This will never be settled! Do you use an all SCSI or all IDE based sytem and why?

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wesman6

Senior member
Jan 5, 2001
541
0
0
NFS4,
Not everyone has a 16X or 12X CD-RW do they? The point is that it CAN be done. Are you going to be able to do it with IDE? Don't think so! I know I don't do all those things at one time, but I'm not going to sit at my computer waiting for it to get done in 5 or 6 or whatever minutes. Besides, depending on what your software is for copying, it takes longer than that to create the drive image and then burn it to disk! You're full of BS if you think that'll be done in 5 or 6 minutes.
 

wesman6

Senior member
Jan 5, 2001
541
0
0
NFS4,
Not everyone has a 16X or 12X CD-RW do they? The point is that it CAN be done. Are you going to be able to do it with IDE? Don't think so! I know I don't do all those things at one time, but I'm not going to sit at my computer waiting for it to get done in 5 or 6 or whatever minutes. Besides, depending on what your software is for copying, it takes longer than that to create the drive image and then burn it to disk! You're full of BS if you think that'll be done in 5 or 6 minutes.
 

vec

Golden Member
Oct 12, 1999
1,213
0
71
Both.

All my systems used to be ide and it was great. Best bang for the buck.

About a year ago I had the chance to put together an inexpensive scsi system. At the time probably $100 more than a comparable ide system (friend was upgrading).

By far burning CDs via SCSI is better than burning via IDE. It's not the speed of the burn that I care about, it's the cpu usage. When I burn via scsi I can do all the things I normally do without interference. When I burn via ide my other system becomes a little sluggish and I do get concerned about creating a coaster (never happened though). This is with using a scsi yamaha 8x4x32 and an ide yamaha 16x10x40.

I don't notice a huge difference with hard disk speed but that's probably because I'm using 7200 rpm scsi drives.

If I had only one system, I would get ide hard drives and a scsi cdrom/cdrw.
 

MrSharky

Member
Jan 17, 2001
167
0
0
ALL SCSI BABY.. don't ask me why I just love it...



my scsi hardware:
-----------------------
18Gb SCSI2
Yamaha 16/10/40S CDRW
Kenwood 52X TrueX
 

bonkers325

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
13,076
1
0
people i started it and ill end it

scsi is and will be superior to ide because of many facts

1 is multitask

2 is low cpu usage

3 is that u can daisy chain

blah blah blah blah


SO SHUT YOUR HOLES PEOPLE :|

IF U WANT TO FIGHT IT OUT COME ON DOWN IDE FOOL ;)
 

Radboy

Golden Member
Oct 11, 1999
1,812
0
0
Never ceases to surprise me how much spirited debate the SCSI vs IDE issue always seems to generate. I have first-hand experience with both, and subscribe to the *hybrid* model - a single, small SCSI drive for the OS, apps & swap/page file, and multiple, monster IDE drives for cheap mass storage .. taking advantage of the best of both worlds.

SCSI's primary advantages are two-fold:

1. Multitasking. (IDE is a single-tasking interface)
2. Blazing fast seek/access times .. the most important factor in disk-based system performance ..

.. as low as 3.9/5.9ms, compared to 8.5/12.7 for the fastest IDE drives. Storagereview talks about the importance of access times on system perf HERE, where they say this:

STR had relatively little effect upon overall drive performance. Today, it should be clear that steadily-increasing transfer rates have in effect "written themselves out" of the performance equation ... it should be clear that random access time is vastly more important than sequential transfer rate when it comes to typical disk performance. Thus, the reordered "hierarchy" of important quantifiable specs would read:

1. Seek Time
2. Spindle Speed
3. Buffer Size
4. Data Density

and also HERE, where they say this:

"...it's evident that random access dominates typical workstation usage ... Though the loading of executables, DLLs, and other libraries are at first a sequential process, subsequent accesses are random in nature. Though the files themselves might be relatively large, parts of them are constantly being sent to and retrieved from the swapfile. Swapfile accesses, terribly fragmented in nature, are quite random. Executables call other necessary files such as images, sounds, etc. These files, though they may represent large sequential accesses, consist of a very small percentage of access when compared to the constant swapping that occurs with most system files. Combined with the natural fragmentation that plagues the disks of all but the most dedicated defragmenters, these factors clearly indicate that erring on the side of randomness would be preferred." End paste.

