This will be... fun.

[Cerb]

The universe was created out of something that was already there. We still haven't fully figured out our fourth dimension, much less figure out their construction!

 

[Literati]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Precisely. You honestly do not have the necessary background to have a meaningful discussion. Saying things like "I dont believe in the big bang", is something only the most absolutely ignorant person in the world would say. Youre like a little leaguer who thinks he can play with the big boys, and when you get laughed at, you go on crying to yourself how we're scared because youre not being taken seriously.

Instead of trying to have a debate, you should be trying to learn something. But you think you know it all already. Its not the fact that you dont know anything thats so irritating, its your arrogance. Like youre constant need to say someone has won. You can cry up and down how you dont want to to be a flame war, but every single sentence you write betrays that notion.

Since I'm arguing with a child, I might as well use the most effective method of defense that I know:

I'm rubber, and youre glue, whatever you say, bounces off of me, and sticks to you.

Oh this is rich.

And this has what to do with the discussion?

You're just sitting back talking about how unqualified I am to discuss this, my level of dedication to the understanding of something of this nature, my ability to comprehend etc.

You in fact, are doing nothing but talking about me.

Anyways...

DrPizza that was an interesting post.

I'll be sure to return to it when I get back from work.

 

[Literati]

Ok back for a second.

I had a short shift, and now I'm going to be leaving for school in a minute. A college in which, as crazy as this sounds, offers a degree in Business Administration, but strangely enough doesn't require a course on the possible origins of the universe to obtain it... wierd... they seem so closely related!

Anyways. I'd like to thank BD2003 for selfless sacrificing himself for the good of ATOT to anti-troll an alleged troll (me), and to do nothing but completely troll me in order to prevent a flame war full of trolls! That is truely a move of nobility. So if ATOT could acknowledge his existance and the huge sacrifices he made in this thread for the good of the forum that'd be great...

DrPizza!

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I guess, then, the problem is what constitutes "proof."
Philosophically speaking, I suppose there is no such thing as proof, or absolute certainty.

Has there ever been "proof" that the earth is round? Well, any nut case could make the argument that it hasn't been proven, and throw up alternate crackpot theory after theory. But, we know, well beyond any reasonable doubt that the earth is, in fact, round.

I follow...

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Quantum mechanics has been tested by many many many experiments, all of which have verified the theories to an incredible degree of accuracy. I could probably use the word "proof" here.

Now, for the formation of the big bang, there are multiple competing hypotheses which explain how it first happened. One example is that it was caused by the collision of two other higher dimensional universes. (imagine you live in a 2-dimensional world - a piece of paper. Two spheres, which you cannot even conceive of, collide. The intersection of these two spheres is a circle, which, however, you would be able to observe. That's close enough to the basic idea) Others have hypothesized that our universe is like a bubble growing on the side of another universe. There are a number of various competing hypothesis. However, the physicists and mathematicians who suggest these theories go a step further... actually, a HUGE step further. They are able to run models and do tons and tons of calculations. Thus, they are able to state "if our idea is correct, then when we run this completely new experiment, results have never been seen before by man, the results will be 42." There is an experiment being designed (or perhaps it's beyond the design stage) in which 3 satellites will orbit the sun. Using lasers and a system of mirrors, these satellites will be able to (hopefully) detect gravity waves. And, more importantly, they will be able to detect gravity waves left over from the big bang.

Wow, that is fantastic stuff. (Seriously)

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Now, I'm going to switch to laymen's terms. Let's simply say that they are looking for waves on a lake that have never before been observed. If Bob's hypothesis is correct, then the waves will be 3 feet high and 6 feet apart. If Steve's hypothesis is correct, then the waves will be 4 feet high and 5 feet apart. Well, that leaves out a critical part of it... it allows for what may be considered coincidence. Suppose Steve says that "according to my calculations, if my hypothesis is correct, then we will see waves that are 4.022357 feet high and 5.122079 feet apart.

Now, lets suppose the experiment is run and the waves are 4.022357 feet high and 5.122079 feet apart. Scientists would conclude that Bob's hypothesis is incorrect and that Steve's hypothesis is correct.

Would you consider this "proof" or would you state that Steve just had a lucky guess?

Proof enough for me! (Although it is not yet known to be an absolute truth)

But honestly yes, I understand and I would consider this proof.

Originally posted by: DrPizza
That's what part of the problem is. What constitutes proof. But, in the case of quantum mechanics, there are dozens and dozens of such experiments, all which match predictions to incredible degrees of accuracy. This includes the prediction of particles that pop into and out of existence.

Solid State electronics use the principles of particles that pop into and out of existence. I suppose, if you want, you can say "no one proved how they really work. My theory is that God did it."

If you want to make an even bigger dent in what we know, but don't know, you could say, "You electrical engineers are teh dumb. I say that there's no such thing as the square root of negative one. Therefore, you're not allowed to use it or any other imaginary numbers in your calculations. And, any electrical engineering calculations which include the square root of negative one in the calculations are therefore bogus."

The truth is, many of the "theories" in science are considered as facts. They're just called theories. Well, then again, I have a theory of intelligent falling.

Wow I'm extremely impressed. You explained all of the pretty objectively and actually very well.

Although I do not have the background, or according to several people on ATOT, the intelligence required to investigate and understand this stuff a degree I'm trying because I'm genuinely interested.

My time is pretty limited also as to exactly what I can and can't take the time to research. But I'm starting with a video series called "Mechanical Universe" and although I won't be making a career out of this, I will be making it a point of study as I just feel like there are things that I should know and understand to a certain degree, this being one of them.

People think I troll because I'm a light hearted dude. I like to "make funnies" even if I'm the only one who laughs at them. *shrug*

But sincerely, I thank you for participating and actually taking the time to objectively explain some of the things you have learned to mere forum fools such as myself.

:beer::wine: for you.

 

[djheater]

When we reach a degree of spiritual advancement where the answer is irrelevant, we'll have REALLY acomplished something. Till then it's all just a fart in the wind IMO.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Literati
People think I troll because I'm a light hearted dude. I like to "make funnies" even if I'm the only one who laughs at them. *shrug*

I dunno, the commentary in the Roommate + No TP thread nearly killed me.

- M4H