Those that like their alcohol and know a bit about science...

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: ImDonly1
Pharmacy schools do not require a bachelore's for admittance you can apply after doing 2 years of college and don't have to complete the bachelor's, just like med school. Then its 4 years of pharm school (the last one is like a intern kinda thing, less text book stuff).

For med school you do not need a bachelor's either.

Some pharmacy schools have guaranteed placement into their school if you enroll into a program which requires a bachelor's. The 2 years route is a gamble and you could not be admitted.

As for the guy who said she doesn't know anything... id like to see him in pharmacy school...
Pharmacy is the study of the effects of drugs on the body so if anything Pharmacy is more useful on this subject than Med school...

I never said she didnt know anything, i was just placing the argument into context. Im sure she is as smart as the neighborhood chiropractor.

I would like you to show me stats for med school admittance in the absence of a bachelors. I personally know two people who went to pharm school with no bachelors, and one that went to chiropractic school. Also, you can do the pharm"D" in two and "extra clincal" work to total 3 years. Two years in college, 3 in pharm school. That is not even a masters.

 

[TheRyuu]

Well, I know that if you should overdose on acetaminophen (Tylenol) that the standard treatment (AFAIK, and I'm no doctor) and I think as long as not too much was taken, would be to load them up on anti-oxidants such as Vit C+E, Melatonin (5-6mg's) among other liver enhancing drugs (same goes for HBV (and maybe HAV))

In hope, I guess, that because acetaminophen basically makes a whole bunch of free radicals in the liver that all the anti-oxidants will help the body naturally fight it off.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: wizboy11
Well, I know that if you should overdose on acetaminophen (Tylenol) that the standard treatment (AFAIK, and I'm no doctor) and I think as long as not too much was taken, would be to load them up on anti-oxidants such as Vit C+E, Melatonin (5-6mg's) among other liver enhancing drugs (same goes for HBV (and maybe HAV))

In hope, I guess, that because acetaminophen basically makes a whole bunch of free radicals in the liver that all the anti-oxidants will help the body naturally fight it off.

Yup they even give as much as 50 GRAMS of vitamin c in the bloodstream to combat the ill effects, it rarly helps though, even worse are the paracetamol overdoses, you have twoo weeks to live and there is nothing anyone can do to save you, it will be extremely painful and no pain killer in the world will help.

So if you are thinking about offing yourself, don't be stupid and go with pills, blow your head off instead.

I'm sorry if i may seem a bit harsh but i'm already a tad pissed by other things, not anything anyone here has done so my apologies if i'm less than nice to anyone. 🙂

 

[SVT Cobra]

FFS NO! Stop trying to get over your hangovers...if your methods worked people would have marketed them.

I remember the last thread about drinking a cup of water with every beer.


And, homerclees337 stop being a douche bag.

 

[Slackware]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
FFS NO! Stop trying to get over your hangovers...if your methods worked people would have marketed them.

I remember the last thread about drinking a cup of water with every beer.


And, homerclees337 stop being a douche bag.

Either you are daft or just plain stupid but the thing is that ethyl alcohol is a toxin and you are basically saying "give up, nothing you can do" but i'm saying you are wrong, i have not been hung over in 12 years using that very method and scientifically, it does make very much sense, does it not?

The only douche i have seen in this thread is you, you waltz in here and say "no, nothing works, and i know because i'm a ......" fill in the blank yourself, i would fill it with dumbass but i leave your own ignorance to fend for yourself.

 

[vi edit]

vi_edit's wife here:

In regards to pharmacy education:

I'm sorry that my 7 years of direct pharmacology schooling plus another advanced residency (being trained with MD's) is not up to your standards. All of the 94 pharmacy schools in the US have only PharmD programs and the 5-year BS Pharm no longer exists.

I currently spend my days caring for patients and educating your future doctor on the appropriate use of medications. In fact, many of my colleagues also spend their time in the same manner. The current practice of medicine is an interdisciplinary one, and many doctors (regardless of experience) rely on us as much as we rely on them.

You appear to have a bad taste in your mouth regarding the profession of pharmacy. That's unfortunate.


As far as the alcohol intake issue is concerned:
Acute alcohol intoxication can lead to temporary damage to the liver and/or pancreas. You feel like a$$ due to the intermediate metabolites accumulating, waiting their turn with the rate-limiting enzymatic process to occur. These metabolites are toxic throughout the body, and all you can do is bide your time and keep hydrated. If your liver is forced to undergo this process extensively and repeatedly, the damage is no longer temporary. If this is your lifestyle choice, nothing you take can prevent the chronic assault to the liver.

Acute neuro symptoms are often due to extremely high alcohol levels causing hyponatremia. If severe enough (and I've seen this), seizures may result.

