This one goes out to all you Nostradamuses and nVidia fanboys

[Lonyo]

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2166_large_stree_flash.png
Story
Look at the picture.

On AMD's commitment to GPUs: The merger with AMD reinforces ATI's position as the world's best GPU supplier. AMD is absolutely committed to maintaining and extending that leadership. The merger gives access to AMD technologies and resources - for example, custom memory design - which will raise performance and reduce costs, further increasing ATI's competitiveness. Also, AMD has been extraordinarily effective in the channel, and access to their know-how, experience, and network, will be a powerful plus for ATI.

So, all the people who decided to make up news and assume ATi were leaving the graphics card business, what have you got to say?
Thankfully some of use were sane enough not to call time early, and actually use our heads instead of our hearts.

 

[Ulfhednar]

This thread will make Crusader cry.

 

[Cookie Monster]

INQ thinks otherwise.

Nvidia loves the AMD?ATI deal

NVIDIA is really enjoying ATI?s proposed acquisition by AMD. Short term, things could not be better for the green company. As soon as the rumour went around, a bunch of ATI people started to send their CVs to Nvidia.

Nvidia might even get some of the hot shots as few jobs at ATI are certain anymore. You don?t need two sets of accountants and two marketing departments and there have to be some cuts sooner or later, if the deal goes ahead.

According to green sources, Nvidia has already received over a hundred job requests from ATI chaps. The second thing that Nvidia likes is that the uncertainty is likely to delay some of the products. ATI is already late by more than a quarter with its 80 nanometre RV560 and RV570.

The third thing that Nvidia likes, and some chaps close to the company confirmed, is that the SNAP, the partnership between Nvidia and AMD is going to grow even stronger. Nvidia holds the majority of the AMD chipset market and AMD has to respect that. Otherwise it will just hurt itself. AMD has to earn a lot of money and cannot play games and upset companies such as Nvidia, and it won?t.

The next two quarters will be the most difficult ones in AMD?s history as the company has to make money and the Conroe based Core 2 Duo will get cheaper and is a better performer. Long term, we are sure that Nvidia will suffer from the deal, but it will take time until that happens. We think this development might just make Nvidia stronger than ever before. µ

I guess it just depends on people's opinions. There are even rumours of NV pushing AMD to buy ATi.

But this made me curious.

Nvidia has already received over a hundred job requests from ATI chaps

Discuss!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You will always have the chicken littles screaming "the sky is falling!", and the zealots/loyalists proclaiming the nemesis has been vanquished. So, par-for-the-course.

As the 3rd stage guild navigator proclaimed "I see plans within plans."

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
But this made me curious.

Nvidia has already received over a hundred job requests from ATI chaps

A trimming of fat/culling of the herd, if you will, is SOP for a merger. Those "chaps" may already have gotten wind that they were in all probability, on the chopping block.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
INQ thinks

:roll:

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
INQ thinks

:roll:

They have been right before but wrong many times. Take it with a grain of salt

However this AINT specualation. I wonder were they based on their evidence from.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I wonder if Dave of B3D knew this going in, or if he is dangling in the breeze right now?

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I wonder were they based on their evidence from.

Their "sources," a.k.a. the drunken homeless guy who slept next to them on the subway or whatever.

 

[Gstanfor]

Thats an Inquirer rumor and is written by Fraud no less, so I'm extremely skeptical to say the least. If there is any truth at all to this, we should hear something on B3D (where lots of ATi employees post).

Mind you, *if* it turns out to be true and a substantial portion of those applicants are engineers, that doesn't bode well at all for ATi's future.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I wonder were they based on their evidence from.

Their "sources," a.k.a. the drunken homeless guy who slept next to them on the subway or whatever.

In that biz, they aren't above flat out making shat up, if it increases readership.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
I wonder were they based on their evidence from.

Their "sources," a.k.a. the drunken homeless guy who slept next to them on the subway or whatever.

:laugh:

:beer: its all too true..

 

[dgevert]

Any true nVidia fanboy would be happy that ATI is staying in the GPU market. After all, if nVidia has no competition, there'd be no drive for them to keep producing faster and better graphics cards.

The performance war between ATI and nVidia is a win for all [PC] gamers, no matter which side you prefer.

I'm not a fanboy by the way; I currently have a 6800 GT in my old rig, X1900XT in my current rig, and I'm waiting to replace the X1900XT with a 7950GX2, mainly because of a specific issue I have with ATI's drivers in their current state.

 

[Auric]

Jebus, what else do you expect Nvidia to say: "TEH NOES!!!11one1eleven"? The most important thing is the share price. It must be propped up by any means necessary to allow major owners to continue divesting, regardless of the company's future prospects. So yeah, they are gonna declare it as a positive.

