Thoughts/Recommendations on proposed upgrades

[Sho'Nuff]

So I've decided to upgrade my current PC to join the soon-to-be prevalent ivy bridge crowd. Heres the checklist. Thoughts/Recommendations would be appreciated.

1. What PC will be used for.
50% Work (word processing, visio, etc.); 30% gaming; 20% multimedia (Blu ray/movie watching; photo/video editing, etc.)

2. budget
$1000-1200

3. Origin of parts
USA

4. Brand preferance?
-Intel processors
-Asus Mobo's
-Leaning towards an nvidia card (currently an ATI user)

5. current parts for potential reuse
8GB OCZ DDR3 1600 RAM
Radeon HD5970
60GB agility 2 SSD
Lots of "regular" bulk storage
huge coolermaster case (can't remember the model)
1100W Tagan piperock psu
20" NEC WMGX and 24" NEC WMGX displays

7. Plan on OC'ing
Yes

8. Resolution?
Display 1 = 1920x1200
Display 2 = 1680x1050

9. time frame
-Next month

Proposed parts
-Definites
ASUS P8Z77-V PRO LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s Intel Motherboard
Ivy Bridge equivalent to 2500k
Plextor M3 Series PX-256M3 2.5" 256GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler

Potential
- Samsung 256GB SSD
-16GB Corsair kit
GTX680 (whenever they are available)
COOLER MASTER COSMOS II

Stuff I will; be selling
-I7 860
-Asus P55D Pro Mobo
-Anything I don't reuse.

 

[mfenn]

A few comments:
- What features does the PRO mobo have over something like the LK that you absolutely need?
- The Plextor drive is quite high for a 256GB drive compared to other Sandforce offerings or the M4. Also, do you really need 256GB of SSD space?

 

[DSF]

Also, do you really need 256GB of RAM?

Do you mean 256GB or 16GB?

 

[Sho'Nuff]

A few comments:
- What features does the PRO mobo have over something like the LK that you absolutely need?
- The Plextor drive is quite high for a 256GB drive compared to other Sandforce offerings or the M4. Also, do you really need 256GB of RAM?

I quoted a 256GB SSD, not ram. And given that I am constantly managing space on my 60GB SSD (which is my boot drive, I would really like a larger SSD).

The pro has a couple of features I want, not necessarily those that I need. For example:

Better audio;
Dual intelligent controllers
Asus TPU
8 phase power
rear esata ports

Those features are worth the price difference (at least to me)

 

[mfenn]

Do you mean 256GB or 16GB?

Meant SSD, sorry.

 

[mfenn]

I quoted a 256GB SSD, not ram. And given that I am constantly managing space on my 60GB SSD (which is my boot drive, I would really like a larger SSD).

The pro has a couple of features I want, not necessarily those that I need. For example:

Better audio;
Dual intelligent controllers
Asus TPU
8 phase power
rear esata ports

Those features are worth the price difference (at least to me)

IMHO, when you start quoting marketing names for "features" on the board, that means you don't really need them. Especially when the "TPU" (i.e. auto OC bios settings) is one of the "dual intelligent controllers". The eSATA ports are easily added to any mobo with a cheap bracket.

The audio is perhaps debatable, but if you really care about audio quality, you should drop the difference in price of the mobos on a real DAC and amp.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

IMHO, when you start quoting marketing names for "features" on the board, that means you don't really need them. Especially when the "TPU" (i.e. auto OC bios settings) is one of the "dual intelligent controllers". The eSATA ports are easily added to any mobo with a cheap bracket.

The audio is perhaps debatable, but if you really care about audio quality, you should drop the difference in price of the mobos on a real DAC and amp.

My apologies for calling a product feature by its name. That clearly shows that I am ignorant.

Regardless, I want the auto OC features of the pro board. I'm sure I could tweak the bios and OC the hell out of IVB myself, but there is something to be said for convenience. Particularly when you have two kids.

FWIW, I have been building PC's for the better part of 30 years, and I spend a significant amount of time working with hardware manufacturers to patent system level hardware (I am a patent attorney). So I have a fairly good idea of what I "want." What I "need" is irrelevant, as I don't technically "need" any of the components I quoted.

Your comments re: audio are well taken, but I'm not interested in spending additional cash on a real DAC and amp. This is partly due to convenience, and partly because I listen to audio from my PC with headphones, not speakers. Speakers would be nice, and I have a good enough ear to want a good set. But when you listen to audio at night and have two kids and wife that wake up at the drop of a pin, speakers make no sense. Not to mention that buying a good DAC, Amp, and speaker set would cost far more than the $80 dollar difference between the LK and PRO, but would largely make no difference in my case because they would not be used to the extent necessary to justify the cost. "Better" audio /= best or ideal audio, and certainly not audiophile audio. but it is possible to "care" about audio and still not go with the best possible solution.

