This should spark some interest....Beware of Hillary Clinton and the ''Common Good'' Ruse

[arsbanned]

I'm behind her 100%. I pay a lot of taxes and would be willing to pay more, especially if the focus of the government switches from being "WE MUST DEVELOP AND PRODUCE MORE WEAPONS!!!" to "Hey, how about some national health care, reasonable education funding; hey, let's help our own before sending Israel billions to buy more weaponry....."

 

[crazycarl]

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: crazycarl
by the way guys, be on the lookout for these dangerous socialists!

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [/qoute]

yes, but what about those middle income people carl who live in high cost of living areas who will only be hurt by higher taxes? how do tax increases help people like myself and my wife?

"...my thoughts are to heck with them "

Zephyr

classic

 

[IndieSnob]

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: crazycarl
by the way guys, be on the lookout for these dangerous socialists!

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [/qoute]

yes, but what about those middle income people carl who live in high cost of living areas who will only be hurt by higher taxes? how do tax increases help people like myself and my wife?

"...my thoughts are to heck with them "

Zephyr

Thanks, I was sure he said that, but couldn't recall. Sucks to have your own selfishness thrown right back in your face.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: crazycarl
by the way guys, be on the lookout for these dangerous socialists!

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [/qoute]

yes, but what about those middle income people carl who live in high cost of living areas who will only be hurt by higher taxes? how do tax increases help people like myself and my wife?

"...my thoughts are to heck with them "

Zephyr

PWN3D!!

 

[Train]

Funny how the topic shifts, I didnt say anything about wether or not you THINK rich peole should pay a higher % of taxes or not. All i stated was that "the tax cuts for the rich" is a common lie, since I showed in the numbers above that the tax cuts affected ALL tax brackets, and even made a new, LOWER tax bracket at the bottom.

I also pointed out that the deduction for dependent children DOUBLED under the bush tax cut.

 

[nealh]

I am continually amazed at how people are complaining the tax cuts only help the wealthy...or they got more etc...

1. the gov't does not need more of my money to waste..the govt currently takes in more money than at any other point in history..yes inflation does make this less significant but the waste is enormous. Remember deficits are not just created by a president..the actually spending is done by congress...

it would be nice to see them reduce wasteful handouts,stupid pet projects...if taxes go up who will benefit..do you think you are going to get national healthcare that works ...I would bet anything it would suck to no end....better education spending..nope doubt that will happen ..was education spending better with Clinton..doubt it

2. When "wealthy" people have more money...many will spend more freely....cars, house, trips, clothes, investment..this drives the economy for everyone..more jobs better corporate performance

BTW what is defined as wealthy ...I bet if a democrat is elected taxes will go up for everyone....if not I will happily eat my words ....

I for one have spent much more in the last year than usually.....if my taxes go up..I will tighten my spending..not my savings..so that means less $$ into retail channels...

No I did not make the economy improve alone..but if $$$ is out my hand and others you can bet we will see less retail performance and overtime by the end of a democratic term...a downturn in the economy

Remember anything that happens to the economy takes time to see its effect.....So all the blame for the poor economy on Bush is plan incorrect...the recession was starting in last yr of the Clinton Admin

What I wish for, was a real 3rd party alternative..enough of the 2 party system where nothing gets done for the good of the country(in general)...I would love to see a real candidate that is willing to make positive things happen without protecting the democratic/republican interests

Congress is so bloated with career politicans nothing gets done..period

Unfortunately, until a real 3rd choice is out there nothing will ever really change..same crap all the time..BS promises that never really happen

 

[jackschmittusa]

I for one, have little interest in what Hillary has to say. My opinion of her is in the same ballpark as my opinion of Bush.

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: nealh
2. When "wealthy" people have more money...many will spend more freely....cars, house, trips, clothes, investment..this drives the economy for everyone..more jobs better corporate performance

Supply-side, trickle-down economics have never worked.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: sapiens74
No one can escape the fact that when the federal government uses those tax dollars they are inefficient at best, incompetant at worst. When the American people have those same tax dollars they put it to much better use.

The goverment may not get the best bang for the buck but that doesn't mean goverment spending has less of an effect on the economy then so rich person.

Which do you think will have more effect on the economy the goverment spending x money paving roads or the rich guy spending X amount of money on some imported car.

 

[nealh]

I really doubt having more $$ in peoples hands leads to a true tri down theory....when was the last time a democrat did not raise taxes across the board but just for the so called rich....

