Those against redistribution of wealth

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre
First off, let me say that you should go and tell this bullshit to an NBA coach, or an NFL coach, or a MLB manager, and let them explain why your statement is utter bullshit. They'd do a much better job than I could.

They wouldn't be able to and certainly you're not capable.

But let me make an attempt anyway, because what you said here is just so damn infuriating, I can't hardly resist.

If what you said is true, and it sure as hell isn't, professional athletes wouldn't be making anywhere near as much money.

Pure and simple logical fallacy, and shows a total displacement from reality. Who here honestly thinks that, for example, a blob like Shaquille O'Neal works/worked as hard as average Americans during their 40 hour weeks? If you claim otherwise please be specific because I can reject that bullshit about as easily as Shaq did garbage chippies in the lane in his prime. Guys like Shaq (one easy example, there are dozens and dozens of others) were born with physical gifts and little else; this was never a man known for his work ethic and yet he's a top 5 player in his sport all time. This is consensus among Magic, Laker, and Heat fans. Consensus (save for the loony fringe Shaq fans). Dude was a lazy guy, and he's hundreds of millions of dollars better for it. Nothing wrong with paying him that, but he absolutely must be taxed at a higher rate than a working mother making 60K per week. That's the way the country is moving anyway so it's not like it isn't a reality.

Is there some "luck" here? Sure, it isn't skill that makes someone 7 feet tall, or able to weigh 350 lb's. But this is just an extremely small part of their life that got these athletes where they are.

Just like a doctor, or a lawyer, or the CEO of a company, being a successful professional athlete takes total dedication and total determination. It means a lot more than just missing out on some partying, and waking up early in the morning. Going to and passing classes that you don't like, getting along with teammates, traveling from city to city, being away from your family for long periods of time. It means a lot more than that.

I knew a guy in high school who was really an unbelievable basketball player. There wasn't any doubt in my mind he was going to college on scholarship. And sure enough, the offers were there. The then-championship Arkansas team wanted him, and definitely a few others as well. There was one problem though. He wasn't dedicated. The desire and the talent were there, clear as day, easy as pie. He had taken the ACT a few times and never got above 16. He needed a 17. Such a small obstacle, and such an incredible reward. But the very night before his last chance at taking the ACT, I saw him at a baseball game. He was drinking Jack right from the bottle.

I'm sure he's bagging groceries somewhere today. I hope not, but I wouldn't bet against the idea.

Now let me tell you about another guy, whom I never knew personally, but I liked watching him play for our Memphis team last year. Big guy, black guy. He was the very first person in his family to graduate from high school. Not college, high school. During an interview, he had this to say, ?A lot of people in my neighborhood said that I wouldn?t make it, go to college." "Everyone back home thought I would be the first guy from Douglass High School kicked off a college team." ?I remember walking around, dribbling a basketball 24-7 when I was younger,? he said. ?I would see a lot of guys 6-8, 6-9 on the corner drinking beer, smoking marijuana, everything like that. I didn?t want to be one of those guys.?

And he isn't one of those guys. He now plays in the NBA. And it wasn't just raw talent that God gave him. It was willpower, determination, it was believing in himself. It was learning how to play basketball, and then relearning how to play basketball. It was going the extra mile, every time, and in everything he did. If shooting free throws wasn't his thing, too fucking bad, he had to do it, he had to put in extra time.

Look, I love the stories about inner city athletes making it big, I love them because they tell you how anyone can become anything they want with hard work, honest dedication, and a little luck in this country. Can't do that anywhere else to the same degree you can here, you just can't and it's what I want to fight for. But this says nothing about the average athlete who is, I'm sorry to say, a spoiled young adult with little semblance of what it means to fight to pay a mortgage. On average, they don't know these things because they don't have to. They don't have to pay off college loans like an average American does. They don't know what it's like not to get their way financially because worst case they can own a house free and clear. I'd take the occasional suicide drill on the basketball court 2 hours a week over a 40+ hour work week every day and twice on Sundays. So would anyone sane that isn't crippled or obese.