Your point re: the esata ports is also well taken. I threw those in because they are "a" difference between the pro and LK. If that were the only difference I certainly would not spend the extra cash.

One big feature that I like in the pro is the fact that it has onboard wifi. When I have guests at my house, my office often becomes a guest room. When that happens, I need to set up my computer in the basement to work. I do not have a wired connection available down there, so wifi is a great solution.

Anyway, enough about the Motherboard. You have made your point and have got me to at least reconsider it. Any other comments? Was thinking about going with a Samsung SSD vs the Plextor, as the Samsung is better reviewed. Thoughts?

 

[Sho'Nuff]

A few comments:
- The Plextor drive is quite high for a 256GB drive compared to other Sandforce offerings or the M4. Also, do you really need 256GB of SSD space?

I am building a high performance PC for work and gaming. What is all this "do you need" crap?

Asking whether I "need" 256GB of SSD space is a bit like asking if I need to sh!t in a toilet. Sure, less expensive options are available (I could sh!t on the ground, after all). But that doesn't make the fact that I want something better unreasonable.

Anyway, the answer to your question is yes. I "need" significant amounts of SSD space, because my current solution (a 60GB Agility II SSD) *constantly* runs out of space, forcing me to micromanage what is on it at any one time. The 256GB drive will alleviate that problem. And when you are talking about SSD's, aren't we in the realm of "convenience" and out of the realm of "need?"

(Edit to add smileys to emphasize the intended sarcasm)

 

[shingletingle]

You asked for thoughts and recommendations, and you seem to be throwing a fit for getting what you asked for. If you already know what you want and are going to be offended when someone chimes in, why did you bother asking?

 

[GoStumpy]

Asking whether I "need" 256GB of SSD space is a bit like asking if I need to sh!t in a toilet.

Ahahahahahah!!! This may be stolen and put in my signature if thats OK with you :biggrin::biggrin:

256GB of SSD is pretty much perfect... I have a 128GB SSD and I actually installed WoW on my storage drive because I didn't want to run out of space! Wish I didn't have to worry about that!

 

[GoStumpy]

You asked for thoughts and recommendations, and you seem to be throwing a fit for getting what you asked for. If you already know what you want and are going to be offended when someone chimes in, why did you bother asking?

Pretty sure he wants thoughts/recommendations on the products in question, not whether or not he needs what he is asking about.

I can see quite a bit of humor in his postings, so don't start getting offended here...

And really, he listed a 256GB Plextor SSD, why would we start questioning his need for a 256GB SSD? He's asking about the product, not the size!

Anyhooo.....

-edit-

shingletingle, I noticed you came into this thread merely to 'call out' soxfan... I don't think you get that right until AFTER you've added something constructive to the discussion

 

[mfenn]

My apologies for calling a product feature by its name. That clearly shows that I am ignorant.

Regardless, I want the auto OC features of the pro board. I'm sure I could tweak the bios and OC the hell out of IVB myself, but there is something to be said for convenience. Particularly when you have two kids.

FWIW, I have been building PC's for the better part of 30 years, and I spend a significant amount of time working with hardware manufacturers to patent system level hardware (I am a patent attorney).

Then you should be able to figure out what features are real and what are marketing bullshit. "Dual intelligent controllers" fall under the latter category because they're just marketing names for an ability that all but the most bargain-basement $60 mobos have.

So I have a fairly good idea of what I "want." What I "need" is irrelevant, as I don't technically "need" any of the components I quoted.

Calm down, we're building a PC here, not talking metaphysics or judging personal life choices here. "Need" means "necessary vis a vis the stated requirements".

Your comments re: audio are well taken, but I'm not interested in spending additional cash on a real DAC and amp. This is partly due to convenience, and partly because I listen to audio from my PC with headphones, not speakers. Speakers would be nice, and I have a good enough ear to want a good set. But when you listen to audio at night and have two kids and wife that wake up at the drop of a pin, speakers make no sense. Not to mention that buying a good DAC, Amp, and speaker set would cost far more than the $80 dollar difference between the LK and PRO, but would largely make no difference in my case because they would not be used to the extent necessary to justify the cost. "Better" audio /= best or ideal audio, and certainly not audiophile audio. but it is possible to "care" about audio and still not go with the best possible solution.

Actually, headphones are the perfect example of where a DAC/Amp are preferable to a high-end sound card. Headphone amps are very cost effective these days and are extremely worthwhile if you use high-impedence cans.

Anyway, enough about the Motherboard. You have made your point and have got me to at least reconsider it. Any other comments? Was thinking about going with a Samsung SSD vs the Plextor, as the Samsung is better reviewed. Thoughts?

