Discussion This is why retail businesses don't succeed in America without heavy markups..

[MrSquished]

It is bad, and wasn't before, and it does need to be stopped along with all the theft etc. It's a growing issue and a whole topic on it's own. I've joked about running for mayor, but I think I would actually win and that's not really a job I want... but if I did, I would go with the motto Make Timmins Great Again. This used to be a great place but it's being taken over by all the riff raff.

But outside of those factors, quality of life in a small city is still better. Less pollution, more nature, can more easily own property, can live closer to work and not have a ridiculous long commute, etc. I also live in one of the nicer part of town, so only been broken into 3 times. Rural life is even better, as it usually means you're far from all that riff raff as well and can own even bigger land such as farm land, but unlike what most people think I'm not living rural. I'm in a subdivision which is fairly normal small city living. But do have rural property that I still have lot of work to put into before I can live on it.

But at the end of the day this theft and drug issue will continue to spread if nothing is done to stop it, and one of the things that can be done is to give property owners more rights to defend what's theirs.

You are literally stealing decency and basic morality from humanity with every fucking breath you take. Why do you get to get away with that?

 

[brycejones]

Let's see, if you hurt anyone trying to steal, you get charged for assault. This needs to change. Give store owners the power to detain thieves at least, and home owners to do the same. It doesn't need to even result in death. Maybe knocked the fuck out though. Got to make sure they're no longer a threat.

Of course this is not a solution for breakins when nobody is there but they will think twice about that too, wondering if someone may in fact be there. Most of my break ins have been while I was home. One time was the car only, other time was the garage and they left the door wide open all night until I found it that way in the morning, and then the last time was a failed attempt as they couldn't get the door pins out of the door. Weirdly enough they never really took anything that I noticed, I think all times they got spooked and ran off before they had a chance. Any time I hear a noise I check outside so could be I just missed them. They don't all get spooked though, some will see you, give you the finger, and keep stealing. They know you can't do anything as they are highly protected. Could have been much worse. The downtown is MUCH worse. Break ins happen pretty much every night. But it's spreading more. My church got broken into a couple weeks ago and it's in a more secluded area. That's twice now in a couple years. My parents area used to also be very quiet and now it's gotten worse.

And this is a problem everywhere. Big cities are even worse, just look at NYC how they have to put bars and roll down cages over all the storefronts. In Toronto the mayor told people to leave their car keys in an easy to find place because car theft is so bad, and it will save the thieves trouble from rummaging through the whole house looking for the keys. It's gotten completely out of hand everywhere and part of the reason is because they're not putting these scumbags in jail where they belong and not allowing property owners to do anything if they catch them in the act.

None of what you said about property owners being unable to intervene and detain suspected thieves is accurate in the US. Companies may have policies against employees outside of designated store security positions detaining people because of the risks to the employee.

Can you cite cases in Canada to support what you said?

 

[Red Squirrel]

None of what you said about property owners being unable to intervene and detain suspected thieves is accurate in the US. Companies may have policies against employees outside of designated store security positions detaining people because of the risks to the employee.

Can you cite cases in Canada to support what you said?

LMGTFY. That was just a couple results on the first page. These incidents don't always make the news either.

Man who confronted intruder charged

TORONTO — A man escorting his girlfriend to her home Sunday night discovered signs of entry to her house and, fearing for the woman’s mother sleeping inside, search…

nationalpost.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/restaurateur-charged-after-scuffle-with-alleged-thief-1.1256623

Toronto man charged for catching thief has day in court

Wang (David) Chen believes man he's accused of tackling, tying up and confining is same one city vendors say has been stealing from them for years

www.theglobeandmail.com

Toronto man charged for catching thief has day in court

Wang (David) Chen believes man he's accused of tackling, tying up and confining is same one city vendors say has been stealing from them for years

www.theglobeandmail.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/farmer-charged-for-chasing-shooting-thief-1.777802

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/peterborough-robbery-aggravated-assault-1.7079418

This is a problem. The victim is the one that gets in trouble and not the thief. Sometimes the thieves do too, but either way it turns into a can of worms if you try to defend yourself or your property, and it shouldn't be that way.

 

[nakedfrog]

In Toronto the mayor told people to leave their car keys in an easy to find place because car theft is so bad, and it will save the thieves trouble from rummaging through the whole house looking for the keys.