In the end, it isn't really any different than someone who wants to be a doctor, a lawyer, or anything else. The competition is extreme, and you won't find a professional basketball player, football player, baseball player, hockey player, gymnast, or whatever, who didn't work his or her ass off to get there.

What? Is this a fucking joke? I can name a half a dozen players off the to of my head right now, just in one sport, that didn't do shit to become who they currently are; Shaq, Tim Thomas, Baron Davis, Jerome James, Darius Miles, Steve Francis, Michael Olowokandi, Quentin Richardson, Rasheed Wallace....the list is f'ing endless.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Evan
We have a fundamental difference of opinion in what constitutes work then, because what I hear from athletes by and large is that playing sports for them isn't work, it's fun.

This is true for anyone who likes their job. Very often, I don't consider my work as work, as I enjoy doing it.

Sports are considered a recreation for a reason. But hey, start a poll and ask the following; "Which would you rather do for a living, play your favorite sport professionally for millions of dollars, or work at a computer for 40 hours a week". Or hell, the latter can just be "anything else".

 

[Nemesis 1]

I liked some of my jobs . But it was work. Now give me a choice . What job I can do . Without meeting any requirements.

I could easily run a bank. Without stealing from depositors. Still make $$$ without threat of bank rupture. Just by using simple common sense. There are alot of ceo's jobs I could easily do . More than likely better than the ones in place. Hormel corporation I could easily Do better . By simply following the example of the founder. Ford Motor I could have them in the Black in a year. EASILY and cut jobs. While raising the standard of living for the workers. Simply by following the founders example . Union be voted out so fast your head would spin. I worked under the old system . Not one worker didn't like it other than the LAZY. Success is measured off the backs of employees. reward them all well. Success is easy.

Than there is the the most complex worker of them all. The ones who are not lazy but Hate their jobs. These are the ones I want if their good.Pay these guys really well so they stay. They hate their jobs so much . They bust ass all day long day in day out . Just to make time pass faster. These I really like their keepers.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Unfortunately there are 70-something more days until we can start redistributing stuff.

What are you willing to give?

I don't make more than $250,000/year, so I'm in the business of taking.

Part time job at Popeyes living at home with mom and dad for free?

 

[MagicConch]

Really the whole thing is completely arbitrary. The middle class in the US are still some of the richest people in the world. Although a few of them feel those richer than them in this country have an obligation to them, I doubt most of those same individuals feel an obligation to the poor in other countries, even though many of the products in their homes are sometimes made by people who live in horrible living standards and are paid a rediculously low wage to make the products we buy more inexpensive. greed is one thing that all classes have in abundance.

 

[AFMatt]

Folks, dont waste your typing to argue with Evan. It is clearly obvious he is far too intelligent to include athletes and their coaches/mentors into any reasonable discussion because they are not up to par. Or, in other words, he is butthurt because someone with athletic ability makes more money than someone many would say is "booksmart."
Argue away, Evan, but you know I am right. You also refuse to accept the fact athletes have to work extremely hard to get to the $. And I know, because I was a 5 letterman athlete in HS but chose to go another route for my life career.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Unfortunately there are 70-something more days until we can start redistributing stuff.

What are you willing to give?

I don't make more than $250,000/year, so I'm in the business of taking.

Part time job at Popeyes living at home with mom and dad for free?

How did you know?

That's kind of creepy.

 

[AFMatt]

Oh yeah, and the bottom line still remains.. It is absolutely unreasonable to penalize people who are able to make more money than others; No matter what their job is or how hard they had to work to get there.
Don't throw the CEO golden parachute argument out again, because that is the fault of corps and has nothing to do with taxes or gov't.

 

[jpeyton]

Earth to hacks: Obama did not invent progressive taxation.