A 3rd advantage is that SCSI drives are also more *reliable*, with longer MTBF specs and warrantees, which is a big factor for me. I've never had a SCSI drive die, and only one IDE drive, and that was a laptop drive, after I dropped the thing a few times.

The good thing is that you don't need very much space to run an OS, apps & swap/page file .. even if you dual-boot. 9GBs is more than enough to run both W2K, WinME, and even a distro or two of Linux. A 10Krpm 9GB drive can be had for as little as $209 here. (Free shipping with THIS deal)

.. prolly less if you shop around. Less than the price of many gfx cards, and the drive will certainly last longer than any gfx card purchased today. Longevity adds to value. Only with SCSI can you get performance that looks anything like this.

For me, SCSI had great 'Wow' factor. Upgrading to 10Krpm LVD SCSI from 7200rpm IDE was similar to upgrading to a cable modem from dial-up & to my first-ever 3D gfx accelerator (V2) were the only other things that made me say, "Wow." Anybody recall how much better online gaming was after upgrading to a cable modem? That's similar to how it is upgrading to a SCSI boot drive.

But SCSI definitely isn't for everyone. If all you do is play games, email & surf the web, you're wasting your money on SCSI. And it can be challenging for some to set up a SCSI subsystem. Certainly not for the novice.

The SCSI vs IDE debate has raged at the Storagereview for years. The 100+ post mother-of-all SCSI vs IDE threads is HERE .. for those who wanna look at the question a little more closely.
 

Jgtdragon

Diamond Member
May 15, 2000
3,816
19
81
I am gonna go mix as well.
Got a scsi U160 10k rpm Harddrive with a controller as my storage. Cd-wr and CD-rpm will be IDE. Seems opposite of many people here, but just like the faster access time and the reliablity.
 

borealiss

Senior member
Jun 23, 2000
913
0
0
i have 1 ide dvdrom, my 2 hard drives are scsi and so is my burner. why? expandability, speed, reliability, diversity in components.

//edit
name any eide drives with a 5 year warranty and compare that number to the amount of scsi drives that have them also.
 

Rand

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
11,071
1
81
All IDE system, for matters of price. I simply don't have the money to make SCSI a reasonable option.
 

thorin

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
7,573
0
0
"By that same whitepaper it will be halfway thru 2002 before we see any large volume of devices supporting it."

1.5 years isn't that long a time, these drives and interfaces were demo'd last fall at one of Intel's conferences/forums.

"And even then, the drives running on it will barely be able to reach the level of ATA66 speed."

Where does it say that in the whitepaper?
Lets do the math. The bandwidth of the bus is 1.5gbps first gen. That's 187.5MB/s, so if you somehow manage to have 4 drives accessing the bus at the same instant (which can't be done in today's IDE configuration) that's 46.875MB/s bandwidth for each drive. No drive has ever pushed 66MB/s even on a ATA100 bus. It may burst at 66MB/s but never sustain it.

The current top on the StorageReview LeaderBoard "IBM Deskstar 75GXP" (45GB and 75GB Models) maxes at ~37MB/s sustained. For their next generation the 60GXP IBM is hoping to make 40MB/s. So you can be sure that in a year when IBM/Quantum/Maxtor/etc release their drives they will be running at & past ~47MB/s (since they will have 187.5MB/s possible with less activity ont he bus).

"Also, I don't see anything on that white paper that addresses the growing desire for IDE RAID solutions."