Likewise, AMD & ATI are going to try to spin it as positive as possible to the point of suggesting no layoffs which can't be considered anything short of BS. All that new debt will have to be paid down somehow and it ain't just gonna be from "synergies" unless your definition includes "redundancies which may be eliminated". So no doubt there are ATI employees who are looking for work knowing the hammer will drop if the aquisition is completed. Heck, either way the company will be in turmoil and have to find another way to carry on as they have already stated.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Auric
Jebus, what else do you expect Nvidia to say: "TEH NOES!!!11one1eleven"? The most important thing is the share price. It must be propped up by any means necessary to allow major owners to continue divesting, regardless of the company's future prospects. So yeah, they are gonna declare it as a positive.

Likewise, AMD & ATI are going to try to spin it as positive as possible to the point of suggesting no layoffs which can't be considered anything short of BS. All that new debt will have to be paid down somehow and it ain't just gonna be from "synergies" unless your definition includes "redundancies which may be eliminated". So no doubt there are ATI employees who are looking for work knowing the hammer will drop if the aquisition is completed. Heck, either way the company will be in turmoil and have to find another way to carry on as they have already stated.

Quoted for excellence.

 

[sisq0kidd]

Talk about a flamebait thread...

Anyway, of course AMD is going to say that. What did you expect them to say? "We're going to stay in the gpu market only for now, then put all our resources into our cpu's, eventually killing off our high end gpu sector?"

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
I wonder if Dave of B3D knew this going in, or if he is dangling in the breeze right now?

LOL...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: Auric
Jebus, what else do you expect Nvidia to say: "TEH NOES!!!11one1eleven"? The most important thing is the share price. It must be propped up by any means necessary to allow major owners to continue divesting, regardless of the company's future prospects. So yeah, they are gonna declare it as a positive.

Likewise, AMD & ATI are going to try to spin it as positive as possible to the point of suggesting no layoffs which can't be considered anything short of BS. All that new debt will have to be paid down somehow and it ain't just gonna be from "synergies" unless your definition includes "redundancies which may be eliminated". So no doubt there are ATI employees who are looking for work knowing the hammer will drop if the aquisition is completed. Heck, either way the company will be in turmoil and have to find another way to carry on as they have already stated.

Quoted for excellence.

OFT

 

[thilanliyan]

IF it is true that ATI will eventually leave the mid-high end GPU market eventually (several years down the road), the only people that would benefit are people with a financial interest in NVidia(stocks maybe). The only person I saw claiming that the merger was all good was Crusader, which makes me think he does have some financial interest in one of these companies. Even Wreckage and GStanfor to a certain extent realize that only one company making descrete GPUs is not great for consumers. I personally like the very fast development cycle and the eventual price cuts in the GPU arena. CPU development is extremely slow comparitively.

I sincerely hope ATI doesn't leave the high end market or at least that another company (possibly Intel) will make discrete GPUs so us consumers won't be hung out to dry. I also hope the slide posted is not just a means to keep their stock price up. It would be great if ATI has access to AMD resources (especially the fabs) but who knows if that'll ever happen. Even with the merger AMD is a $20billion company while Intel is a $100Billion company (according to a Firingsquad article) so AMD has some catching up to do, and hopefully they don't do it by sacrificing ATI.

Click for a new editorial from 2 Firingsquad authors which is an interesting read.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: sisq0kidd
Talk about a flamebait thread...

Anyway, of course AMD is going to say that. What did you expect them to say? "We're going to stay in the gpu market only for now, then put all our resources into our cpu's, eventually killing off our high end gpu sector?"

Exactly. If AMD came out and said were are going to exit the high end at a later date, that could hurt ATI sales and AMD\ATI stock prices. They will just phase it out over the next few years so as not to upset anything.

I would not expect any changes until at least 2008 and even then the R600 will still be selling. After that.....who knows. Until then we can keep the Red vs Green battle going. Unless Intel decides to f*** ATI over.

Bottom line, if AMD was going to scrap ATI's video card business it would make no sense for them to say that now.

 

[Nelsieus]

You guys (primarily fanATIcs) are being ridiculous. This isn't an ATI-AMD merger where each company gets to maintain their own respective markets, assets, and overall buisness plans, and at the same time unify their development in other areas (the main purpose of the acquisition). This is an ATI buyout - AMD will be aquiring ATI. Thus, it doesn't matter what ATI thinks their plans and hopes are, but moreso what AMD best sees fit. And if AMD doesn't want to remain in the discrete markets, guess what - they'll pull out.

Now, don't get me wrong, my motto is competition = innovation, and thus I'd much rather see atleast two competitng forces in the GPU industry. But I'm not going to sugar-coat things, or turn to incompetant, baseless Fuad or PR ATI FUD to try to make myself believe that, when the truth right now on the matter in uncertain, at best.

nVidia fanboys rejoice and say "ha! no more ATI!" ATI fanATIcs refute by saying "not true, see!" I guess that's going to be the new argument now (I'm starting to miss the more typical "my GPU is better than yours because it's from co. x!")

-Nelsieus

 

[Genx87]

I dont think AMD would destory one of ATI's best product lines for revenue and margins.
But of course I cant read the future either so we can only wait and see.

 

[jlbenedict]

Isn't there a rumor that Intel may up the bid/share for ATI?

