system. The "rules" over there are determined and enforced by a mosque, OUTSIDE THE LAW. It is no different from the KKK enforcing it's "rules" on blacks back in the day when they were a force to be reckoned with in the local community. The Mahdi Army is enforcing it's "rules" in Iraq right now. I guess since Sunni's probably know it's not safe to be anywhere a Shiite neighborhood, it's fine since they "know the rules". Are you telling me you cant see the difference??

Hehe,

You end with the question, 'are you telling me you can't see the difference?' after I just got through explaining the origin of their system and asked you to compare it to ours. Hot damn, who asks for a comparison if they can't already see a difference? Your job was to think about what that difference is and understand why it is relevant and important and also if anything about them is like us. In short, I asked you to think rather that react like a rocket with a lit fuse.

We are talking, as I pointed out, about a country where traditional law has maintained the society for a 1000 years and which has now has also a rather corrupt and ineffectual government. This is true all over the ME, no? And all over the ME religious leaders have stood up to deal with growing crime and corruption and poverty that results from these worthless governments. The Taliban put brought order, brutal order, certainly, to Afghanistan and ended the reign of warlord terrorism as well as the poppy trade. We managed to reverse all that, no? The Muslim Brotherhood is growing in Egypt. Radical Islam has an appeal when Western Law and Order fails to be implemented, no? We see the rise in the west of Religion as a Political Force for the very same reasons. Liberalism run amok, the destruction of social order by 'anything goes' These 'mad men' want the same thing as many here want to, a decent orderly society that obeys traditional values and rules. If government fails to do its job, who will do it. In the ME at least, the traditional methods are still firmly in place. When people's children are being corrupted, are suffering or dying, God has a tendency to get really pissed.

The cleric gave the government a month to get its act together and do something. Probably a reasonable time since nothing would have happened if he's given them 1000 years.

You may worship law and order and understand how valuable it is, but where there is no justice at all somebody will stand up and see that there is, one way or another, especially where justice and morality of some kind or another is trained right into your blood.

In short, your simplistic notion that we are good and they are bad is a shallow point of view that fails to account for the conditions people find themselves in. If you want to combat religious extremism I suggest you make sure that government is doing its job and people have a real say in what goes on.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
In short, your simplistic notion that we are good and they are bad is a shallow point of view that fails to account for the conditions people find themselves in

At no point did we address whether I believe the principles they stand for are good or bad, because that is irrelevant to this argument.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are talking, as I pointed out, about a country where traditional law has maintained the society for a 1000 years and which has now has also a rather corrupt and ineffectual government.

So you believe that ineffectual government in the middle east is a relatively new phenomenon? To the contrary, I believe that something resembling effective government is a relatively new phenomenon in the middle east, and extremism is a reaction by the religious elements that arent used to having some other authority challenge their edicts.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You may worship law and order and understand how valuable it is, but where there is no justice at all somebody will stand up and see that there is, one way or another, especially where justice and morality of some kind or another is trained right into your blood.

You seem to forget that the concept of justice is purely subjective. The leaders of the mosque in Pakistan might consider it justice for the female minister who hugged another man to be stoned to death. I doubt she would agree. I doubt you would agree with the form of justice some Christian extremists would like brought on you for your support of homosexual rights and other "evil" things.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Your job was to think about what that difference is and understand why it is relevant and important and also if anything about them is like us

In short, the only way they are like us is that we both have beliefs in what is appropriate and inappropriate behavior. That is where the similarities end. We fight for what we believe in at the ballot box. They fight for it through intimidation, abductions, and show trials.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
In short, your simplistic notion that we are good and they are bad is a shallow point of view that fails to account for the conditions people find themselves in

At no point did we address whether I believe the principles they stand for are good or bad, because that is irrelevant to this argument.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are talking, as I pointed out, about a country where traditional law has maintained the society for a 1000 years and which has now has also a rather corrupt and ineffectual government.

So you believe that ineffectual government in the middle east is a relatively new phenomenon? To the contrary, I believe that something resembling effective government is a relatively new phenomenon in the middle east, and extremism is a reaction by the religious elements that arent used to having some other authority challenge their edicts.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You may worship law and order and understand how valuable it is, but where there is no justice at all somebody will stand up and see that there is, one way or another, especially where justice and morality of some kind or another is trained right into your blood.