Oh, look, it's Red Squirrel distorting the truth again! Was it the mayor? Survey says... no, it was some random cop!

Leave car keys by the front door to avoid home invasion, Toronto police officer says | Globalnews.ca

The Toronto Police Service issued a statement Wednesday confirming that an officer made the remarks at a recent community meeting.

globalnews.ca

 

[Red Squirrel]

Speaking of the theft issue... this just showed up in my feed. First comment pretty much reflects my views, and many other comments as well.

 

[MrSquished]

It's a shame that shitholes like Timmins are subsidized by more civilized urban dwellers. Why the fuck do urban tax dollars have to go to these rural areas that are majority just the worst people in the world - as we have seen in the last eight years for sure.

 

[akugami]

The people elected Trump to fix that stat. They say he's "good at business." 🤣

FTFY. Removed that extra comma you put in there.

And yes, Trump will fix that stat, with a good ol' Sharpie. If you got enough Sharpies, you can fix any stat!

 

[brycejones]

LMGTFY. That was just a couple results on the first page. These incidents don't always make the news either.

Man who confronted intruder charged

TORONTO — A man escorting his girlfriend to her home Sunday night discovered signs of entry to her house and, fearing for the woman’s mother sleeping inside, search…

nationalpost.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/restaurateur-charged-after-scuffle-with-alleged-thief-1.1256623

Toronto man charged for catching thief has day in court

Wang (David) Chen believes man he's accused of tackling, tying up and confining is same one city vendors say has been stealing from them for years

www.theglobeandmail.com

Toronto man charged for catching thief has day in court

Wang (David) Chen believes man he's accused of tackling, tying up and confining is same one city vendors say has been stealing from them for years

www.theglobeandmail.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/farmer-charged-for-chasing-shooting-thief-1.777802

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/peterborough-robbery-aggravated-assault-1.7079418

This is a problem. The victim is the one that gets in trouble and not the thief. Sometimes the thieves do too, but either way it turns into a can of worms if you try to defend yourself or your property, and it shouldn't be that way.

Some of these cases are very questionable even in the US. Defending yourself in the store? Never going to be a problem. Continuing to chase an attacker down the street? Yeah you might cross a line there. The threat has left your premises, at that point it is the responsibility of the police to deal with the situation.

Lying in wait for someone to come back so can you go after them? Over the line. I noticed most of these cases are pretty old so I assume these are fairly edge cases in Canada.

 

[Brainonska511]

As for the mom & pops, I do commiserate with them, but at this point, they're effectively a dying business. Big corporation has taken over most industries at this point. There are fewer and fewer mom & pops every year. And even then, as someone whose father and brother has opened and operated mom & pop shops, theft is down the list of expenses. Theft may very well affect their bottom line, but things like taxes affect them on a way higher level. But magats think it's A-OK to give a billion dollar corporation a tax break, while the small folks get screwed in the ass. If magats really cared, then stop giving billionaires like Elon Musk tax breaks at the expense of small family owned businesses.

Small mom & pop type shops are probably also hit hard by local code restrictions: minimum store sizes, minimum parking requirements, permitting hoops...

 

[feralkid]

Hotel towel thieves?...Execution without trial!


Someone's son or daughter? Kill the parents as well.

So tired of excusing this lawlessness.

 

[Indus]

I was waiting for a video where race wouldn't be an issue..

What do you think about this??

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868760593005789432

Still wanna BLM this??

Or can we agree Criminal Low Lives SHOULD NOT matter!

 

[Red Squirrel]

He fucked around and found out. Love to see it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I was waiting for a video where race wouldn't be an issue..

What do you think about this??

https://twitter.com/x/status/1868760593005789432

Still wanna BLM this??

Or can we agree Criminal Low Lives SHOULD NOT matter!

This is an extreme authoritarian take, but one you consistently make. BLM has nothing to do with this, it was about the obvious disparity in treatment of minorities by authorities in our country. Viewing people the way you do is unhealthy and unproductive to a society that wants to grow up.

WRT this video - if this guy is knocking shit down in a store and an employee / worker knocks him down and drags him out, I’m generally not gonna feel sympathy. But notice, he’s not dead. A train marine didn’t choke him to death. Reasonable responses, right?

