Those Poor, Abused TSA Workers....

[Zorba]

As I wrote, it's mighty easy for people to claim lofty moral principles when it's not their own livelihood on the line.

When you get old enough to take a college course, I recommend Business and/or Engineering Ethics.

 

[PrinceofWands]

So you're blaming the worker bees for following the clear directions of their superiors. And you want TSA worders to do what, exactly? Refuse to follow those directions, and as a consequence get fired? Is this REALLY how you expect a rational TSA worker to behave? Is this how YOU would behave if YOU were a TSA worker and your family depended on your job to survive? Really?

100% exactly the way it is. Were you by chance a lawyer for the nazis? Cause your arguments are the same, and just as invalid now as then.

I repeatedly faced captains mast in the navy for refusing orders I found immoral (and FAR less so than the crap being pulled now). TSA workers can do the same and face fewer consequences.

It's a fallacy to suggest that this is the ONLY option available to TSA workers...there ARE other jobs out there, even in this economy. However, if I were with the TSA and unable to find any other position I would still watch my family starve to death before violating the rights of others.

Anyone who doesn't is a bad human being.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I don't claim to know what the best approach to airport security is. Maybe - as you say - bomb sniffers are all that's needed. What I do know, though, is that the day after the first airliner is brought down by a person who made it through security with explosives without being body-scanned or patted down - and it WILL happen - and the right-wing macho types will be second-guessing the Obama administration's approach to airport security.

And THAT excuses fascism how exactly?

 

[Hacp]

Unions AGAIN. How did I know? How did I know?

 

[Zebo]

So you're blaming the worker bees for following the clear directions of their superiors. And you want TSA worders to do what, exactly? Refuse to follow those directions, and as a consequence get fired? Is this REALLY how you expect a rational TSA worker to behave? Is this how YOU would behave if YOU were a TSA worker and your family depended on your job to survive? Really?

Only following orders eh?

 

[Darwin333]

1) You're lying.

How would you know how hungry I have been? Furthermore, I actually have morals and there is some stuff I just wouldn't do regardless if it is for money or not.

I take it there is absolutely no limit to what you would do for money as long as the government told you it was ok?

2) You mischaracaterize TSA pat-downs based on rare, anecdotal stories, and pretend that this is how TSA workers view their own behavior.

Grabbing people in places they don't want to be grabbed for no apparent reason, regardless of what you want to call it my morals would not allow me to do it. That goes double for frisking a screaming kid (doesn't matter where I am touching him/her) that is screaming because he doesn't want some stranger touching all over him.

 

[Darwin333]

I don't claim to know what the best approach to airport security is. Maybe - as you say - bomb sniffers are all that's needed. What I do know, though, is that the day after the first airliner is brought down by a person who made it through security with explosives without being body-scanned or patted down - and it WILL happen - and the right-wing macho types will be second-guessing the Obama administration's approach to airport security.

I bet the exact same argument was used when we rounded up all the Japanese-Americans during WWII.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That's easy to fix..........don't fly.

 

[IBMer]

People keep characterizing this as molesting. That's like saying a prostate exam is molesting from a doctor is molesting. There is a choice, molestation dictates there is no choice, its unwanted touching. You don't want to be pat down, then don't fly. You are making a choice.

 

[drebo]

People keep characterizing this as molesting. That's like saying a prostate exam is molesting from a doctor is molesting. There is a choice, molestation dictates there is no choice, its unwanted touching. You don't want to be pat down, then don't fly. You are making a choice.

A choice between molestation and a $10,000 fine for leaving an airport is not really a choice, is it?

That's like a rapist telling his victim "say yes or I'll kill you" and then claiming the sex was consentual. Intimidation does not yield a legal consent.

 

[drebo]

First of all, you're wrong: TSA personnel do NOT have the right to strike. Under a very recent FLRA ruling, TSA personnel DO have a right to union representation, but

http://www.laborrelationscounsel.co...presentation-but-not-to-collectively-bargain/



You are also wrong that refusing to follow orders because it offends one's morality offers protection from being fired. I think anyone so fired would have an uphill legal battle to wage, and meanwhile their family would suffer enormously. As I wrote, it's mighty easy for people to claim lofty moral principles when it's not their own livelihood on the line.

Finally, as to your claim that TSA agents are on power trips: Where's your objective evidence to back up that assertion? Do you have the results of surveys of TSA agents?

Tell you what: For those of you who think TSA agents should just refuse to operate body scanners and perform patdowns, and who pooh-pooh the job risks the TSA agents would face, why don't you all get together and put your money where your mouth is: Indemnify TSA agents against loss by putting your OWN financial well-being at risk. Each one of you promise - in a written contract signed by you and witnessed by a notary public that - should TSA agents be fired or given unpaid leave pursuant to refusing to engage in body scans or pat-downs - to pay 10% of your own yearly family incomes into a fund that will support fired TSA agents, each and every year for as long as it takes the fired agents to pursue their legal actions and/or to find jobs that pay comparable salaries.

Come on, all you morally-upright heroes, let's see you put your own financial security on the line in the fight against tyranny.

Frankly, I don't think any of you have the guts.

Any TSA agent has the same right to refuse to obey their superiors on moral grounds that every other employee has. To imply otherwise is ludicrous.

To assert that they should be rewarded for standing up for personal rights and making a common sense decision is ridiculous. They should be lauded, sure. They should be praised for making the right call. Rewarded? Not unless they are risking their life for it.

