Curious.. lets remove the term "thought police" from this.. would anyone have a problem if the Chinese govt had officials on Metas platforms with power to censor or misinform the masses? Or do different rules apply depending on who the actor is? As a publicly traded company, would transparency be required for the benefit of shareholders or if demanded by them?
That is so dumb as to be mind boggling. I am THE THOUGHT POLICE ON MY PROPERTY. i don’t owe amenx or anyone else a god damn thing including any right to OPPOSE my thoughts on my property. Facebook is the thought police on their OWNED PROPERTY. You come on their property you do as they say. Don’t like it then don’t come on the property. Facebook as the property owner owes you nothing. Jesus.
By the very definition every property owner is the thought police on their own property. What the hell are we even talking about?
Be specific. "My property" does not necessarily equate to shareholder property. See previous post.
Israel doesn’t have that power here so I’m not sure what comparison you’re trying to draw.
Your own article very clearly states they are requests and Facebook does not honor all of them.
You don’t HAVE to keep making up new excuses you know.
It’s actually worse than that as his stance is you would need to pay money out of your own pocket to broadcast whatever some nut came to say on your property.
Good lord. By the way, Facebook could honor every Israeli government request on their own property. It is their DAMN RIGHT. They could also tell Israel government to pound sand on every request. Israel could say Facebook is banned in Israel if their laws and government allows of course but that has NOTHING to do with Facebook controlling their private property. The US is not Israel. 🙄
It is not hard.
The comparison I'm trying to draw is that some ppl are influenced in their position depending on who the actors are. Yet they argue as if thats not the case to maintain a semblance of integrity in their argument. Like peeps who go apeshit over Russian atrocities in Ukraine but remain silent at other unfolding genocides because of deeply entrenched, beliefs (mostly from distorted media and/or social platforms) that Israel is a US ally and are thus the "good guys". And that serves as their main motivator in such arguments despite never admitting to it. Their main impetus is to discredit whomever is on the wrong side of their sympathies and can show up in threads like this when one or more of them serve as echo chambers to one another. Usually wont happen in the Israel war thread because they have no echo chamber there that they can feel comfortable in.
None of that has anything to do with the first amendment. I tried to give you benefit of doubt but in ignore you go. Your goal posts move continents not just fields.
There is a shitload of criticism of Israel in that thread. What are you talking about?
"Thought police" is entirely the wrong term. Nobody in "the media or social platforms" has any power to dictate your thoughts. Unlike the government - which can cart you off to a camp if it believes you are thinking the wrong thoughts.
The "media and social platforms" can constrain your capacity to express your thoughts, and communicate them to others though, certainly. But that's just an inevitable consequence of having a system of private property rights.
Do you have any method to make such property rights consistent with a completely free capacity to express and communicate views? Because to me there seems to be an unavoidable conflict there. You can have one or the other - capitalism or "absolute" free speech. Which one are you going with?
Seems Human Rights Watch agrees with me in their analysis of Meta's conduct and selective censorship. Even Meta itself seemed concerned with the allegations.
In response to years of digital and human rights organizations calling for an independent review of Meta’s content moderation policies and a 2021 recommendation from Meta’s Oversight Board—an external body created by Meta to appeal content moderation decisions and to provide non-binding policy guidance—Meta commissioned Business for Social Responsibility (BSR), an independent entity, to investigate whether Facebook had applied its content moderation in Arabic and Hebrew, including its use of automation, without bias. In September 2022, BSR published “Human Rights Due Diligence of Meta’s Impacts in Israel and Palestine in May 2021,” which found that Meta’s actions “appear to have had an adverse human rights impact…on the rights of Palestinian users to freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, political participation, and non-discrimination, and therefore on the ability of Palestinians to share information and insights about their experiences as they occurred.”...
Read full report:
www.hrw.org
In response to years of digital and human rights organizations calling for an independent review of Meta’s content moderation policies and a 2021 recommendation from Meta’s Oversight Board—an external body created by Meta to appeal content moderation decisions and to provide non-binding policy guidance—Meta commissioned Business for Social Responsibility (BSR), an independent entity, to investigate whether Facebook had applied its content moderation in Arabic and Hebrew, including its use of automation, without bias. In September 2022, BSR published “Human Rights Due Diligence of Meta’s Impacts in Israel and Palestine in May 2021,” which found that Meta’s actions “appear to have had an adverse human rights impact…on the rights of Palestinian users to freedom of expression, freedom of assembly, political participation, and non-discrimination, and therefore on the ability of Palestinians to share information and insights about their experiences as they occurred.”...
