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Those PocketPCs are nice, but why so little memory?
- Thread starter KDOG
- Start date
Buddha Bart
Diamond Member
You can get by with 2mb on a palm as long as you don't want to play any games, or abuse avantgo.
bart
bart
Oyeve
Lifer
Well, I love em. i use a compaq ipaq pocket pc and can pop in a 128 compactflash card to boost it. I think the reason that the memory is so low is that they can sell you memory and make even more money. Most consumers will by the same name brand memory for their pocket pcs so there is the money making opportunity.
NFS4
No Lifer
<< And whats up with that battery life? 2hrs? Bleeech. They're gettin good, but they aren't there yet, IMHO. >>
2 hours? If you're talking about the Ars Technica review of the iPaq, they're sorely mistaken. I frequent this iPaq BBS quite frequently, and folks get 2.5 to 3 hours USING A POWER HUNGRY 1 GB IBM MICRODRIVE. Otherwise, they hitting 8 hours plus. And remember, these things have 206MHz processors and color displays. Of course you're gonna get long battery life with only 16MHz and non-color displays of most Palms.
I personally get 6-8 hours on my 16bit color Compaq Aero when not using the 32MB CF card. And wherever I go, I'm close to a power recepticle so who cares?😉
<< I know thier not made to play Q3 on, but 32m RAM and 16m ROM? That sucks!!! It should be more like 64/32 or better. >>
You obviously don't know much about apps for PocketPCs 😉 I have tons of apps on my PDA which has 24MB of RAM, and I use 4.82 MB RAM for storage (all my apps, contacts, messages, calander stuff, etc.) and still have 5.85 MB left in storage to add more. The other 13.22MB is allocated for program memory. Most apps are less than 100k so they don't take up that much space.
I play games (even on this 70MHz MIPS processor) quite fast and program memory never becomes a problem. And if you need more storage (as stated above), get a 64MB or 128MB Compact Flash card. Better yet, if you have the $$$ get a 540MB or 1 GB Microdrive.
I personally use a 32MB Compact Flash and will probably get a 128MB or higher in the future to go with my iPaq H3630 which should be here in a few weeks😛😛
NFS4
No Lifer
<< besides the size and stability >>
Size is not even an issue any more with the iPaq and stability rivals Palm with WinCE 3.0 (PocketPC).
<< The monochrome Palms last weeks on a single set of triple A batteries, or a week if you use it all the time. >>
Let's compare apples to apples...how long does the color Palm last on a set of batteries? And that "weeks" battery life that you quote; is that with the machine staying on for weeks at a time or on and off normal usage? Hell, if we're talking about "normal" usage, I could easily go a week or more on my Aero. I don't know of many people that use their PDA for 8-12 hours straight.
randomlinh
Lifer
no matter which you use, they are still overpriced phone books to me 🙂 Then again, i really couldn't find a use for these things.
Eug
Lifer
<< Let's compare apples to apples... >>
That's the whole point, they are very different machines. For most business users, most of the extra functionality that an PocketPC machine offers is superfluous, yet adds extra cost at the expense of battery life. I am not saying the PocketPC is a bad machine at all but I find it tends to cater to more the tinkerer/early adopter type (which includes many of us). However, when it comes to price vs functionality, the PocketPC machines still have a long way to go. I like colour, and would get a colour machine for myself if they didn't cost so much. However, I almost never recommend a colour machine for anyone else.
NFS4
No Lifer
<< but I find it tends to cater to more the tinkerer/early adopter type (which includes many of us). >>
I'd have to disagree there concerning that most people who use PocketPC's are "early adopters." PocketPC's are more complex and have many more features and capabilities in the hands of the user compared to Palms.
I wouldn't say that an "early adopter" would use the modem or CF card as I use with my Aero. They would use the device much in the way that Palm users do (data entry and schedule maintenance). I OTOH have the ability to use my PDA for much more than those simple tasks and use it is a 80% scale laptop.
The only thing that PocketPC has going against it right now is price IMHO. And that is pretty much swallowed up by the increased functionality and color screens that come standard with most PocketPCs.
Eug
Lifer
NFS4,
I'm not flaming, but I'm not sure I understood the gist of the last post, but I think I understand parts of it.