BTW if these taxcuts are so bad..please explain why the economy is beginning to move strongly now...and not say 2 yrs ago before we saw them...I am not going to say the taxcuts are the only reason but it has helped improve our economy

Govt spending on roads and the like is a great way to help the economy ..no issue there but my problem is with the BS crap and pure wasteful handouts we see all the time...for each use of money we all see wasteful worthless use of money

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: bozack

The Bush tax cuts enabled America to climb out of the Clinton recession

Ah see, you lost me already after the first lie. Nice try though sport, keep playing.

:roll:

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: nealh
I really doubt having more $$ in peoples hands leads to a true tri down theory....when was the last time a democrat did not raise taxes across the board but just for the so called rich....

Clinton?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: crazycarl
by the way guys, be on the lookout for these dangerous socialists!

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [/qoute]

yes, but what about those middle income people carl who live in high cost of living areas who will only be hurt by higher taxes? how do tax increases help people like myself and my wife?

"...my thoughts are to heck with them "

Zephyr

PWN3D!!

So basically you are in favor of screwing over yourself? makes sense. Owned my ass conjur, nice try though...you hypocrit libs are owning yourself as heck I am a conservative, you all are supposed to be for the middle class, but here you have a moron like Zephyr saying basically "screw them", oh I am sorry he is quoting me, but the idiot didn't even take the time to post a serious response, and your not much brighter either as you just agreed with him...what a bunch of retards.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: crazycarl


classic

again carl, unless you are in the upper middle or live a truly comfortable lifestyle then basically you are in favor of effing yourself as these tax cuts help you as well...my quote was aimed at those who make virtually nothing and do nothing to make more, much like Dave and Co who would rather bitch about the econ and the market than try and do something more...but again screw them anyway...but if your taking my viewpoint then aren't you being very hypocritical as I always thought you wacko libs were for the common man??

 

[nealh]

[/quote]Supply-side, trickle-down economics have never worked.[/quote]

I am not sure I buy (LOL) this statement....if your talking trickle from the super rich..yes but the upper middle, upper class....I bet has a big impact on our economy...these people will spend more in many ways ...which will improve things

BTW if you cut taxes on lower incomes without other brackets..you will only get a small influx of $$ into the economy and little benefit..

I am not suggesting not to provide relief for those who earn the least..they need more help than the other brackets and I do believe they should pay a smaller amount than others...they need ameans to live ...I would rather they pay little keep their jobs and not be on welfare etc which is a big drag on resources

Not mention anybody who feels they are doing ok..will be happy and more productive part of society..having poor sense of worth regarding you ability to earn is not good for anybody..builds resentment and big problems

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Zephyr106

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: crazycarl
by the way guys, be on the lookout for these dangerous socialists!

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. [/qoute]

yes, but what about those middle income people carl who live in high cost of living areas who will only be hurt by higher taxes? how do tax increases help people like myself and my wife?

"...my thoughts are to heck with them "

Zephyr

PWN3D!!

So basically you are in favor of screwing over yourself? makes sense. Owned my ass conjur, nice try though...you hypocrit libs are owning yourself as heck I am a conservative, you all are supposed to be for the middle class, but here you have a moron like Zephyr saying basically "screw them", oh I am sorry he is quoting me, but the idiot didn't even take the time to post a serious response, and your not much brighter either as you just agreed with him...what a bunch of retards.

LOL!!

You can wipe the froth from your mouth now.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: nealh
I really doubt having more $$ in peoples hands leads to a true tri down theory....when was the last time a democrat did not raise taxes across the board but just for the so called rich....

BTW if these taxcuts are so bad..please explain why the economy is beginning to move strongly now...and not say 2 yrs ago before we saw them...I am not going to say the taxcuts are the only reason but it has helped improve our economy

Govt spending on roads and the like is a great way to help the economy ..no issue there but my problem is with the BS crap and pure wasteful handouts we see all the time...for each use of money we all see wasteful worthless use of money

And those trickle-down economics worked so well under the deficit-spiraling years of Reagan/Bush.

:roll:


Yes, spending needs to be curtailed. Esp. hundreds of billions spent on unjustified invasions.


Oh, and if the tax cuts were so successful, why is the deficit still growing dramatically? Could it be because they didn't work and only hurt? By jove, I think that's it!

