This Just In: Everything Causes Cancer!!!

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
As usual, the medical community releases information without explaining how it's the dose that makes the poison. Sure to cause more FUD than ever before.

Hepatitis Viruses, Grilling Added to Cancer Causers List
By DARLENE SUPERVILLE, AP

WASHINGTON (Jan. 31) - The government is adding viruses for the first time to its list of known or suspected causes of cancer, including hepatitis B and C and a third virus that causes sexually transmitted diseases. Lead, X-rays and compounds in grilled meats also are joining the list.

It has been known that the hepatitis viruses can cause liver cancer and that some forms of the sexually transmitted human papillomavirus can cause cervical cancer.

But they were added to the list Monday only after officials decided to go beyond the report's historical focus on the occupational and environmental causes of cancer, said Dr. Christopher Portier, associate director of the National Toxicology Program, which prepared the latest update.

"We felt (the report) needed to be expanded to include other things in our general environment that can cause cancer,'' Portier said.

Dr. Michael Thun, who runs the American Cancer Society's epidemiological program, said adding the viruses was important. "These are human carcinogens and very important carcinogens,'' he said.

The list, which now identifies 246 known or suspected cancer-causing agents, is intended to give people who may or may not be exposed to any of the substances something to think about, he said.

Take X-rays, added to the "known'' category. "This is simply to remind them that when they are making a decision about an X-ray to think about it and talk it over with your physician,'' Portier said.

But the American College of Radiology faulted the addition of X-rays and gamma rays, saying it was misleading and could prompt patients to avoid getting needed care.

"X-rays and gamma rays are not substances that the general public has access or exposure to and do not belong on a list of substances that pose a risk to people in the course of their normal, daily lives,'' Dr. James Borgstede, chairman of the radiology college's board of chancellors, said in a statement.

New to the suspected category are substances that form when meats are cooked or grilled at high temperatures. Studies suggest an increased cancer risk when foods containing them are eaten.

But "does that mean you have to throw out your barbecue grill?'' asked Dr. Elizabeth Whelan, a critic of the list from the American Council on Science and Health, a consumer education group.

She said the "not consumer friendly'' list should include information on the types of exposures and dosages that cause cancer, as well as on the health benefits of some of the substances identified, such as tamoxifen, the breast cancer treatment pill.


Lead, used to make lead-acid storage batteries, ammunition and cable coverings, and lead compounds, used in paint, glass and ceramics, in some cosmetics and as a fuel additive also joined the suspect list.

Portier said other agencies, such as the Environmental Protection Agency and the Food and Drug Administration, are responsible for determining exposure levels, dosages and other issues.

"We think everything on this list is, in fact, relevant to people's daily lives and the public health of the country,'' he said.

The Report on Carcinogens - which federal law requires the health and human services secretary to update every two years - lists 58 "known'' and 188 "reasonably anticipated'' cancer-causing substances.

It was prepared by the National Toxicology Program of the National Institute for Environmental Health Sciences, and was last updated in December 2002.

 

maziwanka

Lifer
Jul 4, 2000
10,415
1
0
it was known that charring is not good for you. however, i do agree that the search for all things that cause cancer is getting out of hand.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0
Oxygen causes blindness in infants. We need to do something! Rally to me to get this dangerous substance outlawed!
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Basically don't burn your meat when you grill and if you do just try to scrape off the black charred parts

BTW when they say Hepatitis does that include cold sores? I forget if thst is Hepatitis C or what, I just know it's a form of Hepatitis
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,982
4,592
126
Everything there was common sense and well known by any educated person to be linked to cancer. Nothing to see here, move on folks.

And often with cancer it is often NOT the dose that matters. In most cases, cancer tends to be more of a statistical game of chance. Suppose you have a 0.1% chance of getting cancer from a certain cause. After one exposure, you could get cancer. Statistically, it is unlikely to happen, but it has been shown to happen.
 

Jpark

Platinum Member
Nov 15, 2003
2,906
0
0
Originally posted by: maziwanka
it was known that charring is not good for you. however, i do agree that the search for all things that cause cancer is getting out of hand.

i've always tried to tell people that charring wasn't good for them, but they never believed me.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
Originally posted by: lozina
Basically don't burn your meat when you grill and if you do just try to scrape off the black charred parts

BTW when they say Hepatitis does that include cold sores? I forget if thst is Hepatitis C or what, I just know it's a form of Hepatitis

No, it's a form of Herpes.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,315
45,694
136
Originally posted by: maziwanka
it was known that charring is not good for you. however, i do agree that the search for all things that cause cancer is getting out of hand.