 

[AFMatt]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Earth to hacks: Obama did not invent progressive taxation.

Earth to jpeyton: progressive taxation never gave me an extra check in the mail other than the "oh, we took slightly too much by default, here's a refund. Maybe if you would have claimed your actual number of dependents this wouldn't have happened" check.
Thanks, play again.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: AFMatt
Oh yeah, and the bottom line still remains.. It is absolutely unreasonable to penalize people who are able to make more money than others; No matter what their job is or how hard they had to work to get there.
Don't throw the CEO golden parachute argument out again, because that is the fault of corps and has nothing to do with taxes or gov't.

They damn sure control the wealth, or lack there of, they distribute to their employees. A very small % of people in the US control a very large % of the wealth. 1% of the US population own 45% of the stocks. I wonder who controls the money supply in the US? The Fed or private banks?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Evan

Originally posted by: bamacre
First off, let me say that you should go and tell this bullshit to an NBA coach, or an NFL coach, or a MLB manager, and let them explain why your statement is utter bullshit. They'd do a much better job than I could.

They wouldn't be able to and certainly you're not capable.

But let me make an attempt anyway, because what you said here is just so damn infuriating, I can't hardly resist.

If what you said is true, and it sure as hell isn't, professional athletes wouldn't be making anywhere near as much money.

Pure and simple logical fallacy, and shows a total displacement from reality. Who here honestly thinks that, for example, a blob like Shaquille O'Neal works/worked as hard as average Americans during their 40 hour weeks? If you claim otherwise please be specific because I can reject that bullshit about as easily as Shaq did garbage chippies in the lane in his prime. Guys like Shaq (one easy example, there are dozens and dozens of others) were born with physical gifts and little else; this was never a man known for his work ethic and yet he's a top 5 player in his sport all time. This is consensus among Magic, Laker, and Heat fans. Consensus (save for the loony fringe Shaq fans). Dude was a lazy guy, and he's hundreds of millions of dollars better for it. Nothing wrong with paying him that, but he absolutely must be taxed at a higher rate than a working mother making 60K per week. That's the way the country is moving anyway so it's not like it isn't a reality.

Is there some "luck" here? Sure, it isn't skill that makes someone 7 feet tall, or able to weigh 350 lb's. But this is just an extremely small part of their life that got these athletes where they are.

Just like a doctor, or a lawyer, or the CEO of a company, being a successful professional athlete takes total dedication and total determination. It means a lot more than just missing out on some partying, and waking up early in the morning. Going to and passing classes that you don't like, getting along with teammates, traveling from city to city, being away from your family for long periods of time. It means a lot more than that.

I knew a guy in high school who was really an unbelievable basketball player. There wasn't any doubt in my mind he was going to college on scholarship. And sure enough, the offers were there. The then-championship Arkansas team wanted him, and definitely a few others as well. There was one problem though. He wasn't dedicated. The desire and the talent were there, clear as day, easy as pie. He had taken the ACT a few times and never got above 16. He needed a 17. Such a small obstacle, and such an incredible reward. But the very night before his last chance at taking the ACT, I saw him at a baseball game. He was drinking Jack right from the bottle.

I'm sure he's bagging groceries somewhere today. I hope not, but I wouldn't bet against the idea.

Now let me tell you about another guy, whom I never knew personally, but I liked watching him play for our Memphis team last year. Big guy, black guy. He was the very first person in his family to graduate from high school. Not college, high school. During an interview, he had this to say, ?A lot of people in my neighborhood said that I wouldn?t make it, go to college." "Everyone back home thought I would be the first guy from Douglass High School kicked off a college team." ?I remember walking around, dribbling a basketball 24-7 when I was younger,? he said. ?I would see a lot of guys 6-8, 6-9 on the corner drinking beer, smoking marijuana, everything like that. I didn?t want to be one of those guys.?