In terms of vitamins, the B-vitamins may be acutely required because they are used to make the co-factors that the enzymes degrading the alcohol need to function. Chronic alcohol abuse will actually deplete the body's stores of these vitamins leading to other symptoms, such as Werneke's encephalopathy with thiamine deficiency. Vitamin C isn't really indicated for therapeutic uses other than making cysteine bonds for collagen production in wound healing. Vitamin A is a fat-soluble vitamin that the body usually has large stores of, and in no way affects alcohol metabolism. In fact, vitamin A is one of the few vitamins that can be toxic in excess.

Some people like the product "Chasers" to ward off a hangover. This product contains vegetable carbonate (AKA activated charcoal) and calcium carbonate (Tums). It's mechanism of action is to bind to the alcohol that remains in the GI tract and prevents it's absorption. Taking it before alcohol intake will to decrease your buzz because it won't let you absorb (like shooting blanks).

Hope this clears a few things up for people

 

[msparish]

homercles337, you do realize that pharmacists generally know much more about drugs and their effects than someone with an M.D., right? In large hospitals, doctors diagnose, and then often ask for medicine suggestions from a clinical pharmacist...especially for difficult patients. vi_edits wife is very qualified to give an answer to this question. In conclusion:

clinical pharmacist's knowledge of drugs > MD's knowledge of drugs

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Just something I have been thinking about, esp it's what dr's do for someone with the possibility of ingesting something that will cause possible liver damage.

In alcoholics, Vit. A and pretty much the rest of the anti-oxidants get wiped out which is the reason leading to the liver 'oxidizing' and dying.

Nothing formal, just thoughts.

Å

Um, no, alcohol does wipe out Vit. A merely because it dissolves fat, that has NOTHING to do with the ill effects of the liver caused by ethyl alcohol though, it's just hard for your liver to break the bonds and break it down to be discarded, not really different from any other ethylated compounds and methylated compounds are even worse.

Basically it won't do shiat to disrupt your vitamin balance, not even retinol will be severely affected by a binge (most of the available retinol is not stored in the liver).

If you want to help your body recovering from a binge, sure, antioxidants is a great start (for entirely different reasons, nemely that alcohol creates higher oxidization levels throughout the muscle tissue (as does ANY relaxant)), i'd say 400mg of AcetylCystein and a couple of grams of ascorbic acid would help, along with loads of water and fast carbs.

Cysteine is a very potent antioxidant (you know why chickensoup is a big thing to give to people with a cold, chicken is extremely high in cysteine) and AcetylCysteine is a better form if nog ingested with other amino acids, it's more bio active on it's own in it's acetylated form than in it's regular form.

Ascorbic acid or vitamin c, well, it's water soluble and alcohol is a diuretic so that is mostly replacement.

My after hours cocktail is 3 grams of Ascorbic acid and 400mg of AcetylCysteine along with at least half a liter of water before going to bed and then half a liter in a bottle that i drink throughout the night and morning.

So stick to the water soluble compounds, don't overdose on fat soluble vitamins when your liver has a hard time ahead, they are even deadly at high enough dose and what kills you is liver failure.

please don't comment if you have no biological knowledge esp. if you are so ignorant on what alcohol does in the body. No one was talking about recovering from a binge here.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
FFS NO! Stop trying to get over your hangovers...if your methods worked people would have marketed them.

I remember the last thread about drinking a cup of water with every beer.


And, homerclees337 stop being a douche bag.

Either you are daft or just plain stupid but the thing is that ethyl alcohol is a toxin and you are basically saying "give up, nothing you can do" but i'm saying you are wrong, i have not been hung over in 12 years using that very method and scientifically, it does make very much sense, does it not?

The only douche i have seen in this thread is you, you waltz in here and say "no, nothing works, and i know because i'm a ......" fill in the blank yourself, i would fill it with dumbass but i leave your own ignorance to fend for yourself.

Sure buddy.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
I showed my wife this post. She slammed her against the wall and said "make the pain stop".

She's a clinical pharmacist who has been working with several *hardcore* alcoholics that have been in the ICU this past week.

In short...no it doesn't work that way.

clinical pharmacist <> understanding *hardcore* alcoholics. Also usually the pharmacist isn't involved with seeing the patients...maybe medicine is done differently in Palm Beach County though.

 

[nakedfrog]

Milk thistle is supposed to be good for your liver.

 

[alkemyst]

also I don't know who's right or wrong about pharmacy today....but in 1993 I was accepted to UM and UF's pharmacy schools prior to my AA with about 1 term of classes I would need (and I'd have my AA at that time)...

I could of gone to college for 3 years, 4years, or 5 years for various degrees in Pharmacy.

Still the courses leading up to that end are hardly non-challenging. Most Organic and Bio-Chem classes are beyond the average student...throw in calc II and another higher level math or two, and physics, etc...I also took a lot of anatomy classes.

let's stay on topic here though...if you don't understand drinking or married some chick out banging young MD's on her 'night shift'...don't post.