Anyone that cooks meats until well done (i.e. burnt to a tasteless smoldering cinder) deserves whatever they get.

:frown:
 

CraigRT

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
31,440
5
0
Originally posted by: maziwanka
it was known that charring is not good for you. however, i do agree that the search for all things that cause cancer is getting out of hand.

yeah, i agree, i don't care about this type of crap anymore... stuff people have done for years and years is now proven to cause cancer... whoopty crap! I'm going to carry out my life like normal.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
Originally posted by: dullard
Everything there was common sense and well known by any educated person to be linked to cancer. Nothing to see here, move on folks.

And often with cancer it is often NOT the dose that matters. In most cases, cancer tends to be more of a statistical game of chance. Suppose you have a 0.1% chance of getting cancer from a certain cause. After one exposure, you could get cancer. Statistically, it is unlikely to happen, but it has been shown to happen.

If you are genetically predisposed to cancer, you're hosed anyhow. For the vast majority, though, it IS the dose that makes the poison when it comes to carcinogens.

If it were not, we would all be dead by our 40s at the latest from auto and truck pollution, not to mention solar radiation.
 

lozina

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
11,711
8
81
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: lozina
Basically don't burn your meat when you grill and if you do just try to scrape off the black charred parts

BTW when they say Hepatitis does that include cold sores? I forget if thst is Hepatitis C or what, I just know it's a form of Hepatitis

No, it's a form of Herpes.

Ah, that's the one! Thanks for the correction :)
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: maziwanka
it was known that charring is not good for you. however, i do agree that the search for all things that cause cancer is getting out of hand.

Anyone that cooks meats until well done (i.e. burnt to a tasteless smoldering cinder) deserves whatever they get.

:frown:

No shit. Might as well serve them an old shoe.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
So now if you eat a steak medium rare, you have to worry about mad cow. If you get it charred, you'll get cancer. Don't eat steak!!!!!! lmao
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
So now if you eat a steak medium rare, you have to worry about mad cow. If you get it charred, you'll get cancer. Don't eat steak!!!!!! lmao

How it's cooked matters not according to the medical community when it comes to Mad Cow (I am skeptical that it is even passed to humans).

According to them a burnt steak can pass it just as easily as a raw one, because cooking does not kill the "proteins" that supposedly cause it.
 

Arkitech

Diamond Member
Apr 13, 2000
8,356
4
76
Who knows what to believe, smoking can cause cancer but I'm sure everyone knows at least one old person who smokes 12 packs a day and has never had major problems.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
Originally posted by: Arkitech
Who knows what to believe, smoking can cause cancer but I'm sure everyone knows at least one old person who smokes 12 packs a day and has never had major problems.

Only 1/3 of smokers ever develop a smoking related disease (this includes, but is not limited to various cancers).
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
So now if you eat a steak medium rare, you have to worry about mad cow. If you get it charred, you'll get cancer. Don't eat steak!!!!!! lmao

How it's cooked matters not according to the medical community when it comes to Mad Cow (I am skeptical that it is even passed to humans).

According to them a burnt steak can pass it just as easily as a raw one, because cooking does not kill the "proteins" that supposedly cause it.
From my understanding, mad cow is passed through uncooked/rare beef.

 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,982
4,592
126
Originally posted by: Amused
If it were not, we would all be dead by our 40s at the latest from auto and truck pollution, not to mention solar radiation.
I think you are under the impression that it is easy to get cancer. In fact, it is quite difficult for a cell to become cancerous.

[*]Cells have a built in self-destruct mechanism. After a given amount of time, or after receiving a signal to die, cells will activate their self-destruct mechanism.

[*]Cells only replicate in certain circumstances at the right time in the cell cycle.

[*]Cancerous cells are cells that are broken in both ways - they won't self destruct and they are stuck in growth mode. You need both to occur within the same cell for it to become cancerous. Typically any one source of potentially cancerous exposure will do one or the other - but in most cases not both.

Thus you could very well be exposed to infinite amounts of one carcinogen and never get cancer. It is difficult to get cancer, we are not ALL going to die in our 40s from these things. But instead, it is the combination of exposure to multiple carcinogens which is the much more rare problem.