But there’s many instances where employees can be held liable when intervening. Unless I’m the direct store owner, I wouldn’t be going outta my way to help a business, even if I’m employed. It would have to be specified in my employment agreement that you want me to physically stop people from stealing.

You may want to evaluate why you take pleasure in dehumanizing people and seem generally gleeful when there’s violence involved,

 

[brycejones]

This is an extreme authoritarian take, but one you consistently make. BLM has nothing to do with this, it was about the obvious disparity in treatment of minorities by authorities in our country. Viewing people the way you do is unhealthy and unproductive to a society that wants to grow up.

WRT this video - if this guy is knocking shit down in a store and an employee / worker knocks him down and drags him out, I’m generally not gonna feel sympathy. But notice, he’s not dead. A train marine didn’t choke him to death. Reasonable responses, right?

But there’s many instances where employees can be held liable when intervening. Unless I’m the direct store owner, I wouldn’t be going outta my way to help a business, even if I’m employed. It would have to be specified in my employment agreement that you want me to physically stop people from stealing.

You may want to evaluate why you take pleasure in dehumanizing people and seem generally gleeful when there’s violence involved,

Generally companies don't want employees involved because of financial liability if something happens to the employee and they are injured or killed on the job.

 

[cytg111]

It's not a guarantee, but at least we should have the right to do what we can to protect what we work hard for when police can't be there. And if everyone else has that right, it's a matter of time until a thief steals from the wrong store or house and never does it again, that's fine. Right now thieves don't have to worry about getting in trouble with the law or with property owners, they can steal anything any time they want without any repercussions.
Yes it costs money to put people in jail, but that's what jails are for! To get bad people off the streets so that people can feel safe, it's part of why we pay taxes.

The logical consequence of thieves knowing they gonna die if they get caught is that they gonna go for you first. Put you down. Then take your shit.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The logical consequence of thieves knowing they gonna die if they get caught is that they gonna go for you first. Put you down. Then take your shit.

Obviously you would need bigger guns and way more of them, right?

 

[Greenman]

The logical consequence of thieves knowing they gonna die if they get caught is that they gonna go for you first. Put you down. Then take your shit.

That's a depth of thought that most thieves can't achieve.

 

[Indus]

This is an extreme authoritarian take, but one you consistently make. BLM has nothing to do with this, it was about the obvious disparity in treatment of minorities by authorities in our country. Viewing people the way you do is unhealthy and unproductive to a society that wants to grow up.

WRT this video - if this guy is knocking shit down in a store and an employee / worker knocks him down and drags him out, I’m generally not gonna feel sympathy. But notice, he’s not dead. A train marine didn’t choke him to death. Reasonable responses, right?

But there’s many instances where employees can be held liable when intervening. Unless I’m the direct store owner, I wouldn’t be going outta my way to help a business, even if I’m employed. It would have to be specified in my employment agreement that you want me to physically stop people from stealing.

Sheesh so off base.. where to begin.

1. First and foremost you think a white grocery store clerk in a mom and pop store doesn't face theft by white people?? Maybe it doesn't fit the media/ twitter narrative but I'm willing to bet it happens! It's not just the darkies that're bad.

2. Second most people are too afraid to intervene.. for two reasons.. one correctly they might get hurt and second for fear that nut job is actually going to be protected by the police which sadly happens

But the part that really annoys me is if you even go to a mom and pop store.. you see they can't make it work without dramatic retail price increases.. and you just walk out because you don't want to pay those prices.


And the two part you're absolutely right about.. BLM has nothing to do with it. It's low lives that keep committing crimes after they're let out again and again.

And the second part you're right about is they do not need to end up dead like Neely.. just lock em up for good.


We complain about the industrial prison complex but maybe it does do a good job of keeping us safe.

You may want to evaluate why you take pleasure in dehumanizing people and seem generally gleeful when there’s violence involved,

I don't take pleasure in violent videos but I take solace in when the victims actually stand up to the bully! Sometimes violence is necessary that the bullies don't have a monopoly on it!

And what I don't like is progressives always making an excuse for bullies. That's where progressives lose me.