In any case what I was trying to say was that most of the people I've known that have gone with the Windows CE and PocketPC were wowwed initially by the plethora of features, but then discovered that there was not a significant benefit in terms of what is useful on a day to day basis. For instance, MP3 is not common at all with Palm OS PDAs but are quite common with PocketPC, but most people who are not the AnandTecher types don't really care about MP3 that much if it means they can buy a PDA for 1/3rd the price. Actually, the best two PDA-based MP3 players in existence are actually the Visor with an add-on module, but for most Visor users that is irrelevant because they cost more than the Visor itself! For me, I'd rather just buy a CD-R based MP3 player for $200 bux, hold over a hundred high bit-rate songs per disc, and be able to play my CDs as well. With the iPaq for instance one is forced to pay for this functionality already regardless of whether or not you want it.
As for modems I don't yet have one, but that's because I had been waiting for the Innogear SixPak which includes both wired connections to land lines and wireless, as well as extra memory etc. (I may just buy a standard modem if the SixPak gets delayed because I want to have one when I am away from work on a business trip or somthing.) Standard modems etc. are a dime a dozen with Palm OS PDAs. (OK, not a dime... 😉 But they are very common nonetheless.)
As for work functionality, I can use spreadsheets if I need to, although it means I have to spend a few bux to register one compatible with Excel. Fortunately for PocketPC users, there is already one built-in. However, either way, it's still a pain in the @ss to use a spreadsheet on any PDA, whether it be Palm or PocketPC. If I really needed to truly use Excel, I'd buy a laptop. OTOH, writing letters, email, memos, articles, etc., is actually OK on a PDA. Actually, it's now a breeze with my Stowaway foldable full-size keyboard. I can't really create a final formatted article on my Visor, but then again who cares? Well, actually, I do, so again I have another reason to go to a full-fledged laptop. For these, neither a Palm nor a PocketPC does the job adequately.
It's no surprise that Palm still holds 70-80% of the PDA market. I once was talking to a friend who works fairly high up in Microsoft. He asked me why I bought a Visor, and why I edit the Visor FAQ. I told him the reasons above. It was interesting to hear that he agreed actually, and that the Windows CE OS was not really meant for PDAs. This was during the pre-PocketPC days in truth, but even with the slimmed down version I think some of the same arguments apply, albeit less so.
I'll just end off by saying that I researched my purchase for 6 months before I purchased mine. Initially I wanted a Casio E-115, but when I got over the "Wow! That's cool!" phase I decided I rather spend my extra hard earned bux on new skis or something. However, if an iPaq existed for the same price as a Visor Platinum, I'd strongly consider buying it (at least if I hadn't already bought this stuff I own now). Now, one thing we must always remember is that our purchase must suit our own needs. The Microsoft-based machines definitely suit you NFS4 more than me, and that's great. Competition is good and that drives innovation.
I'm not flaming, but I'm not sure I understood the gist of the last post, but I think I understand parts of it.
In any case what I was trying to say was that most of the people I've known that have gone with the Windows CE and PocketPC were wowwed initially by the plethora of features, but then discovered that there was not a significant benefit in terms of what is useful on a day to day basis. For instance, MP3 is not common at all with Palm OS PDAs but are quite common with PocketPC, but most people who are not the AnandTecher types don't really care about MP3 that much if it means they can buy a PDA for 1/3rd the price. Actually, the best two PDA-based MP3 players in existence are actually the Visor with an add-on module, but for most Visor users that is irrelevant because they cost more than the Visor itself! For me, I'd rather just buy a CD-R based MP3 player for $200 bux, hold over a hundred high bit-rate songs per disc, and be able to play my CDs as well. With the iPaq for instance one is forced to pay for this functionality already regardless of whether or not you want it.
As for modems I don't yet have one, but that's because I had been waiting for the Innogear SixPak which includes both wired connections to land lines and wireless, as well as extra memory etc. (I may just buy a standard modem if the SixPak gets delayed because I want to have one when I am away from work on a business trip or somthing.) Standard modems etc. are a dime a dozen with Palm OS PDAs. (OK, not a dime... 😉 But they are very common nonetheless.)
As for work functionality, I can use spreadsheets if I need to, although it means I have to spend a few bux to register one compatible with Excel. Fortunately for PocketPC users, there is already one built-in. However, either way, it's still a pain in the @ss to use a spreadsheet on any PDA, whether it be Palm or PocketPC. If I really needed to truly use Excel, I'd buy a laptop. OTOH, writing letters, email, memos, articles, etc., is actually OK on a PDA. Actually, it's now a breeze with my Stowaway foldable full-size keyboard. I can't really create a final formatted article on my Visor, but then again who cares? Well, actually, I do, so again I have another reason to go to a full-fledged laptop. For these, neither a Palm nor a PocketPC does the job adequately.