My claim that TSA agents are on a power trip is backed up by the fact that NOT ONE of them has refused or spoken out against these policies. That can mean one of two things: power trip or brainwashing. I'd prefer to think that the government doesn't employ brainwashing, so I will be willfully ignorant in this case and assume that it is the choice of the TSA workers to perform illegal searches. As explained earlier, that they do not stand up to tyranny makes them a conspirator and subjects them to the same ridicule as those who made the policies. A hired assassin is just as guilty as the person who hired him. This is no different.

You may be OK with tyranny, and for that you should be thrown in prison. I, for one, do not welcome our new tyrannical overlords.

By the way, you still have not answered my question: When was the last commercial airplane that was destroyed by a bomb?

 

[soulcougher73]

Im going to laugh when people get blown up in flight because they didnt want someones private areas inspected where the bomber hid the bomb.

 

[drebo]

That's easy to fix..........don't fly.

And what happens when they start mandating that your car be searched every 50 miles on an interstate? Or that you must be strip searched before you leave your house? Or that you are no longer allowed to purchase, own, or use firearms? Or that you are no longer allowed to talk about dissention? Or that speaking out against the government is a death sentence?

It's a slippery slope, but that is the way we are headed if we do not oppose government abuses of power.

A person who willingly gives up his liberties for the illusion of safety deserves neither liberty nor safety, and will, in the end, have neither.

 

[drebo]

Im going to laugh when people get blown up in flight because they didnt want someones private areas inspected where the bomber hid the bomb.

This has never happened in 100 years of commercial aviation. What makes you think it will happen now?

Seriously, you're a hell of a lot more likely to be killed driving your car to work than in an airplane.

Have any facts what-so-ever to back up your assertion that there is a serious risk to bodily harm from other passengers while flying?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

And what happens when they start mandating that your car be searched every 50 miles on an interstate? Or that you must be strip searched before you leave your house? Or that you are no longer allowed to purchase, own, or use firearms? Or that you are no longer allowed to talk about dissention? Or that speaking out against the government is a death sentence?

It's a slippery slope, but that is the way we are headed if we do not oppose government abuses of power.

A person who willingly gives up his liberties for the illusion of safety deserves neither liberty nor safety, and will, in the end, have neither.

You need to get a new tin foil beanie.

 

[nick1985]

I cant believe that lefties that were so vehemently against the patriot act are in favor of this.

That blows my god damn mind.

 

[Darwin333]

People keep characterizing this as molesting. That's like saying a prostate exam is molesting from a doctor is molesting. There is a choice, molestation dictates there is no choice, its unwanted touching. You don't want to be pat down, then don't fly. You are making a choice.

When I am in the doctors office I can make the choice to walk out when he says he is going to grab my nuts and if I tell him not to he simply won't. If I tell him not to touch my child he will not. If I don't feel comfortable I always have the option to simply leave without repercussion.

Through intimidating tactics, threat of arrest at some airports, and threat of $10K fines removes that choice at the airport.

Furthermore, the "don't fly" argument is bullshit. If they setup TSA at every public sidewalk would you say "don't walk"? You are still free to travel about on all the non-public roads, sidewalks, etc.. as long as the private owner grants you permission.

Now if the airlines required this, minus removing my ability to say no during the procedure, before I got on their privately owned plane that would be vastly different from what the Federal Government is currently doing.

 

[Darwin333]

This has never happened in 100 years of commercial aviation. What makes you think it will happen now?

Seriously, you're a hell of a lot more likely to be killed driving your car to work than in an airplane.

Have any facts what-so-ever to back up your assertion that there is a serious risk to bodily harm from other passengers while flying?

His bathtub has a higher likelihood of causing him harm than a terrorist on US soil. It really is that absurd.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Poor baby.

Get a thicker skin or learn to smile for the body-scanner.

Bet you wouldn't be saying this if this policy had been under the Buuuuuuuuuuussssshhhhh admin. I would have opposed it then as much as I oppose it now.

 

[FerrelGeek]

I cant believe that lefties that were so vehemently against the patriot act are in favor of this.

That blows my god damn mind.

Very simple. The people that they like are in power, so it's OK.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Im going to laugh when people get blown up in flight because they didnt want someones private areas inspected where the bomber hid the bomb.

Will you laugh if someone smuggles a bomb across our insecure borders and kills a bunch of innocent people?

 

[soulcougher73]

Will you laugh if someone smuggles a bomb across our insecure borders and kills a bunch of innocent people?

Probably. We need to secure them better as well. Id rather spend money here though then on the airport security if i had the choice.

 

[soulcougher73]

This has never happened in 100 years of commercial aviation. What makes you think it will happen now?

Seriously, you're a hell of a lot more likely to be killed driving your car to work than in an airplane.

Have any facts what-so-ever to back up your assertion that there is a serious risk to bodily harm from other passengers while flying?

I know this and i agree. Air travel is very safe statistically. Personally i think all this airport security is rediculous and is a waste of money. But as i said i would laugh if you were to complain about a private area search and then end up on the 1 plane that does blow up and it was found out the explosive was hidden in some guys nether region.

 

[IBMer]

I cant believe that lefties that were so vehemently against the patriot act are in favor of this.

That blows my god damn mind.

There are quite a few "righties" here for it too... missed those?

 

[nick1985]

There are quite a few "righties" here for it too... missed those?

I must have. Who are they?