Thoughtful commentary on the state of our country

[Craig234]

If you are interested in a better commentary in an hour long interview, this thread is for you.

And good for you.

This is Chris Hedges (see my sig) talking at length about the situation in the US. Rather than my posting some bit of what he has to say, I suggest the few who might watch it do so, and can comment on it. It seems to me it has a lot of very useful points about the reason problems are occurring, and some suggestions. It's largely a criticism of the Democratic Party. Which does not make it in favor of the Republican Party.

Hedges has seen a lot of relevant things - he's reported on 'decaying countries'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vteQnUmCj9U

 

[spidey07]

Get rid of this president. He is purposefully killing this nation.

It's on purpose. That is the state of the union.

 

[xj0hnx]

No wonder you're so screwed up.

 

[Craig234]

Posts from people who listen to the interview and comment on it are welcome. Not trash.

 

[xj0hnx]

Posts from people who listen to the interview and comment on it are welcome. Not trash.

This is why you're a joke.

What you really meant to say was ...

"Post from people who listened to the interview and agree with it, and everything I agree with are welcome, if you don't agree with me you're trash."

 

[Jimmah]

Get rid of this president. He is purposefully killing this nation.

It's on purpose. That is the state of the union.

I know you feel strongly about this, but as an outsider let me comment a little on this. Your president yes has an agenda which you don't like and is largely left of centre, thus making any decision or direction he tries to go the wrong one further pushing your dislike and concern. I follow your politics far more than I should, likely, and really aside from a few flubs and attempts to push some well-needed reform (not saying the healthcare was 'the' needed plan, just that something is needed) he doesn't look all that terrible.

Here's what I believe, and a lot of your country believe from what I've read, is killing your nation (this is only what I've read here and there so please take it with a pound of salt):

Outsourcing
Overreaching military
Lack of affordable healthcare
Batshit crazy religous agendas being pushed
Your emerging police state
Favoring the wealthy few over, well pretty much everyone else
De-regulation of important sectors with global reaches
Lack of focus on education and the desire to push everyone through no matter the cost
Corruption throughout government and the revolving door

While Obama may not be amazing or the best president ever he's definitely not on the 'things destroying america' list, seriously man he would have to be outright nuts to even try to kill off the US, and being just a president he doesn't have nearly the power or reach to do so.

IMO, serious reflection would be useful for a lot of your populace with a lot of thought put into re-evaluating your priorities, perhaps a move away from the 'everyone is an island' philosophy I see repeated here every effing day.

Just my .02, I was not trying to attack anyone just expressing myself.

 

[FaaR]

I know you feel strongly about this, but as an outsider let me comment a little on this. Your president yes has an agenda which you don't like and is largely left of centre

ACTUALLY...the thing is, Obama is NOT "left of centre". He's as right as any republican president prior to Dubya Bush.

That neocons successfully hijacked the republican party and right-shifted its policies into ludicrous territory ten-ish years ago, seemingly without most people even noticing it happening, doesn't change that. For all intents and purposes, Obama is Bush Sr.

 

[Anarchist420]

^^^Wrong^^^ Obama and neoconservatism are left of center. Even though they're not far left, they're certainly not conservatism.

The thing I don't get is why so many far-leftists still plan to vote for Obama, yet the neocons hate him, when he's done a lot more for the neocons (Troskyites who shifted slightly to the right, but still remain left of center) than he has done for the far left.

 

[Greenman]

I know you feel strongly about this, but as an outsider let me comment a little on this. Your president yes has an agenda which you don't like and is largely left of centre, thus making any decision or direction he tries to go the wrong one further pushing your dislike and concern. I follow your politics far more than I should, likely, and really aside from a few flubs and attempts to push some well-needed reform (not saying the healthcare was 'the' needed plan, just that something is needed) he doesn't look all that terrible.

Here's what I believe, and a lot of your country believe from what I've read, is killing your nation (this is only what I've read here and there so please take it with a pound of salt):

Outsourcing
Overreaching military
Lack of affordable healthcare
Batshit crazy religous agendas being pushed
Your emerging police state
Favoring the wealthy few over, well pretty much everyone else
De-regulation of important sectors with global reaches
Lack of focus on education and the desire to push everyone through no matter the cost
Corruption throughout government and the revolving door

While Obama may not be amazing or the best president ever he's definitely not on the 'things destroying america' list, seriously man he would have to be outright nuts to even try to kill off the US, and being just a president he doesn't have nearly the power or reach to do so.

IMO, serious reflection would be useful for a lot of your populace with a lot of thought put into re-evaluating your priorities, perhaps a move away from the 'everyone is an island' philosophy I see repeated here every effing day.

Just my .02, I was not trying to attack anyone just expressing myself.

I would disagree with much of that. Our number one killing crises right now is government spending and growth.