And he isn't one of those guys. He now plays in the NBA. And it wasn't just raw talent that God gave him. It was willpower, determination, it was believing in himself. It was learning how to play basketball, and then relearning how to play basketball. It was going the extra mile, every time, and in everything he did. If shooting free throws wasn't his thing, too fucking bad, he had to do it, he had to put in extra time.

Look, I love the stories about inner city athletes making it big, I love them because they tell you how anyone can become anything they want with hard work, honest dedication, and a little luck in this country. Can't do that anywhere else to the same degree you can here, you just can't and it's what I want to fight for. But this says nothing about the average athlete who is, I'm sorry to say, a spoiled young adult with little semblance of what it means to fight to pay a mortgage. On average, they don't know these things because they don't have to. They don't have to pay off college loans like an average American does. They don't know what it's like not to get their way financially because worst case they can own a house free and clear. I'd take the occasional suicide drill on the basketball court 2 hours a week over a 40+ hour work week every day and twice on Sundays. So would anyone sane that isn't crippled or obese.

In the end, it isn't really any different than someone who wants to be a doctor, a lawyer, or anything else. The competition is extreme, and you won't find a professional basketball player, football player, baseball player, hockey player, gymnast, or whatever, who didn't work his or her ass off to get there.

What? Is this a fucking joke? I can name a half a dozen players off the to of my head right now, just in one sport, that didn't do shit to become who they currently are; Shaq, Tim Thomas, Baron Davis, Jerome James, Darius Miles, Steve Francis, Michael Olowokandi, Quentin Richardson, Rasheed Wallace....the list is f'ing endless.

Good job at back-peddling from your original statement,...

For example, baseball or football players being taxed at high rates is great because most of them didn't earn their money, they were just born with physical gifts.

And your posts throughout this thread, especially this one, show you to be nothing more than a little schmuck with no sense of reality.

 

[nealh]

I am sadden to seeso many people here complain that the "wealthy" should pay more than anyone else
Have any of you looked at the tax rolls...the so called welathy already pay such a disproportinate amount of taxes you would be shocked

Some of those so called wealthy got lucky, inherited etc..but someone along the way worked hard and earned it. I hope someday to leave my son money to help but I EXPECT him to always do his best, get a job and live within his means...no handouts

I have a real issue with those paying no taxes getting money back ..sorry that is absurd. Do I beleive we need some safety nets of course. I have no trouble helping people who try, work hard and get in a pinch...that is a moral obligation.

But I dont see how it is my fault that those idiots who bought what they could not afford deserve being bailed out. Oh I need a bigger house so I will get a loa, I cant afford but I refinance later. Oh I need a new car, pool etc so I will take a home equity loan and refinance later as my house value only goes up. I will take a loan while lying on my application

Look we have a huge problem right now because everyone was selfish...main street and wall street and our gov't(both parites) knew the BS going and turned their back

I carry no debt except my house, a car and monthly bills. I was taught by my father you get what you work for and earn. He helped me, yes
But I paid for school on scholarships and loans(paid it all back myself)..I helped my fiance take out school loans before we were married because her family thought this was a bad idea..but I paid those back too.. I asked no one for nothing.

I spent 13yrs getting educated after high school...I did not have a real paying job till I was nealry 32years old....I made my wife wait for things as we could afford them, no matter what her friends were doing. I refused in '03 to buy too much house becasue a realtor said I could get so much more and my wife wanted more

So why should I see my taxes go up to redistribute wealth to the selfish people in this country.

