Thoughtful Time Europe article on US-European relations

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: hagbard
How quickly we loose site of the original topic, which was US/European relations.

Happens all the time, it still somewhat related to the original topic.

True. Seems to be the source of most of the current irritation.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: hagbard
How quickly we loose site of the original topic, which was US/European relations.

Happens all the time, it still somewhat related to the original topic.

True. Seems to be the source of most of the current irritation.

It boils down to, if we do nothing(mantain status quo), Europe is happy.

If we want a change in policy, Europe will be unhappy.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Iraq is just the icing on the cake. The Europeans hate us for 1) not signing the Kyoto Agreement, 2) Seemingly no respect for the environment, 3) Death Penalty, 4) "Cowboy" and isolationist attitudes.

On another note: did you all know that the United States is the only country that believes in volunteerism? I hadn't thought about that before.

 

[FrancesBeansRevenge]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: FrancesBeansRevenge

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: SlowSS
charrison, take a look at this aritcle written by Tony Parsons.

Tony Parsons

Now, that's one sided and biased 😉

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Why? Because he disagrees with you?

Exactly. What qualifies as unbiased is in the eye of the beholder.

Indeed.

There are four sides to every story: your's, mine, Moonbeam's, and the truth.

🙂

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Iraq is just the icing on the cake. The Europeans hate us for 1) not signing the Kyoto Agreement, 2) Seemingly no respect for the environment, 3) Death Penalty, 4) "Cowboy" and isolationist attitudes.

Well GTaudiophile, if I recall correctly, I believe you travel to Europe quite often. Therefore, you know as well as I do that the Europeans usually don't "hate" us as individuals, per se. They (as in some not all) simply despise our society, government and its inherent policies. By and large, the Euros have cringed and railed at U.S. policies since the 1950s. I wonder why? 😉

On another note: did you all know that the United States is the only country that believes in volunteerism? I hadn't thought about that before.

Saw that in a couple of polls.

 

[charrison]

4 more chemical warheads found...

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: charrison
4 more chemical warheads found...

I'm not surprised with these findings. My gut feeling tells me that there will be more.

However, I'm not convinced just yet that those empty warheads are the "smoking gun"
until further analysis of the warheads are completed.

I am concerned with finding of documents that might detail Iraq's nuclear program.

Saddam's Nuclear weapons program???

United Nations weapons inspectors have uncovered evidence that proves
Saddam Hussein is trying to develop an arsenal of nuclear weapons, The Telegraph can reveal.
The discovery was made following spot checks last week on the homes of two Iraqi nuclear physicists in Baghdad.

Acting on information provided by Western intelligence, the UN inspection teams discovered a number
of documents proving that Saddam is continuing with his attempts to develop nuclear weapons,
contrary to his public declarations that Iraq is no longer interested in producing weapons of mass destruction.[/b]

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: charrison
4 more chemical warheads found...

NBC NEWS AND NEWS SERVICES

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 19 ? Top U.N. officials said Iraq disclosed it found four more empty chemical warheads like a dozen others found last week. The director of the United Nations nuclear agency said after a Sunday meeting with Iraqi officials ? the meeting at which Iraq revealed the additional warheads ? that ?constructive? disarmament talks were ?making progress.?

Just so its clear.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Iraq is just the icing on the cake. The Europeans hate us for 1) not signing the Kyoto Agreement, 2) Seemingly no respect for the environment, 3) Death Penalty, 4) "Cowboy" and isolationist attitudes.

Well GTaudiophile, if I recall correctly, I believe you travel to Europe quite often. Therefore, you know as well as I do that the Europeans usually don't "hate" us as individuals, per se. They (as in some not all) simply despise our society, government and its inherent policies. By and large, the Euros have cringed and railed at U.S. policies since the 1950s. I wonder why? 😉

On another note: did you all know that the United States is the only country that believes in volunteerism? I hadn't thought about that before.

Saw that in a couple of polls.

Oh, I was using "us" as Americans in general...or maybe just Bush. But of course, Europeans are as lovely as can be for the most part on an individual basis. And "hate" perhaps too strong a word; "disagree" would be better.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Iraq is just the icing on the cake. The Europeans hate us for 1) not signing the Kyoto Agreement, 2) Seemingly no respect for the environment, 3) Death Penalty, 4) "Cowboy" and isolationist attitudes.