The Samsung is certainly a very good drive and is cost competitive at the 128GB capacity point. The pricing on the 256GB model is really whacked out in comparison to the M4 (for whatever reason).

 

[mfenn]

I am building a high performance PC for work and gaming. What is all this "do you need" crap?

Asking whether I "need" 256GB of SSD space is a bit like asking if I need to sh!t in a toilet. Sure, less expensive options are available (I could sh!t on the ground, after all). But that doesn't make the fact that I want something better unreasonable.

Anyway, the answer to your question is yes. I "need" significant amounts of SSD space, because my current solution (a 60GB Agility II SSD) *constantly* runs out of space, forcing me to micromanage what is on it at any one time. The 256GB drive will alleviate that problem. And when you are talking about SSD's, aren't we in the realm of "convenience" and out of the realm of "need?"

Again, calm down. This is a computer we're talking about, of course everything is a convenience to some degree or another. The only way I know how to account for "need" is based on the requirements and budget that you've given.

So I will ask again, what is your need for a 256GB SSD versus a 128GB model? I understand the space management issue on a 60GB drive, but what is the reasoning behind quadrupling the storage instead of doubling it?

 

[GoStumpy]

So I will ask again, what is your need for a 256GB SSD versus a 128GB model? I understand the space management issue on a 60GB drive, but what is the reasoning behind quadrupling the storage instead of doubling it?

Because he wants to should be enough reason for us

 

[mfenn]

Because he wants to should be enough reason for us

That's the thing about online forums. We are all free to ask any questions that we want. This isn't some customer service job where the "customer is always right". By the same token, he doesn't have to answer the question if he doesn't want to.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

You asked for thoughts and recommendations, and you seem to be throwing a fit for getting what you asked for. If you already know what you want and are going to be offended when someone chimes in, why did you bother asking?

I wish there was a better way to convey sarcasm in textual form, as my intention was to poke a bit of fun at mfenn's focus on "needs" when it comes to PC components that few people actually "need."

My apologies if I came across as a prick. Definitely not my intention.

As for knowing what I want, I do have a good idea. But I was hoping for comments on the products themselves. I.e., what is good, what is bad, etc. I wasn't expecting to have to justify why I wanted a particular product.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Ahahahahahah!!! This may be stolen and put in my signature if thats OK with you :biggrin::biggrin:

256GB of SSD is pretty much perfect... I have a 128GB SSD and I actually installed WoW on my storage drive because I didn't want to run out of space! Wish I didn't have to worry about that!

Fine with me if you want to use that in a sig.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Again, calm down. This is a computer we're talking about, of course everything is a convenience to some degree or another. The only way I know how to account for "need" is based on the requirements and budget that you've given.

So I will ask again, what is your need for a 256GB SSD versus a 128GB model? I understand the space management issue on a 60GB drive, but what is the reasoning behind quadrupling the storage instead of doubling it?

Sorry if I came off as a prick in my prior responses. Sarcasm does not carry over well in text.

To answer your question, my SDD doubles as a boot drive and a storage drive for high priority programs. 128GB would likely suffice for my current needs, but I want 256 to provide a buffer so that I don't have to upgrade the drive for capacity reasons 1-2 years from now.

Also, I am likely one of the few people out there that maxes out the SATA ports on a motherboard. In addition to my current SSD, I have 5 HDDs that collectively provide ~4TB of bulk storage. Eventually I will consolidate some of those drives, but until then SATA ports are at a premium.

Also, the 256GB SSD's are roughly 10% more per GB than 128GB SSD's. I'm ok with that premium if it means that I don't have to micromanage storage and I can avoid another upgrade 2 years from now.

Edit: For the record, much of my bulk storage is used for work related purposes. I have ~2000 distinct client matters stored, which range in size from ~100MB-1GB. Much of the rest (somewhat embarrasingly) is used to store games, of which I have (literally) thousands.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Pretty sure he wants thoughts/recommendations on the products in question, not whether or not he needs what he is asking about.

I can see quite a bit of humor in his postings, so don't start getting offended here...

And really, he listed a 256GB Plextor SSD, why would we start questioning his need for a 256GB SSD? He's asking about the product, not the size!

Anyhooo.....

-edit-

shingletingle, I noticed you came into this thread merely to 'call out' soxfan... I don't think you get that right until AFTER you've added something constructive to the discussion

Humor was the intention. Thanks. I hoped that would come through when I started analogizing an SSD to a toilet.

Its fine with me if someone wants to call me out in a thread. No skin off my back. I can definitely be an a-hole sometimes, so its probably good for me to have someone call me out every now and then.