I have no problem paying my taxes..never cheat or cut corners. But I get sick to see how our congress finds so many BS ways to waste money at every turn. They have no fiscal responsibility with our money(its like play money to them). Despite everyone saying how "bad the Bush tax cuts were"...the US is receiving more money now in its tax base than ever before(many believe lower tax rates have led to better collection rates and less cheating)

Perfect example of total bull crap..$700B bailout which I think was not an overall good thing but ncessary to prevent implosion of our financial system...could not get done without adding $150B for pork barrel crap(thats one full year of spending on the Iraqi war everyone thinks is wasteful)....great lets give these idiots more money to waste


BTW what do you think will happen to the economy when the "wealthy" have less to spend...oh yea the money will be given to someone else...do you think what the lower income people will do with that money will drive our economy..nope..they will get too little to make an impact
Increasing corporate taxes(social security taxes and corporate rates) and forcing more mandatory benefits ..will drop profits. The what happens...more jobs nope..job loss. That will help as well

I have no problems with stimilus packages that are well thought out to help correct problems but just sending a few hundred $$ is too short lived for a real bump. Help deserving hoemwoners who can at least pay lower interest rate mortgage. Allow business that should fail..fail
But those comapnies that viable that are getting squeezed becasue of the panick that has developed

Those who believe in spreading the wealthy, how many of you will be paying more....if not do you think you would be happy to hear your hard work was being done to give your neighbor just becasue he earns less than you. This was a recent poll that asked people if the wealthy should pay more 51% said yes. Then they were asked what their goals were...to be wealthy. Then they were asked, when they are wealthy should they have to pay more in taxes and they said it would be unfair for THEM to have too.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: nealh
I am sadden to seeso many people here complain that the "wealthy" should pay more than anyone else
Have any of you looked at the tax rolls...the so called welathy already pay such a disproportinate amount of taxes you would be shocked

Some of those so called wealthy got lucky, inherited etc..but someone along the way worked hard and earned it. I hope someday to leave my son money to help but I EXPECT him to always do his best, get a job and live within his means...no handouts

I have a real issue with those paying no taxes getting money back ..sorry that is absurd. Do I beleive we need some safety nets of course. I have no trouble helping people who try, work hard and get in a pinch...that is a moral obligation.

But I dont see how it is my fault that those idiots who bought what they could not afford deserve being bailed out. Oh I need a bigger house so I will get a loa, I cant afford but I refinance later. Oh I need a new car, pool etc so I will take a home equity loan and refinance later as my house value only goes up. I will take a loan while lying on my application

Look we have a huge problem right now because everyone was selfish...main street and wall street and our gov't(both parites) knew the BS going and turned their back

I carry no debt except my house, a car and monthly bills. I was taught by my father you get what you work for and earn. He helped me, yes
But I paid for school on scholarships and loans(paid it all back myself)..I helped my fiance take out school loans before we were married because her family thought this was a bad idea..but I paid those back too.. I asked no one for nothing.

I spent 13yrs getting educated after high school...I did not have a real paying job till I was nealry 32years old....I made my wife wait for things as we could afford them, no matter what her friends were doing. I refused in '03 to buy too much house becasue a realtor said I could get so much more and my wife wanted more

So why should I see my taxes go up to redistribute wealth to the selfish people in this country.

I have no problem paying my taxes..never cheat or cut corners. But I get sick to see how our congress finds so many BS ways to waste money at every turn. They have no fiscal responsibility with our money(its like play money to them). Despite everyone saying how "bad the Bush tax cuts were"...the US is receiving more money now in its tax base than ever before(many believe lower tax rates have led to better collection rates and less cheating)

Perfect example of total bull crap..$700B bailout which I think was not an overall good thing but ncessary to prevent implosion of our financial system...could not get done without adding $150B for pork barrel crap(thats one full year of spending on the Iraqi war everyone thinks is wasteful)....great lets give these idiots more money to waste


BTW what do you think will happen to the economy when the "wealthy" have less to spend...oh yea the money will be given to someone else...do you think what the lower income people will do with that money will drive our economy..nope..they will get too little to make an impact
Increasing corporate taxes(social security taxes and corporate rates) and forcing more mandatory benefits ..will drop profits. The what happens...more jobs nope..job loss. That will help as well

I have no problems with stimilus packages that are well thought out to help correct problems but just sending a few hundred $$ is too short lived for a real bump. Help deserving hoemwoners who can at least pay lower interest rate mortgage. Allow business that should fail..fail
But those comapnies that viable that are getting squeezed becasue of the panick that has developed

Those who believe in spreading the wealthy, how many of you will be paying more....if not do you think you would be happy to hear your hard work was being done to give your neighbor just becasue he earns less than you. This was a recent poll that asked people if the wealthy should pay more 51% said yes. Then they were asked what their goals were...to be wealthy. Then they were asked, when they are wealthy should they have to pay more in taxes and they said it would be unfair for THEM to have too.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reagan economics don't work.