Read full report:
Meta’s Broken Promises
The 51-page report, “Meta’s Broken Promises: Systemic Censorship of Palestine Content on Instagram and Facebook,” documents a pattern of undue removal and suppression of protected speech including peaceful expression in support of Palestine and public debate about Palestinian human rights. Human...
Yes, perhaps thought police is the wrong term. Rather censorship and selectively picking which sides are allowed or censored on the topic of the Middle east. Methods? Well if Meta seemed "open" to have independent bodies to investigate such claims, lets go with that. Let them update their earlier findings with the Gaza conflict. Are they compelled to? No. Are they concerned? Maybe. Could it affect their image and overall cred? Yes. Should shareholders also be concerned? I think so.
Pens1566
Lifer
- Oct 11, 2005
- 13,726
- 11,348
- 136
This non-sequiter that some peeps were mis-attributing to me:
and this
When it was more a case of business ethics, brand image and credibility of a large publicly traded company that 'theoretically' is held accountable by shareholders. A company whose value is intrinsiclly linked to a premise of freedom of expression without knee-capping one side vs another in large political debates or events involving war crimes, genocide and the lives of many, many ppl at risk due to misinformation.
And what do you know, HRW voiced similar concerns. Hope you or any others who jumped onboard one persons ill conceived argument had a chance peek at their report.
Last edited:
Well done Harvard. Thought policing of academia has no place in free and democratic societies.
Harvard rejects Trump demands, gets hit by $2.3 billion funding freeze
April 14 (Reuters) - Harvard on Monday rejected numerous demands from the Trump administration that it said would cede control of the school to a conservative government that portrays universities as dangerously leftist.
Within hours of Harvard taking its stand, the administration of President Donald Trump announced it was freezing $2.3 billion in federal funding to the school.
The funding freeze comes after the Trump administration said last month it was reviewing $9 billion in federal contracts and grants to Harvard as part of a crackdown on what it says is antisemitism that erupted on college campuses during pro-Palestinian protests in the past 18 months...
Supreme Court links academic freedom with First Amendment
firstamendment.mtsu.edu
Harvard rejects Trump demands, gets hit by $2.3 billion funding freeze
April 14 (Reuters) - Harvard on Monday rejected numerous demands from the Trump administration that it said would cede control of the school to a conservative government that portrays universities as dangerously leftist.
Within hours of Harvard taking its stand, the administration of President Donald Trump announced it was freezing $2.3 billion in federal funding to the school.
The funding freeze comes after the Trump administration said last month it was reviewing $9 billion in federal contracts and grants to Harvard as part of a crackdown on what it says is antisemitism that erupted on college campuses during pro-Palestinian protests in the past 18 months...
Supreme Court links academic freedom with First Amendment
Academic Freedom
Academic freedom is a First Amendment principle that teachers, students and educational institutions should be able to pursue knowledge without government interference.
firstamendment.mtsu.edu
I'm proud of Harvard for standing up to this but really the demands were so incredibly extreme and authoritarian they almost had no choice as it would have led to the destruction of the university.Well done Harvard. Thought policing of academia has no place in free and democratic societies.
Harvard rejects Trump demands, gets hit by $2.3 billion funding freeze
April 14 (Reuters) - Harvard on Monday rejected numerous demands from the Trump administration that it said would cede control of the school to a conservative government that portrays universities as dangerously leftist.
Within hours of Harvard taking its stand, the administration of President Donald Trump announced it was freezing $2.3 billion in federal funding to the school.
The funding freeze comes after the Trump administration said last month it was reviewing $9 billion in federal contracts and grants to Harvard as part of a crackdown on what it says is antisemitism that erupted on college campuses during pro-Palestinian protests in the past 18 months...