 

[nealh]

where did I ever say a taxcut was going to lower deficit spending...if the congress spends more than they collect in taxes the deficit will grow...hmm maybe our congress is at fault as well...

I have not seen anyone up at Capitol Hill putting forth measures that curtail the handouts, crap spending on pet projects for there lobbyists, etc...

In order to solve our govt spending issues you need the right president with a fiscally responsible congress...so many bills add worth sh*t to screw even good intentions..too many people want a pice of the pie

BTW..I do not think the Iraq war cost 100's of billions of $$$$$.....

While I do not agree with the moronic post war plan for Iraq...what were they thinking...no way to rebuild infastructure etc..of course there was going to be a big backlash...I can believe this was not thought out better...but I am very happy to see that murderous lunatic gone and out of power

The Iraqi people will hopefuly in the end be better off when the infrastructure is rebuilt and a more moderate govt is in place....at least I truly hope for there suffering..not from the war but Saddam long standing tyrannically regimen

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: Train
heres an interesting tax calculator:

http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

lets you compare how much you would pay in different years, adjusted for inflation. With my income ill pay approx $800 less this year than i did in 2000.

From 2000 to 2002 most brackets dropped by one percent, and there was a new low bracket added for the "lucky duckies" at the very bottom. In 2003 most brackets got an additional cut of two percent with a special gift for the "other" lucky duckies, the ones at the top. But note that the rich still paid more in 2003, and everybody else paid less, than was the case in 1992. Now if we could just balance the budget...

well that extra $15 dollars a week barely ofset rises in energy costs, healthcare costs, and milk.

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: nealh
2. When "wealthy" people have more money...many will spend more freely....cars, house, trips, clothes, investment..this drives the economy for everyone..more jobs better corporate performance

Supply-side, trickle-down economics have never worked.

you want to tell that to the current generation of spenders? home improvement is up because people have more money to spend. theyre buying more expensive items [real granite counter tops instead of wood with a melamine top simulated to look like granite] because they have cash to blow.

when your disposable income source goes up, youll usually buy more frivolous items, or items that are more costly in general [more expensive top of the line computer parts instead of run of the mill main stream parts for example]

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: conjur

LOL!!

You can wipe the froth from your mouth now.

Sorry, having a really bad week so far and net personalities are really trying my patience both here and elsewhere...

 

[conjur]

Hey...we just had a holiday.

Settle down and drink a couple :beer:s

 

[SViscusi]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: SViscusi

Originally posted by: nealh
2. When "wealthy" people have more money...many will spend more freely....cars, house, trips, clothes, investment..this drives the economy for everyone..more jobs better corporate performance

Supply-side, trickle-down economics have never worked.

you want to tell that to the current generation of spenders? home improvement is up because people have more money to spend. theyre buying more expensive items [real granite counter tops instead of wood with a melamine top simulated to look like granite] because they have cash to blow.

What I'd like to tell the current generation of spenders, is to stop f-ing spending, then I'd reccomend them a good bankruptcy laywer since personal bankrupcies are at an all time high as is personal debt.

when your disposable income source goes up, youll usually buy more frivolous items, or items that are more costly in general [more expensive top of the line computer parts instead of run of the mill main stream parts for example]

You're not getting what Trickle down economics really is. It's the cutting of the tax rate for the top bracket. It doesn't apply to you statement because those who get the benifit are already at their spending limits. If they wanted to spend more, they would. In the end all trickle down economics ends up doing is increasing debt and increasing income disparity.

 

[nealh]

You're not getting what Trickle down economics really is. It's the cutting of the tax rate for the top bracket. It doesn't apply to you statement because those who get the benifit are already at their spending limits. If they wanted to spend more, they would. In the end all trickle down economics ends up doing is increasing debt and increasing income disparity.

I disagree if this were true, how would this increase debit..are you saying by cutting taxes for the "rich" makes lower income people spend more and increase their debit???...People need to learn to save first and spend later...

I pay bills and then pay myself(ie savings)..then I spend what is left ..often I will increase my savings if I can too

One has to be responsible....you should not try to keep up with the Jones..there is always someone who has more better toys...

It doesn't apply to you statement because those who get the benifit are already at their spending limits. If they wanted to spend more, they would.

this makes no sense..if they are at their limit ..why would they spend more ...if they are getting a break they will have more ..right..so there "limit" would change...I dunno ..very confused with this statement

 

[Red Dawn]

Why do some of these Rich Polioticians feel that they should pay more taxes instead of less taxes?