 

[Doboji]

I don't think you could absorb the anti-oxidants fast enough to help much...

 

[KLin]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
also I don't know who's right or wrong about pharmacy today....but in 1993 I was accepted to UM and UF's pharmacy schools prior to my AA with about 1 term of classes I would need (and I'd have my AA at that time)...

I could of gone to college for 3 years, 4years, or 5 years for various degrees in Pharmacy.

Still the courses leading up to that end are hardly non-challenging. Most Organic and Bio-Chem classes are beyond the average student...throw in calc II and another higher level math or two, and physics, etc...I also took a lot of anatomy classes.

let's stay on topic here though...if you don't understand drinking or married some chick out banging young MD's on her 'night shift'...don't post.

Uh.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: wizboy11
Well, I know that if you should overdose on acetaminophen (Tylenol) that the standard treatment (AFAIK, and I'm no doctor) and I think as long as not too much was taken, would be to load them up on anti-oxidants such as Vit C+E, Melatonin (5-6mg's) among other liver enhancing drugs (same goes for HBV (and maybe HAV))

In hope, I guess, that because acetaminophen basically makes a whole bunch of free radicals in the liver that all the anti-oxidants will help the body naturally fight it off.

Yup they even give as much as 50 GRAMS of vitamin c in the bloodstream to combat the ill effects, it rarly helps though, even worse are the paracetamol overdoses, you have twoo weeks to live and there is nothing anyone can do to save you, it will be extremely painful and no pain killer in the world will help.

So if you are thinking about offing yourself, don't be stupid and go with pills, blow your head off instead.

I'm sorry if i may seem a bit harsh but i'm already a tad pissed by other things, not anything anyone here has done so my apologies if i'm less than nice to anyone. 🙂

again off topic...not everyone that OD's on tylenol is intending to kill themselves. Tylenol/acetaminophen is a pretty dangerous OTC. I personally think if it were a new drug on the market, there is no way it would get to be OTC.

going on other overdoses you went off-topic to your own off-topic.

Perhaps Ritalin is up your alley.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: wizboy11
Well, I know that if you should overdose on acetaminophen (Tylenol) that the standard treatment (AFAIK, and I'm no doctor) and I think as long as not too much was taken, would be to load them up on anti-oxidants such as Vit C+E, Melatonin (5-6mg's) among other liver enhancing drugs (same goes for HBV (and maybe HAV))

In hope, I guess, that because acetaminophen basically makes a whole bunch of free radicals in the liver that all the anti-oxidants will help the body naturally fight it off.

Yup they even give as much as 50 GRAMS of vitamin c in the bloodstream to combat the ill effects, it rarly helps though, even worse are the paracetamol overdoses, you have twoo weeks to live and there is nothing anyone can do to save you, it will be extremely painful and no pain killer in the world will help.

So if you are thinking about offing yourself, don't be stupid and go with pills, blow your head off instead.

I'm sorry if i may seem a bit harsh but i'm already a tad pissed by other things, not anything anyone here has done so my apologies if i'm less than nice to anyone. 🙂

again off topic...not everyone that OD's on tylenol is intending to kill themselves. Tylenol/acetaminophen is a pretty dangerous OTC. I personally think if it were a new drug on the market, there is no way it would get to be OTC.

going on other overdoses you went off-topic to your own off-topic.

Perhaps Ritalin is up your alley.

..wasen't Tylenol once a prescription drug?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

they will keep it from rusting

 

[Fayd]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Slackware

Originally posted by: wizboy11
Well, I know that if you should overdose on acetaminophen (Tylenol) that the standard treatment (AFAIK, and I'm no doctor) and I think as long as not too much was taken, would be to load them up on anti-oxidants such as Vit C+E, Melatonin (5-6mg's) among other liver enhancing drugs (same goes for HBV (and maybe HAV))

In hope, I guess, that because acetaminophen basically makes a whole bunch of free radicals in the liver that all the anti-oxidants will help the body naturally fight it off.

Yup they even give as much as 50 GRAMS of vitamin c in the bloodstream to combat the ill effects, it rarly helps though, even worse are the paracetamol overdoses, you have twoo weeks to live and there is nothing anyone can do to save you, it will be extremely painful and no pain killer in the world will help.

So if you are thinking about offing yourself, don't be stupid and go with pills, blow your head off instead.

I'm sorry if i may seem a bit harsh but i'm already a tad pissed by other things, not anything anyone here has done so my apologies if i'm less than nice to anyone. 🙂

again off topic...not everyone that OD's on tylenol is intending to kill themselves. Tylenol/acetaminophen is a pretty dangerous OTC. I personally think if it were a new drug on the market, there is no way it would get to be OTC.

going on other overdoses you went off-topic to your own off-topic.

Perhaps Ritalin is up your alley.

if you OD on tylenol, you're pretty dumb to begin with...

you'd have to take many times the recommended dosage to go into dangerous territory...