It's no surprise that Palm still holds 70-80% of the PDA market. I once was talking to a friend who works fairly high up in Microsoft. He asked me why I bought a Visor, and why I edit the Visor FAQ. I told him the reasons above. It was interesting to hear that he agreed actually, and that the Windows CE OS was not really meant for PDAs. This was during the pre-PocketPC days in truth, but even with the slimmed down version I think some of the same arguments apply, albeit less so.
I'll just end off by saying that I researched my purchase for 6 months before I purchased mine. Initially I wanted a Casio E-115, but when I got over the "Wow! That's cool!" phase I decided I rather spend my extra hard earned bux on new skis or something. However, if an iPaq existed for the same price as a Visor Platinum, I'd strongly consider buying it (at least if I hadn't already bought this stuff I own now). Now, one thing we must always remember is that our purchase must suit our own needs. The Microsoft-based machines definitely suit you NFS4 more than me, and that's great. Competition is good and that drives innovation.
NFS4
No Lifer
I agree about WinCE devices not being very funcional to the average user with any OS prior to WinCE 3.0. Those OS's were basically just a cut down and stripped version of Win95. My Aero originally came with WinCE 2.11 but I upgraded the ROM to PocketPC which was money well spent (considering I only paid $200 for the Aero and it retailed for $400+ at the time).
I have nothing to say about the Palm market share b/c what is there to say? They dominate plain and simple. IMHO if PocketPC's were the same price the market share would be 50/50, but this isn't a perfect world. As for paying for stuff you don't need, that may be true for some, but I use every last single feature on my PDA including MP3 playback. PocketPC's are not for people who don't plan on using all the features. If you're not gonna be doing some serious work with it, don't bother. I like the option of being able to hook up wireless LAN card (or wired LAN), the ability to use many PCMCIA cards for laptops, etc.
The main draw of PDA's is portability so getting a stowable keyboard just doesn't do it for me. I'm not gonna lug something extra along with me if I don't have to. Data entry for the Palm is horrendous IMHO with Grafiti. I use Trancsriber on my PDA which most say is just as good as the entry system on the much loved Apple Newton. I can write directly anywhere on the screen and it converts all of my handwriting to text (doesn't matter if I write in cursive or print) and it's about 95% accurate by now with my handwriting.
And I have no problems entering in data with Pocket Excel on my PDA. It's quite simple actually. And the ability to transfer files so effortlessly back and forth between Office 2000 is great. Same goes for Pocket Word - the only thing missing is a spell checker 😉
And not to mention the fully fledged web browser that comes with PocketPC. I mean IE 5.0 which is a great scaled down version of the one we all know and love 😉 No clipped pages or shortness of info. You get it all in its full glory and PIE even scales the frame down for your PDA to make it easier to read. And if that's not good enough, you can change the size of the words to suit your tastes.
And after living with color for so long, I can't go back to anything of a "lesser" nature...it just isn't natural 😉
I paid $200 for my Aero and $99 for the PocketPC upgrade. Not bad at all. I figure that I can get maybe $200-225 out of the deal if I sell it in the condition that it's in now. That takes my out of pocket costs for the iPaq between $275-300. For my money, that's an excellent deal and I'll use every single feature available to me. Buying a PalmOS PDA would just be a waste of money for me considering what I use my PDA for.
In short, Palm users can keep their 70-80% share of the market, but I'll enjoy my far superior (in my eyes) piece of hardware (features and expandibility wise). 😀
I can't wait to get my iPaq. My mouth is watering in anticipation and you puny Dragonball weenies can suck on the sweet exhaust of 206MHz of SA-1110 StrongARM power....J/K 😛
I have nothing to say about the Palm market share b/c what is there to say? They dominate plain and simple. IMHO if PocketPC's were the same price the market share would be 50/50, but this isn't a perfect world. As for paying for stuff you don't need, that may be true for some, but I use every last single feature on my PDA including MP3 playback. PocketPC's are not for people who don't plan on using all the features. If you're not gonna be doing some serious work with it, don't bother. I like the option of being able to hook up wireless LAN card (or wired LAN), the ability to use many PCMCIA cards for laptops, etc.