Supreme Court links academic freedom with First Amendment
Academic Freedom
Academic freedom is a First Amendment principle that teachers, students and educational institutions should be able to pursue knowledge without government interference.
Trump was literally demanding to take control of the student body in order to force it to be more ideologically friendly to the current regime.
2019 Trump EO on "Improving Free Inquiry, Transparency, and Accountability at Colleges and Universities". Shocking 180 turn 5 years later.
Executive Order on Improving Free Inquiry, Transparency, and Accountability at Colleges and Universities
It is the policy of the Federal Government to:
(a) encourage institutions to foster environments that promote open, intellectually engaging, and diverse debate, including through compliance with the First Amendment for public institutions and compliance with stated institutional policies regarding freedom of speech for private institutions...
Sec. 3. Improving Free Inquiry on Campus. (a) To advance the policy described in subsection 2(a) of this order, the heads of covered agencies shall, in coordination with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, take appropriate steps, in a manner consistent with applicable law, including the First Amendment, to ensure institutions that receive Federal research or education grants promote free inquiry, including through compliance with all applicable Federal laws, regulations, and policies.
Executive Order on Improving Free Inquiry, Transparency, and Accountability at Colleges and Universities
It is the policy of the Federal Government to:
(a) encourage institutions to foster environments that promote open, intellectually engaging, and diverse debate, including through compliance with the First Amendment for public institutions and compliance with stated institutional policies regarding freedom of speech for private institutions...
Sec. 3. Improving Free Inquiry on Campus. (a) To advance the policy described in subsection 2(a) of this order, the heads of covered agencies shall, in coordination with the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, take appropriate steps, in a manner consistent with applicable law, including the First Amendment, to ensure institutions that receive Federal research or education grants promote free inquiry, including through compliance with all applicable Federal laws, regulations, and policies.
Trumps remarks at the signing of the above EO:
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Please be seated. I am truly delighted to welcome so many impressive young Americans to the White House. This is a very exciting day. What we’re doing is very important. And we’re here to take historic action to defend American students and American values. They’ve been under siege.
In a few moments, I will be signing an executive order to protect free speech on college campuses. Just the thought of it sounds good. We’re grateful — (applause). It’s true...
Most importantly, let me thank all of the college students and recent graduates here with me on stage. Incredible young people. These courageous Americans have stood up for [to] the forces of political indoctrinations — and they really stood up to it, too, like very few people have been able to; censorship; and coercion.
You refused to be silenced by powerful institutions and closed-minded critics, of which there are many. You faced down intimidation, pressure and abuse. You did it because you love your country and you believe in truth, justice, and freedom. And I want to thank you all, everybody in the room, including a lot of folks in the audience...
You’ve fought bravely for your rights and now you have a President who is also fighting for you. I’m with you all the way. Okay? All right? (Applause.)
In America, the very heart of the university’s mission is preparing students for life as citizens in a free society. But even as universities have received billions and billions of dollars from taxpayers, many have become increasingly hostile to free speech and to the First Amendment. You see it all the time...
Under the guise of “speech codes” and “safe spaces” and “trigger warnings,” these universities have tried to restrict free thought, impose total conformity, and shut down the voices of great young Americans like those here today. These are great people.
All of that changes starting right now. We’re dealing with billions and billions and billions of dollars. (Applause.) Taxpayer dollars should not subsidize anti-First Amendment institutions. And that’s exactly what they are: anti-First Amendment. Universities that want taxpayer dollars should promote free speech, not silence free speech. (Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Please be seated. I am truly delighted to welcome so many impressive young Americans to the White House. This is a very exciting day. What we’re doing is very important. And we’re here to take historic action to defend American students and American values. They’ve been under siege.
In a few moments, I will be signing an executive order to protect free speech on college campuses. Just the thought of it sounds good. We’re grateful — (applause). It’s true...
Most importantly, let me thank all of the college students and recent graduates here with me on stage. Incredible young people. These courageous Americans have stood up for [to] the forces of political indoctrinations — and they really stood up to it, too, like very few people have been able to; censorship; and coercion.
You refused to be silenced by powerful institutions and closed-minded critics, of which there are many. You faced down intimidation, pressure and abuse. You did it because you love your country and you believe in truth, justice, and freedom. And I want to thank you all, everybody in the room, including a lot of folks in the audience...