You seem to forget that the concept of justice is purely subjective. The leaders of the mosque in Pakistan might consider it justice for the female minister who hugged another man to be stoned to death. I doubt she would agree. I doubt you would agree with the form of justice some Christian extremists would like brought on you for your support of homosexual rights and other "evil" things.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Your job was to think about what that difference is and understand why it is relevant and important and also if anything about them is like us

In short, the only way they are like us is that we both have beliefs in what is appropriate and inappropriate behavior. That is where the similarities end. We fight for what we believe in at the ballot box. They fight for it through intimidation, abductions, and show trials.

Yes, they fight for it in the only way they can. They do not have a democracy.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
In short, your simplistic notion that we are good and they are bad is a shallow point of view that fails to account for the conditions people find themselves in

At no point did we address whether I believe the principles they stand for are good or bad, because that is irrelevant to this argument.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are talking, as I pointed out, about a country where traditional law has maintained the society for a 1000 years and which has now has also a rather corrupt and ineffectual government.

So you believe that ineffectual government in the middle east is a relatively new phenomenon? To the contrary, I believe that something resembling effective government is a relatively new phenomenon in the middle east, and extremism is a reaction by the religious elements that arent used to having some other authority challenge their edicts.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You may worship law and order and understand how valuable it is, but where there is no justice at all somebody will stand up and see that there is, one way or another, especially where justice and morality of some kind or another is trained right into your blood.

You seem to forget that the concept of justice is purely subjective. The leaders of the mosque in Pakistan might consider it justice for the female minister who hugged another man to be stoned to death. I doubt she would agree. I doubt you would agree with the form of justice some Christian extremists would like brought on you for your support of homosexual rights and other "evil" things.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Your job was to think about what that difference is and understand why it is relevant and important and also if anything about them is like us

In short, the only way they are like us is that we both have beliefs in what is appropriate and inappropriate behavior. That is where the similarities end. We fight for what we believe in at the ballot box. They fight for it through intimidation, abductions, and show trials.

Yes, they fight for it in the only way they can. They do not have a democracy.

Perhaps you should read up on Pakistan's democratic republic style government. They are more democratic than most the middle east, and a sizable bloc of that government represents the more extremist elements, but when have we ever known Islamic extremists to compromise??

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
In short, your simplistic notion that we are good and they are bad is a shallow point of view that fails to account for the conditions people find themselves in

At no point did we address whether I believe the principles they stand for are good or bad, because that is irrelevant to this argument.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
We are talking, as I pointed out, about a country where traditional law has maintained the society for a 1000 years and which has now has also a rather corrupt and ineffectual government.

So you believe that ineffectual government in the middle east is a relatively new phenomenon? To the contrary, I believe that something resembling effective government is a relatively new phenomenon in the middle east, and extremism is a reaction by the religious elements that arent used to having some other authority challenge their edicts.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
You may worship law and order and understand how valuable it is, but where there is no justice at all somebody will stand up and see that there is, one way or another, especially where justice and morality of some kind or another is trained right into your blood.

You seem to forget that the concept of justice is purely subjective. The leaders of the mosque in Pakistan might consider it justice for the female minister who hugged another man to be stoned to death. I doubt she would agree. I doubt you would agree with the form of justice some Christian extremists would like brought on you for your support of homosexual rights and other "evil" things.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Your job was to think about what that difference is and understand why it is relevant and important and also if anything about them is like us

In short, the only way they are like us is that we both have beliefs in what is appropriate and inappropriate behavior. That is where the similarities end. We fight for what we believe in at the ballot box. They fight for it through intimidation, abductions, and show trials.

Yes, they fight for it in the only way they can. They do not have a democracy.

Perhaps you should read up on Pakistan's democratic republic style government. They are more democratic than most the middle east, and a sizable bloc of that government represents the more extremist elements, but when have we ever known Islamic extremists to compromise??

Perhaps you should look up thin veneer.

 

[palehorse]

Brilliant!

 

[Specop 007]

This makes Spec happy! 😀