 

[matt0611]

I would disagree with much of that. Our number one killing crises right now is government spending and growth.

But don't you see? We need to grow government to solve all these problem!
Lololololol

If we just put the right bureaucrats in charge of this stuff and get more money and more regulations and laws we can fix everything!
I promise it will work this time!

 

[Jimmah]

But don't you see? We need to grow government to solve all these problem!
Lololololol

If we just put the right bureaucrats in charge of this stuff and get more money and more regulations and laws we can fix everything!
I promise it will work this time!

I agree your government is a huge part of the problem, but it isn't the sole issue nor is it the main contributor. Massive debt on every level, lack of jobs, terrible health care system, crazy spending by gov/everyone, etc etc etc.... it's a poor business model that will lead to your downfall, and you'll have no one to blame but yourselves.

I think your society is just too entrenched on either side for anything to happen, those with the money will flee, those blinded by partisan politics will stay along with those too poor to move.

We will more than likely see the US eat itself alive int he next 60 years unless your society makes a big change.

 

[soundforbjt]

I would disagree with much of that. Our number one killing crises right now is government spending and growth.

You do know there are less government employees per 1000 people than there was in 1960?

Spending is a big problem, it's just no one can agree on what gets cut.

 

[soundforbjt]

But don't you see? We need to grow government to solve all these problem!
Lololololol

If we just put the right bureaucrats in charge of this stuff and get more money and more regulations and laws we can fix everything!
I promise it will work this time!

We see right now where less regulations and less revenue has gotten us.

 

[Attic]

Our government system has a difficult time electing individuals with integrity and wisdom and our country is suffering from decisions made by indviduals who lack these important qualifications for justly governing a nation.

As a nation our values, particularly of those who are wealthy and powerful, have lead directly to the current state of our country.

Our values need to be adjusted otherwise we will never be able to survive the exploit of an entire nation for the gain of a select few. Government is not the answer, you and I are. I worry about those who seek the answer from government instead of putting the responsilibty in their peers.

 

[matt0611]

We see right now where less regulations and less revenue has gotten us.

Yup, we've seen the huge failure of government to properly manage the economy, lets do more please!
If we only had the right regulations lol!
Just a few more regulators and few more laws! We're almost there!

 

[nonlnear]

We see right now where less regulations and less revenue has gotten us.

Anyone on either side of the debate who believes it's about the quantity of regulations has been duped.

 

[woolfe9999]

Anyone on either side of the debate who believes it's about the quantity of regulations has been duped.

The quality of regulations, and the degree of enforcement of them, are often the issue, but that is irrelevant unless or until we actually have them. We didn't have the regulatory tools to prevent what happened in 9/2008 because they were stripped away. It was a "philosophy" of deregulation- driven by undue corporate influence in our political system - which made it impossible for the government to prevent this from becoming a disaster.

Since no one has listened to the commentary, Hedges' point is that the democrats sold out to corporate interests starting with Clinton.

 

[nonlnear]

The quality of regulations, and the degree of enforcement of them, are often the issue, but that is irrelevant unless or until we actually have them. We didn't have the regulatory tools to prevent what happened in 9/2008 because they were stripped away. It was a "philosophy" of deregulation- driven by undue corporate influence in our political system - which made it impossible for the government to prevent this from becoming a disaster.

The thing is the "philosophy" of deregulation is just the hook for the voters. Inside the game of power there is no such thing. There are only lobbyists fighting for bad regulation or against [good or bad] regulation. Yes, it's possible that a lobbyist fights for good regulation, but it's so rare that I don't think it deserves a mention.) They paint it up for the voters with a philosophy when it's time to get their stooges elected but it's really immaterial to why any of the truly powerful lobbyists are fighting for what they are fighting for. I don't equate visibility of a lobbyist with their power. I wouldn't call the NRA or the AARP (to give an example of one I dislike and one I'm sympathetic with) "powerful" even though they are highly visible. The powerful ones in my book start with the financiers, military contractors, trade lobbyists, and the various federal agencies who pay themselves to lobby for greater jurisdiction.

Since no one has listened to the commentary, Hedges' point is that the democrats sold out to corporate interests starting with Clinton.

I PM'd Criag asking for a transcript because I have no functional sound right now. I would have listened to it if I could. If that was the gist of the commentary then I probably agree with it in large part. I may disagree with Craig's guiding philosophy, but we find ourselves agreeing about some core issues in what some would consider surprising ways - much like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Get rid of this president. He is purposefully killing this nation.

It's on purpose. That is the state of the union.

Do you even wonder why nobody takes you seriously?

 

[Greenman]

I agree your government is a huge part of the problem, but it isn't the sole issue nor is it the main contributor. Massive debt on every level, lack of jobs, terrible health care system, crazy spending by gov/everyone, etc etc etc.... it's a poor business model that will lead to your downfall, and you'll have no one to blame but yourselves.