You’ve fought bravely for your rights and now you have a President who is also fighting for you. I’m with you all the way. Okay? All right? (Applause.)
In America, the very heart of the university’s mission is preparing students for life as citizens in a free society. But even as universities have received billions and billions of dollars from taxpayers, many have become increasingly hostile to free speech and to the First Amendment. You see it all the time...
Under the guise of “speech codes” and “safe spaces” and “trigger warnings,” these universities have tried to restrict free thought, impose total conformity, and shut down the voices of great young Americans like those here today. These are great people.
All of that changes starting right now. We’re dealing with billions and billions and billions of dollars. (Applause.) Taxpayer dollars should not subsidize anti-First Amendment institutions. And that’s exactly what they are: anti-First Amendment. Universities that want taxpayer dollars should promote free speech, not silence free speech. (Applause.)
- Jun 30, 2003
- 33,275
- 12,838
- 136
So, a bunch of bullshit bloviating by our racist and rapist in chief?Trumps remarks at the signing of the above EO:
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Please be seated. I am truly delighted to welcome so many impressive young Americans to the White House. This is a very exciting day. What we’re doing is very important. And we’re here to take historic action to defend American students and American values. They’ve been under siege.
In a few moments, I will be signing an executive order to protect free speech on college campuses. Just the thought of it sounds good. We’re grateful — (applause). It’s true...
Most importantly, let me thank all of the college students and recent graduates here with me on stage. Incredible young people. These courageous Americans have stood up for [to] the forces of political indoctrinations — and they really stood up to it, too, like very few people have been able to; censorship; and coercion.
You refused to be silenced by powerful institutions and closed-minded critics, of which there are many. You faced down intimidation, pressure and abuse. You did it because you love your country and you believe in truth, justice, and freedom. And I want to thank you all, everybody in the room, including a lot of folks in the audience...
You’ve fought bravely for your rights and now you have a President who is also fighting for you. I’m with you all the way. Okay? All right? (Applause.)
In America, the very heart of the university’s mission is preparing students for life as citizens in a free society. But even as universities have received billions and billions of dollars from taxpayers, many have become increasingly hostile to free speech and to the First Amendment. You see it all the time...
Under the guise of “speech codes” and “safe spaces” and “trigger warnings,” these universities have tried to restrict free thought, impose total conformity, and shut down the voices of great young Americans like those here today. These are great people.
All of that changes starting right now. We’re dealing with billions and billions and billions of dollars. (Applause.) Taxpayer dollars should not subsidize anti-First Amendment institutions. And that’s exactly what they are: anti-First Amendment. Universities that want taxpayer dollars should promote free speech, not silence free speech. (Applause.)
Yeah, seems that is indeed the implication - if they choose to make use of that power.
As it stands it seems they could pretty much end democracy tomorrow, and the only things stopping them are whatever moral scruples they still retain, plus, I guess, fear of a violent response outside the political/legal system.
A Loophole That Would Swallow the Constitution
If Donald Trump can disappear people to El Salvador without due process, he can do anything.
...I mean, even if they don't choose to start systematically rounding up Democrats and other opponants and sending them off for rendition, it's got to be having a chilling effect on people's willingness to speak in opposition to them?
Just surprised he didn't pick Russia as the site for his off-shored concentration camps.
Just surprised he didn't pick Russia as the site for his off-shored concentration camps.
FelixDeCat
Lifer
- Aug 4, 2000
- 30,989
- 2,680
- 126
Well, you gotta admit, he has a point. The days of "touchy, feely, we are sensitive to the smallest of the smallest minority and craziest ideas of diversity to point of absurdity" are over.
Thank goodness.
Ah yes, imposing free thought by banning criticism of Israel.
Once again conservatives are projecting.
Seems to me they are only just beginning. Being snatched off the street and sent to a concentration camp for saying negative things about Israeli policies seems an order-of-magnitude worse than anything we've seen so far.
Pretty funny how the ‘free speech’ folks turned out to love the government stomping on free speech.
It’s almost as if you never valued it to begin with! It’s just like how you claimed to hate government deficits and then cheered on people causing the deficit to explode.
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