I guess most people need to beholden to the "wealthy" and should feel blessed when one of them decides to share a few pennies.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Evan
For example, baseball or football players being taxed at high rates is great because most of them didn't earn their money, they were just born with physical gifts.

That is an absurdly ignorant comment, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Moonbeam]

In a world of self hate, this world and your disease, money is the measure by which we pretend otherwise. You aren't really the worst piece of shit on the planet like you actually feel and don't know you feel, you are a somebody because you have money, and you have money, not because you were born with particular gifts, not because you were born in a particular place, not because you narrowed your focus to produce certain results to the exclusion of others, not because of chance in operation, but because you are tremendous, glorious, and special. In all the sea of shit you see, you are worth a dollar.

And now on your mountain of money you look down and piss on the shit of a world you've create in the blind competitiveness and destructiveness of your wake.

You are a somebody in this world because you are a nobody in the one that's hidden deep within you.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Evan
For example, baseball or football players being taxed at high rates is great because most of them didn't earn their money, they were just born with physical gifts.

That is an absurdly ignorant comment, you have no idea what you are talking about.

I think in high school, he didn't make the cheerleading squad. Those girls had it easy, with their God-given chests and hairless legs.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: manlymatt83
I'm curious to know how those against redistribution of wealth don't feel some sort of moral obligation to help.

40% of this nation pays no income tax. The rest of us are saddled with them. When is enough ENOUGH? How many more should it be, until you stop paying? This could be driven by selfishness.

Another thing to consider. This nation has had its golden age, our richest period in our history. Decline from last century's boom means our massive wealth won't be quite so massive. We won't have as much capital to splurge with. Your funding for programs is going to be even more limited than in, for example, the 90s.

Many people complain that higher taxes and "social" programs like health care, etc. are bad. That if people make money, they want to keep that money, and they want the government out of their pockets.

It seems clear that you have no understanding as to why your methods can be bad.

First of all, the Constitution forbids the Union (not the individual States) from having such power. We fought a revolutionary war against an abusive British government, only to replace it with another abusive government? The entire birth of this country would be for naught if we centralize the power (wealth) in this nation. If we combine our law makers with the hand that feeds us then we have become nothing more than slaves to dictators.

History has proven this repeatedly last century. From Stalin, to Mao, to Castro. Do you envy the people of those countries? Because you're well on your way to joining them and learning first hand what it was like to live as they have.

It's a fair argument, but then what do people like that think of people on the streets, etc. who can't have the same opportunities?

Illegals from south of the border risk their lives and their families just to come here for a job. Now you?re telling me that the average job in America is NOT good enough for the American worker? How can it be good enough for the Mexican worker but not good enough for the American worker? This simple fact seems to the proof of something else.

Proof that they should thank god that they live in the richest nation on earth because even the limited wealth they have cannot be sustained indefinitely, and yet they are not grateful for what they have, the same thing people of other nations would die for. Instead they want to centralize power so that they can take more by force at gun point. It is un-American to throw others under your boot, yet that is your only solution to helping the poor?

We can do things better in this nation, but that isn?t through the redistribution of wealth via the centralization of power. Your goals are noble and I would accept them, but the means to your end is worse than the problems our people currently face.

Maybe you have no idea just how good you have it, until you do something stupid and lose it all.