 

[richaron]

Well since a 256GB is at least a quarter of your budget is seems reasonable to question whether it is entirely "necessary". You would probably want to spend around the same on the video card... leaving only 1/2 the budget for everything else.

Personal preference I suppose; & it is, of course, manageable. Just seems a little unbalanced to me.

Edit: 256GB ssd with a gtx680 /= $1000 - $1200 box, unless you really cheap out on everything else.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Then you should be able to figure out what features are real and what are marketing bullshit. "Dual intelligent controllers" fall under the latter category because they're just marketing names for an ability that all but the most bargain-basement $60 mobos have.

OK so I will swallow my pride and ask you to explain what you mean. I thought the dual intelligant controller feature of the ASUS pro board was an ASUS specific hardware feature, not something that was found on "all" non-budget mobos, as you assert.

 

[richaron]

OK so I will swallow my pride and ask you to explain what you mean. I thought the dual intelligant controller feature of the ASUS pro board was an ASUS specific hardware feature, not something that was found on "all" non-budget mobos, as you assert.

~not directed at me but I like to pretend I'm smart~
It is ASUS specific hardware I believe. It represents two chips on the motherboard which control auto overclocking & auto low power modes. Whether they needed to implement 2 chips seems questionable, but they can market the hell out of it...

I've heard similar claims so I assume there are plenty of motherboards capable of these. It may not be as simple as the asus (never used them) & some of this functionality could be handled in software, adding a modicum of cpu overhead. There is also the argument that these things are better done manually: a function almost every motherboard is capable of.

I have these on my asus board. I've only enabled them for shits n giggles, would never use them long term. I guess you could call them a waste, but they were not my primary reason for wasting money on this motherboard.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Well since a 256GB is at least a quarter of your budget is seems reasonable to question whether it is entirely "necessary". You would probably want to spend around the same on the video card... leaving only 1/2 the budget for everything else.

Personal preference I suppose; & it is, of course, manageable. Just seems a little unbalanced to me.

Edit: 256GB ssd with a gtx680 /= $1000 - $1200 box, unless you really cheap out on everything else.

Note that the GTX680 is an optional component. I have an HD5970. The main driver for moving to nvidia is that I am sick of ATI's drvier issues. Every game that comes out these days flickers like hell until a driver patch comes out, which then proceeds to bork some other functionality of the card.

Also, I should have noted that the $1000-1200 does not include money that I expect to make by selling my old parts. I expect that I could make $100-250 off the old parts (cpu, cooler, mobo, and hd 5970), if not more.

 

[mfenn]

Sorry if I came off as a prick in my prior responses. Sarcasm does not carry over well in text.

To answer your question, my SDD doubles as a boot drive and a storage drive for high priority programs. 128GB would likely suffice for my current needs, but I want 256 to provide a buffer so that I don't have to upgrade the drive for capacity reasons 1-2 years from now.

Also, I am likely one of the few people out there that maxes out the SATA ports on a motherboard. In addition to my current SSD, I have 5 HDDs that collectively provide ~4TB of bulk storage. Eventually I will consolidate some of those drives, but until then SATA ports are at a premium.

Also, the 256GB SSD's are roughly 10% more per GB than 128GB SSD's. I'm ok with that premium if it means that I don't have to micromanage storage and I can avoid another upgrade 2 years from now.

Edit: For the record, much of my bulk storage is used for work related purposes. I have ~2000 distinct client matters stored, which range in size from ~100MB-1GB. Much of the rest (somewhat embarrasingly) is used to store games, of which I have (literally) thousands.

That is a reasonable explanation, no offense taken. Either the 830 or M4 would be a good choice. Personally, I would go for the M4 because the performance is similar enough that you won't notice a different outside of benchmarks and it costs less.

OK so I will swallow my pride and ask you to explain what you mean. I thought the dual intelligant controller feature of the ASUS pro board was an ASUS specific hardware feature, not something that was found on "all" non-budget mobos, as you assert.

Richaron is right on. The actual chips themselves are ASUS-specific, but there is really no reason beyond marketing that they actually needed to implement them as several hardware. The actual auto-OC and power-saving functionality has been present in other motherboards BIOSes for ages. Check out Anandtech's recent mobo roundups, you'll see that most all come with similar functionality.

Note that the GTX680 is an optional component. I have an HD5970. The main driver for moving to nvidia is that I am sick of ATI's drvier issues. Every game that comes out these days flickers like hell until a driver patch comes out, which then proceeds to bork some other functionality of the card.

The specific issue you describe sounds more like a dual-GPU issue than an AMD issue. Moving to a GTX 680 would definitely improve your usability, but that's mostly because it's a single GPU, not necessarily because it's Nvidia.