Well GTaudiophile, if I recall correctly, I believe you travel to Europe quite often. Therefore, you know as well as I do that the Europeans usually don't "hate" us as individuals, per se. They (as in some not all) simply despise our society, government and its inherent policies. By and large, the Euros have cringed and railed at U.S. policies since the 1950s. I wonder why? 😉

On another note: did you all know that the United States is the only country that believes in volunteerism? I hadn't thought about that before.

Saw that in a couple of polls.

Oh, I was using "us" as Americans in general...or maybe just Bush. But of course, Europeans are as lovely as can be for the most part on an individual basis. And "hate" perhaps too strong a word; "disagree" would be better.

I used a poor choice of words when stating "despise" above. Indeed, disagree is much better. 🙂

 

[Corn]

Just so its clear.

Just so what's clear? If I remember correctly, didn't a deadline already pass for disclosing weapons of this type?

Oh, that's right, they were "forgotten about", right? Yeah, until we start finding them............

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
what does not doing business with the US have anything to do with it?!? the ME is incredibly easy to drill in, especially since they drill in a very well known oil field. heck, they don't even have to do all that much sighting for their wells, what they're doing is placing them directly opposite the wells on the kuwaiti side of the border! theres very very little cost of doing business there, and you get a pretty high quality grade of crude if i remember.

Well, it's up to Iraq who they let drill in their country is it not? And isn't it understandable if they are reluctant to do business with USA? American companies can't just march in to the country and say "we will drill here! Who cares what the iraqis think!".

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: ElFenix
what does not doing business with the US have anything to do with it?!? the ME is incredibly easy to drill in, especially since they drill in a very well known oil field. heck, they don't even have to do all that much sighting for their wells, what they're doing is placing them directly opposite the wells on the kuwaiti side of the border! theres very very little cost of doing business there, and you get a pretty high quality grade of crude if i remember.

Well, it's up to Iraq who they let drill in their country is it not? And isn't it understandable if they are reluctant to do business with USA? American companies can't just march in to the country and say "we will drill here! Who cares what the iraqis think!".

what does that have to do with whether french or russian companies are making money or not?!?!?!

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: ElFenix
what does not doing business with the US have anything to do with it?!? the ME is incredibly easy to drill in, especially since they drill in a very well known oil field. heck, they don't even have to do all that much sighting for their wells, what they're doing is placing them directly opposite the wells on the kuwaiti side of the border! theres very very little cost of doing business there, and you get a pretty high quality grade of crude if i remember.

Well, it's up to Iraq who they let drill in their country is it not? And isn't it understandable if they are reluctant to do business with USA? American companies can't just march in to the country and say "we will drill here! Who cares what the iraqis think!".

what does that have to do with whether french or russian companies are making money or not?!?!?!

Someone has to do it. Either Iraqis themselves or someone else. They chose not to let americans do it (which is understandable, considering the cirmumstances), so they let euros handle it. And like I said, the embargo severly limits ability to profit from Iraqi oil right now.

But, like I said earlier, I don't think there really are "good guys" in this case.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Nemesis77

Originally posted by: ElFenix
what does not doing business with the US have anything to do with it?!? the ME is incredibly easy to drill in, especially since they drill in a very well known oil field. heck, they don't even have to do all that much sighting for their wells, what they're doing is placing them directly opposite the wells on the kuwaiti side of the border! theres very very little cost of doing business there, and you get a pretty high quality grade of crude if i remember.

Well, it's up to Iraq who they let drill in their country is it not? And isn't it understandable if they are reluctant to do business with USA? American companies can't just march in to the country and say "we will drill here! Who cares what the iraqis think!".

what does that have to do with whether french or russian companies are making money or not?!?!?!

Someone has to do it. Either Iraqis themselves or someone else. They chose not to let americans do it (which is understandable, considering the cirmumstances), so they let euros handle it. And like I said, the embargo severly limits ability to profit from Iraqi oil right now.

But, like I said earlier, I don't think there really are "good guys" in this case.

I think you have it backwards. The only reason the US was even buying oil from iraq was the oil for food/medicine program.

 

[Nemesis77]

Originally posted by: charrison
I think you have it backwards. The only reason the US was even buying oil from iraq was the oil for food/medicine program.

It's been few days, I can hardly remember what we were talking about 😉. I believe it was about arguments regarding "USA wants to steal Iraqs oil!" and "Euros are the ones doing the drilling in Iraq!". My point in that case is that Iraq is the one who decides who can drill in their country and who doesn't, and it's understandable that they don't want american companies in the country, considerind the circumstances.