Suppose for example, that some of your cells have had their self-destruct mechanism turned off since you are a heavy smoker. These cells can die from other means, and you go on living cancer free (which is why smoking usually DOESN'T lead to cancer). Or maybe, one of those cells gets infected with a virus (whos purpose is to replicate and thus turns your cells into the replicating part of their cell cycle). This one unlucky exposure of the wrong cell to the virus can turn it into a cancerous cell. Yep, the smallest possible dose of one virus RNA/DNA could do it - dose size isn't a necessity. Of course, statistically the cance of those few cells being infected by one virus is small compared to the rest of your normal cells. So a bigger does will statisically make it more likely to get cancer. However, my point is the smallest possible dose could do you in.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
So now if you eat a steak medium rare, you have to worry about mad cow. If you get it charred, you'll get cancer. Don't eat steak!!!!!! lmao

How it's cooked matters not according to the medical community when it comes to Mad Cow (I am skeptical that it is even passed to humans).

According to them a burnt steak can pass it just as easily as a raw one, because cooking does not kill the "proteins" that supposedly cause it.
From my understanding, mad cow is passed through uncooked/rare beef.

Your understanding is incorrect.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,982
4,592
126
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
From my understanding, mad cow is passed through uncooked/rare beef.
Your understanding is incorrect.
I rarely agree with Amused (bad pun intended). However, Amused is mostly correct here. I'm not sure that I agree with much of the mad cow propaganda yet (I'm waiting for more evidence), however I'll regurgitate the best guess that scientists have so far:

Mad cow disease is caused by a protein that is folded in the wrong way (a so called prion). This protein structure encourages nearby normal proteins to also misfold. The result is a bunch of proteins that do not function the way they are supposed to function.

If that is correct, then mad cow disease is not a bacteria or a virus. Things that kill bacteria and virii don't necessarilly damage proteins. Heat is one example. ~150°F is enough to kill most bacteria. However proteins aren't denatured (unfolded) until ~200°F to 250°F. And at the lower temperatures (near 200°F), it takes quite a long time to unfold proteins. So basically, we'd have to cook meat to temperatures well above typical doneness levels to distroy the mad cow prion. The temperatures needed (~250°F) would evaporate virtually all water content and thus the meat would be dry and horrible tasting.

 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
From my understanding, mad cow is passed through uncooked/rare beef.
Your understanding is incorrect.
I rarely agree with Amused (bad pun intended). However, Amused is mostly correct here. I'm not sure that I agree with much of the mad cow propaganda yet (I'm waiting for more evidence), however I'll regurgitate the best guess that scientists have so far:

Mad cow disease is caused by a protein that is folded in the wrong way (a so called prion). This protein structure encourages nearby normal proteins to also misfold. The result is a bunch of proteins that do not function the way they are supposed to function.

If that is correct, then mad cow disease is not a bacteria or a virus. Things that kill bacteria and virii don't necessarilly damage proteins. Heat is one example. ~150°F is enough to kill most bacteria. However proteins aren't denatured (unfolded) until ~200°F to 250°F. And at the lower temperatures (near 200°F), it takes quite a long time to unfold proteins. So basically, we'd have to cook meat to temperatures well above typical doneness levels to distroy the mad cow prion. The temperatures needed (~250°F) would evaporate virtually all water content and thus the meat would be dry and horrible tasting.
Ok, where did you get this information from? I thought mad cow was a virus that ate microscopic holes in your brain, hence the reason why you would eventually go "mad". I think the scientific term was "Spongiform virus". A 28 yr old accountant died from it in NJ a couple years ago, allegedly from eating rare beef. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,240
19,135
146
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Originally posted by: dullard
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
From my understanding, mad cow is passed through uncooked/rare beef.
Your understanding is incorrect.
I rarely agree with Amused (bad pun intended). However, Amused is mostly correct here. I'm not sure that I agree with much of the mad cow propaganda yet (I'm waiting for more evidence), however I'll regurgitate the best guess that scientists have so far:

Mad cow disease is caused by a protein that is folded in the wrong way (a so called prion). This protein structure encourages nearby normal proteins to also misfold. The result is a bunch of proteins that do not function the way they are supposed to function.

If that is correct, then mad cow disease is not a bacteria or a virus. Things that kill bacteria and virii don't necessarilly damage proteins. Heat is one example. ~150°F is enough to kill most bacteria. However proteins aren't denatured (unfolded) until ~200°F to 250°F. And at the lower temperatures (near 200°F), it takes quite a long time to unfold proteins. So basically, we'd have to cook meat to temperatures well above typical doneness levels to distroy the mad cow prion. The temperatures needed (~250°F) would evaporate virtually all water content and thus the meat would be dry and horrible tasting.
Ok, where did you get this information from? I thought mad cow was a virus that ate microscopic holes in your brain, hence the reason why you would eventually go "mad". I think the scientific term was "Spongiform virus". A 28 yr old accountant died from it in NJ a couple years ago, allegedly from eating rare beef. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's never been described as a virus.

You know, everything you ever wanted to know is a google search away.