Technically speaking, the AMD buyout of ATI isn't "official" per se. ATI would have little resistance, if Intel wanted to "cock block" AMD, and purchase ATI for its own benefit.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: dgevert
Any true nVidia fanboy would be happy that ATI is staying in the GPU market. After all, if nVidia has no competition, there'd be no drive for them to keep producing faster and better graphics cards.

The performance war between ATI and nVidia is a win for all [PC] gamers, no matter which side you prefer.

I'm not a fanboy by the way; I currently have a 6800 GT in my old rig, X1900XT in my current rig, and I'm waiting to replace the X1900XT with a 7950GX2, mainly because of a specific issue I have with ATI's drivers in their current state.

Agreed. This basically put Nvidia in a position to monopolize the market with virtually no competition what so ever. This may be worse than Microsoft since there is no "apple" or "linux" in graphic card market.

 

[BenSkywalker]

From a business perspective- why would AMD continue to push to remain competitive at the top tier of GPUs?

Think about their clearly defined long term goals- integrating the GPU on die with the CPU being the culmination of that. Their long term roadmap calls for elimination of discrete graphics cards relatively soon and eventual elimination of discrete GPUs altogether.

With that in mind- a new GPU generation costs a few hundred million dollars top to bottom. As of now, ATi already has nigh finished their upcoming DX10 part and are well underway for the part following that. Given that the cash outlay is already done with and the short term roadmaps for AMD have nothing in the works to disrupt that I don't think we should expect too much to change in the short term. We will continue to see ATi and nV slugging it out as we have come to expect for some time. After that- from a business persepective- it makes little sense for AMD to continue down that road.

Right now AMD has fairly severe limitations on their ability to produce large enough quantities of the most up to date processors(in terms of fabrication technology). What is happening however is that with each generation their slightly outdated capacity expands significantly. Right now they have quite a bit of nearly useless 130nm fab space going to waste or being utilized for near no margin flash memory. A few years from now they will have an awful lot of 90nm fab space sitting around which could either be utilized for the same next to worthless flash memory production- or they could utilize it to make their intended mobo socket GPUs in something less then cutting edge form. This would reduce overhead, increase their control over the distribution channel and assure them a much faster time to market. They could also reduce the amount of time and money spend on designing new GPUs to bring to the market and take a considerable lead over Intel in terms of a core platform offering clearly superior visual alternatives integrated into a solution that can be obtained from a single supplier for OEMs.

This market- between desktop, consoles, laptops and chipsets- represents the vast majority of ATi's current business. This is where their marketshare comes from, and this is where their real money is made. What purpose would is serve them to spend the additional couple hundred million dollars and utilize an outsource fab to continue to compete in a market that represents less then 5% of the GPU market? Potential ROI is sickeningly low for a company of their size and scope.

This is the reason that Intel took one largely successful swipe and discrete graphics and decided it wasn't worth it.

Just from a business perspective- why would it make sense for ATi to continue to spend what it does in order to try to compete with nVidia for the discrete graphics crown? From an AMD perspective they would rather have the most talented people from the GPU division helping them alter the structure of the CPU to make it more viable for GPU type operations- that only makes sense given their long term goals. I don't see a realistic upside to them sticking with discrete high end graphics beyond the next few years.

This isn't to say that the market will be left all alone for nVidia. It seems to me that Sony would stand to benefit considerably from acquiring them and using them as leverage in numerous different markets(the least important of which would also be discrete PC add in boards).

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
INQ thinks otherwise.

Nvidia loves the AMD?ATI deal

NVIDIA is really enjoying ATI?s proposed acquisition by AMD. Short term, things could not be better for the green company. As soon as the rumour went around, a bunch of ATI people started to send their CVs to Nvidia.

Nvidia might even get some of the hot shots as few jobs at ATI are certain anymore. You don?t need two sets of accountants and two marketing departments and there have to be some cuts sooner or later, if the deal goes ahead.

According to green sources, Nvidia has already received over a hundred job requests from ATI chaps. The second thing that Nvidia likes is that the uncertainty is likely to delay some of the products. ATI is already late by more than a quarter with its 80 nanometre RV560 and RV570.

The third thing that Nvidia likes, and some chaps close to the company confirmed, is that the SNAP, the partnership between Nvidia and AMD is going to grow even stronger. Nvidia holds the majority of the AMD chipset market and AMD has to respect that. Otherwise it will just hurt itself. AMD has to earn a lot of money and cannot play games and upset companies such as Nvidia, and it won?t.

The next two quarters will be the most difficult ones in AMD?s history as the company has to make money and the Conroe based Core 2 Duo will get cheaper and is a better performer. Long term, we are sure that Nvidia will suffer from the deal, but it will take time until that happens. We think this development might just make Nvidia stronger than ever before. µ

I guess it just depends on people's opinions. There are even rumours of NV pushing AMD to buy ATi.

But this made me curious.

Nvidia has already received over a hundred job requests from ATI chaps

Discuss!

Probably a bunch of marketing and low level staff. I doubt any of the top engineers would have any reason to be concerned about their jobs.