 

[Woofmeister]

The entire concept of wealth redistribution is based on a flawed premise--that wealth accumulation is a zero sum game with each dollar held by one person representing a dollar taken from another person. In fact, even assuming that a dollar is always made at the expense of somebody else (a concept with which I do not agree) a dollar of surplus wealth inevitably creates more wealth in society since you can only spend or save accumulated wealth. Like the old saying goes, "you can't take it with you."

Since people don't put money under their mattresses any more, only three things can happen with any surplus dollar:

(1) it can be spent on goods or services (thereby transferring wealth to those who produce the goods or service); or

(2) it can be invested by purchasing debt or equity (thereby transferring wealth to those businesses and individuals who will use wealth to grow businesses and further expand total wealth); or

(3) it can be given away (thereby transferring wealth directly to those whom the giver believes are most deserving).

Redistribution of wealth through government seeks to accomplish the same thing, but it's a very inefficient way to do it and the process tends to get skewed by political considerations that blunt the effect through wealth transfered to inefficient but favored industries and groups.

Progressive taxation is a fact of life in this country, but it's a "feel good measure" rather than a legitimate economic tool.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: brandonbullI guess most people need to beholden to the "wealthy" and should feel blessed when one of them decides to share a few pennies.

What are you sharing....

What do you pay in taxes...do you have a job? are you educated, and did you work to get it

I love your comments.... I work for a living everyday

Please tell what you donate to charities? Tell how much of your salary you are willing to spread around..I bet 0, but would be happy to take

I am not asking for flat tax rate(which in reality is most fair)..I understand that progressive tax is the reality but why should I have to pay more than someone else just becasue I worked hard to get where I am...will you promise to help me with my retirement..doubt it
I promise you I will apy into medicare and social security than you will...I will not get my equal share back and I will get less from social security and have to pay a higher medicare premium than you at retirement becasue I made more than

You realize I am getting hit on both ends...nope you never thought about that

I would happily take my social security and medicare and invest it myself and bet I end up with more in the long run than the gov't will ever provide me

I am not asking for a tax break....show me an example where "spreading" the wealth leads to healthy economy that you advocate....I never said we should not help but to those who deserve and we know does and does not

Here is good one for you..I know person who handles some rental properties, he went out to collect the rent..5/10 said they no longer had to pay since Obama won...Yeah

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: nealh
I understand that progressive tax is the reality

Great, you're one of the few on this board who do, apparently.

but why should I have to pay more than someone else

Wait, I thought you just said you understood.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you guys truly hated progressive taxation this much, you would have all moved out during the Clinton era.

If Americans as a whole hated it so much, they wouldn't elect politicians who support it.

The "Flat Tax" idea had been floated many times, and crashed & burned every time.

You can call it socialism, communism, whatever-ism...but America has a progressive tax code, now and for the foreseeable future.

Politicians are not voted for on a single issue by the more intelligent people. And the less intelligent people tend to be low earners so telling them that the government is going to give them money will get votes. I'm not going to leave America because of taxes.

This post is 30% sarcastic and 70% opinion.

 

[nealh]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: nealh
I understand that progressive tax is the reality

Great, you're one of the few on this board who do, apparently.

but why should I have to pay more than someone else

Wait, I thought you just said you understood.

Rheortical comment..I understand that progressive taxation is reality but why should it be endless

Did you know:as of 2006
1. top 1% pay 40% of the taxes
2. Top 10% pay 70%
3. top 50% pay 97.1%

So how much more should we pay.....

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: nealh
So how much more should we pay.....

You're not going to be paying more; people making $250,000+ will be paying the same tax rate they did under Clinton.

Somehow the top earners and this country as a whole "survived" the Clinton years. I'm sure we'll survive the Obama years as well.

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
You're not going to be paying more; people making $250,000+ will be paying the same tax rate they did under Clinton.

Does anybody have a table of tax %'s at the end of Clinton's term, compared to now? I'm curious to see how much it has fluctuated.