The main draw of PDA's is portability so getting a stowable keyboard just doesn't do it for me. I'm not gonna lug something extra along with me if I don't have to. Data entry for the Palm is horrendous IMHO with Grafiti. I use Trancsriber on my PDA which most say is just as good as the entry system on the much loved Apple Newton. I can write directly anywhere on the screen and it converts all of my handwriting to text (doesn't matter if I write in cursive or print) and it's about 95% accurate by now with my handwriting.
And I have no problems entering in data with Pocket Excel on my PDA. It's quite simple actually. And the ability to transfer files so effortlessly back and forth between Office 2000 is great. Same goes for Pocket Word - the only thing missing is a spell checker 😉
And not to mention the fully fledged web browser that comes with PocketPC. I mean IE 5.0 which is a great scaled down version of the one we all know and love 😉 No clipped pages or shortness of info. You get it all in its full glory and PIE even scales the frame down for your PDA to make it easier to read. And if that's not good enough, you can change the size of the words to suit your tastes.
And after living with color for so long, I can't go back to anything of a "lesser" nature...it just isn't natural 😉
I paid $200 for my Aero and $99 for the PocketPC upgrade. Not bad at all. I figure that I can get maybe $200-225 out of the deal if I sell it in the condition that it's in now. That takes my out of pocket costs for the iPaq between $275-300. For my money, that's an excellent deal and I'll use every single feature available to me. Buying a PalmOS PDA would just be a waste of money for me considering what I use my PDA for.
In short, Palm users can keep their 70-80% share of the market, but I'll enjoy my far superior (in my eyes) piece of hardware (features and expandibility wise). 😀
I can't wait to get my iPaq. My mouth is watering in anticipation and you puny Dragonball weenies can suck on the sweet exhaust of 206MHz of SA-1110 StrongARM power....J/K 😛
Oyeve
Lifer
I am the RAS engineer for the company I work for. I have done R&D with palm vx's and cpq ipaq. Amongst all my users it is a 50 50 split between the both. For people who just want to be able to get their exchange email (mostly execs) I set up a palm vx with multi-mail (great product btw)I setup an exchange server to use the imap protocol and the use the Ericsson i888 world phone that has a pccard modem built in. This phone works all over the world. They point their palm vx to the cell phone, it calls my Shiva devices in NYC and they can send, receive and store their emails to the palm. For my more high tech users we use the cpq ipaq with the Sierra Aircard. This allows them to actually connect to their exchange server and get email. they can also browse the web and even connect to the Novell servers and do file and print! Both of these are wireless system that do not require a phone jack. The palm system I setup works all over the world and the ipaq works in most major locations in the USA. Both of these systems have their uses in my environment as you can see. I would have to sort of sway over to the ipaq because you also get the media player stuff which comes in handy for music and such, but the palm vx has a special place in my heart for its simplicity and elegance.
If you're comparing them on PIM funtions only, you dont need much more than a palm. But theres just so much more a Pocket PC can do. Arguably palm can do many of these things, but by the time you purchase all the software to do so, you might as well have bought a pocket pc. I have the same unit NFS4 has (upgraded aero 2100), and its pretty damn cool. Pocket PCs are exactly that, Pocket PCs. Palms are glorified PIMs. And why the hell are they so expensive? The diff between a Palm IIIe and IIIxe is pretty much only 6mb, so why $100 extra? Palm is taking the public for a ride. I hope they wise up, and we get some real competition in the PDA market.
Oyeve
Lifer
The only REAL downside to a pocket PC is its speed. It is quite slow when compared to a Palm. I know its more robust and can do more but the graphical overhead really just slows it down a lot. I just got another one to R&D. Its an HP Jornada 547. Oh joy! I love my job sometimes. The ipaq feels better though. 🙂
I have an ipaq and a nokia 8890 phone. The phone works as a decent yet slow wireless modem for the ipaq. The WinCE 3.0 API documentation leaves a bit to be desired as well. However, it's not like the Palm or RIM APIs are any good either...
Waiting on the pcmcia cradle and the sierra wireless aircard for the ipaq. I'd like to do a speed comparison on the two.
BTW, the Jornada is a POS compared to the ipaq. The screen on the Jornada is horrible and so is the general look and feel.
Waiting on the pcmcia cradle and the sierra wireless aircard for the ipaq. I'd like to do a speed comparison on the two.
BTW, the Jornada is a POS compared to the ipaq. The screen on the Jornada is horrible and so is the general look and feel.
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