You don't honestly think they aren't considering this need, do you? Even if they aren't addressing it. Does it really matter? The main reason people change to IDE RAID is to increase speed (see numerous previous points on Serial ATA Speed). And secondly to increase fault tolerence, which I agree is a good thing to do, but seriously does the majority of the computer community have use for IDE RAID (SerialATA or ATA). No not really. Lastly how long did IDE exists before IDE RAID cards came out....ages upon ages. I do see your point but reading one paper that doesn't mention it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. It is a growing markey (IDE RAID) and I'm sure they're considering it.

Thorin
 

thorin

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
7,573
0
0
"scsi is and will be superior to ide because of many facts

1 is multitask
2 is low cpu usage
3 is that u can daisy chain"

Wow u described SerialATA :)

Thorin
 

thorin

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
7,573
0
0
"oh yeah, add backwards compatibility in favor of scsi too "

Wow something else SerialATA is bringing to the arena.

Thorin
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
<<I currently have both in my rig. I know that IDE has come along way when it comes to CD-RWs, but I can be burning CD to CD-RW and be playing a DVD and playing games and surfing the Web without having to worry about CPU utlizations. SCSi still uses the CPU cycles a lot less than IDE. That's the reason I have both.>>

How the hell do you play a game and watch a DVD at the same time? Do your eyes multitask?
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,127
0
0


<< WHAT!! You call $400 &quot;budget&quot; and &quot;cheap&quot; >>

I was being somewhat facetious.:) What I meant was that if you have a need for the low seek times of SCSI (such as non-linear video editing, not burning/playing games/hosting/whacking it as many people here think ;)), $400 isn't too much to pay. Gamers justify spending $400 on a video card (I think it's a complete waste, because I mostly play Starcraft and AOE 2), people who need low seek times justify spending $400 on a hard drive.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< How the hell do you play a game and watch a DVD at the same time? Do your eyes multitask? >>


THAT'S WHAT I'M SCREAMIN'!!! :)
 

Zorn

Senior member
Jan 9, 2000
360
0
0
SCSIDE all the way! I run win2k on an MSI k7tPro-A. Thanks to that 686B southbridge and the VIA busmaster drivers, I'm running SCSI devices on an IDE budget. Woo hoo!
 

PCResources

Banned
Oct 4, 2000
2,499
0
0
I use all SCSI, because the most reliable drives and controller cards are SCSI... And there is a difference in speed, and more importantly, in CPU usage!

I am currently running 8 disk on two four-channel cards, PCI64/66 on one and PCI64/33 on the other, just to get them to use different buses. The setup is RAID5 on all disks, and it IS fast...

I love it when i start to copy really big files, and the CPU usage stays low, and those big, very big files don't take many seconds to copy...

I also have a DVD-RAM and a CDR, these are also connected to a SCSI interface, which allows me to use the computer for almost anything when i'm burning. If you ask me, SCSI is expensive, but SCSI is king...

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< Thanks to that 686B southbridge and the VIA busmaster drivers, I'm running SCSI devices on an IDE budget. Woo hoo! >>


ROTF!!!! :D
 

SCUBA

Senior member
Jul 21, 2000
555
0
0
Iv been reading this hard ware book and it says that if you got an IDE CD rom and an IDE CD WR you could have some problems so it better to buy an scsi cd wr


but fu ck that i mean that dont worth the monay ;)


 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91


<< I am currently running 8 disk on two four-channel cards, PCI64/66 on one and PCI64/33 on the other, just to get them to use different buses. The setup is RAID5 on all disks, and it IS fast...

I love it when i start to copy really big files, and the CPU usage stays low, and those big, very big files don't take many seconds to copy...

I also have a DVD-RAM and a CDR, these are also connected to a SCSI interface, which allows me to use the computer for almost anything when i'm burning. If you ask me, SCSI is expensive, but SCSI is king...
>>


Not everyone is that rich or that lucky;)