I think your society is just too entrenched on either side for anything to happen, those with the money will flee, those blinded by partisan politics will stay along with those too poor to move.

We will more than likely see the US eat itself alive int he next 60 years unless your society makes a big change.

I agree with your last statement, nothing else. But I doubt we'd agree on the direction of change. I also think most country's are going to go down in flames as well. The UK is already a police state, Greece is finished, when the rest of the world stops dumping cash into that pit it's all over. Japan is further in the hole than the US. Every country has big problems, because we're all connected.

 

[boochi]

You do know there are less government employees per 1000 people than there was in 1960?

Spending is a big problem, it's just no one can agree on what gets cut.

You do know that there were more than a million more active U.S. military at the time don't you? We had something you might not be old enough to remember called the Red Menace to worry about. Besides counting the size of the military at that time, the rest of the federal government was much smaller per capita than it is today.

 

[woolfe9999]

The thing is the "philosophy" of deregulation is just the hook for the voters. Inside the game of power there is no such thing. There are only lobbyists fighting for bad regulation or against [good or bad] regulation. Yes, it's possible that a lobbyist fights for good regulation, but it's so rare that I don't think it deserves a mention.) They paint it up for the voters with a philosophy when it's time to get their stooges elected but it's really immaterial to why any of the truly powerful lobbyists are fighting for what they are fighting for. I don't equate visibility of a lobbyist with their power. I wouldn't call the NRA or the AARP (to give an example of one I dislike and one I'm sympathetic with) "powerful" even though they are highly visible. The powerful ones in my book start with the financiers, military contractors, trade lobbyists, and the various federal agencies who pay themselves to lobby for greater jurisdiction.

The fact that I chose to put the word "philosophy" in quotations before you did should give you a clue as to why I don't disagree with a thing you said here.

I PM'd Criag asking for a transcript because I have no functional sound right now. I would have listened to it if I could. If that was the gist of the commentary then I probably agree with it in large part. I may disagree with Craig's guiding philosophy, but we find ourselves agreeing about some core issues in what some would consider surprising ways - much like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich.

There's a lot more to it than that, though the other points are basically correlaries of the same theme. Liberal institutions have sold out the people they purport to represent. They haven't delivered on their promises. The rage of the tea party, though based on mistaken beliefs and assumptions, is in some ways correctly directed at liberals and government, both of whom have failed the working class.

It's worth reading/listening to, but it's quite depressing, even as present day political commentary goes. Disclaimer: Hedges is a liberal, in spite of the fact that the commentary consists mainly of a critique of liberals.

- wolf

 

[irishScott]

I agree your government is a huge part of the problem, but it isn't the sole issue nor is it the main contributor. Massive debt on every level, lack of jobs, terrible health care system, crazy spending by gov/everyone, etc etc etc.... it's a poor business model that will lead to your downfall, and you'll have no one to blame but yourselves.

I think your society is just too entrenched on either side for anything to happen, those with the money will flee, those blinded by partisan politics will stay along with those too poor to move.

We will more than likely see the US eat itself alive int he next 60 years unless your society makes a big change.

You know, I love how everyone keeps predicting a dystopian video game doom-and-gloom scenario when the US as a whole has been through far worse. Just look at the Great Depression. We survived that, recovered from it and thrived into world super-power-dom.

America has problems, but they are not impossible to deal with. The issue is that not enough people are personally affected to be politically involved. Even with Obama the total vote was well under 50% of potential voters. That's more than half the country that simply didn't vote. Once things get bad enough to affect all Americans, that's when you'll see the true reformers like FDR coming into politics. Sucks that the population is lazy and stupid enough to have to wait until that point, but that's our cycle. We cry, bitch and moan until things get so bad the the old, corrupt ways are broken and we galvanize behind real leaders. It'll suck hard for a while, but America will survive.

That and remember that if America goes economically, we're taking a good chunk of the world with us.

 

[woolfe9999]

You do know that there were more than a million more active U.S. military at the time don't you? We had something you might not be old enough to remember called the Red Menace to worry about. Besides counting the size of the military at that time, the rest of the federal government was much smaller per capita than it is today.

Why would you discount military personnel from the equation? It's funny, because one of Hedge's points is that the right discounts military spending as if it wasn't government spending at all...

 

[boochi]

Why would you discount military personnel from the equation? It's funny, because one of Hedge's points is that the right discounts military spending as if it wasn't government spending at all...

In 1960 we had great military personnel numbers but the cost of maintaining them was very low. Now we have a much smaller military and the cost of maintaining them is very high. I was taking issue with the op's position that more people were employed by the federal government without taking into account how they were employed. Unlike most Republicans, I do favor drastic cuts in spending across the board including in the military.