But apparently that makes me authoritarian but I don't want mass criminals running wild stealing stuff from mom and pop stores or catalytic convertors off cars which hurts us a lot more than the Apple Store in the original video.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Sheesh so off base.. where to begin.

1. First and foremost you think a white grocery store clerk in a mom and pop store doesn't face theft by white people?? Maybe it doesn't fit the media/ twitter narrative but I'm willing to bet it happens! It's not just the darkies that're bad.

Why would i think that? You posted the video and referenced BLM.

2. Second most people are too afraid to intervene.. for two reasons.. one correctly they might get hurt and second for fear that nut job is actually going to be protected by the police which sadly happens

People make decisions based on fear mainly. It's not surprising either way, not even sure why you bring this up here, as it seems irrelevant to your original post.

But the part that really annoys me is if you even go to a mom and pop store.. you see they can't make it work without dramatic retail price increases.. and you just walk out because you don't want to pay those prices.

Supply and demand is not really my concern. I pay prices at mom & pop shops when the mood suits. Again, not sure how this is relevant.

And the two part you're absolutely right about.. BLM has nothing to do with it. It's low lives that keep committing crimes after they're let out again and again. then why'd you bring it up?

And the second part you're right about is they do not need to end up dead like Neely.. just lock em up for good.


We complain about the industrial prison complex but maybe it does do a good job of keeping us safe.

Yes, let the authoritarian flow. People commit crimes that you're originally complaining about (theft) mainly out of need, but there's no absolute as we've seen. Should people stealing to eat be locked up forever also? You see, the problem here is that you're ignorantly lumping a bunch of the crimes and criminals in together.

I don't take pleasure in violent videos but I take solace in when the victims actually stand up to the bully! Sometimes violence is necessary that the bullies don't have a monopoly on it!

You absolutely present information here like you're enjoying it. Not all bullies are criminals and not all criminals are bullies, but stereotypes are a real time saver, right?

And what I don't like is progressives always making an excuse for bullies. That's where progressives lose me.

lol, this is the dumbest thing you posted here. The exact opposite of what I see.

But apparently that makes me authoritarian but I don't want mass criminals running wild stealing stuff from mom and pop stores or catalytic convertors off cars which hurts us a lot more than the Apple Store in the original video.

Nice strawman. I deemed you an authoritarian because of you authoritarian attitude displayed on this forum. See below, your attitude is basically do what I say or suffer jail for life or death, dealers choice.

authoritarian​

/ə-thôr″ĭ-târ′ē-ən, ə-thŏr″-, ô-/​

adjective​

1. expecting unquestioning obedience
   insufferably overbearing behavior toward the waiter
2. characteristic of an absolute ruler or absolute rule; having absolute sovereignty
   despotic rulers

noun​

1. a person who behaves in a tyrannical manner

 

[Indus]

You see, the problem here is that you're ignorantly lumping a bunch of the crimes and criminals in together.

Disagree with the rest of your assessment but this part..

I fucking love that part of me. LOVE.. *chef's kiss LOVE*

Even Trump is a career criminal and I don't like him one bit.
Just disliking Neely does not make me bloodthirsty and racist.

I'm consistent on crime.. I don't like it!

 

[ch33zw1z]

Disagree with the rest of your assessment but this part..

I fucking love that part of me. LOVE.. *chef's kiss LOVE*

Even Trump is a career criminal and I don't like him one bit.
Just disliking Neely does not make me bloodthirsty and racist.

I'm consistent on crime.. I don't like it!

Weird reply.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Disagree with the rest of your assessment but this part..

I fucking love that part of me. LOVE.. *chef's kiss LOVE*

Even Trump is a career criminal and I don't like him one bit.
Just disliking Neely does not make me bloodthirsty and racist.

I'm consistent on crime.. I don't like it!

Calm down Javert. Don't become the antagonist in someone else's heroic epic.

 

[Indus]

Weird reply.

Well this is a progressive board.. I get it.. I'm progressive about certain things, but not everything and certainly not willing to turn a blind eye to everything on it.

Calm down Javert. Don't become the antagonist in someone else's heroic epic.

Ooh.. nice reference..

I may not be Javert but I certainly want to catch all criminals and put em behind bars.

Sometimes you can't help being who you are underneath..

 

[ch33zw1z]

Well this is a progressive board.. I get it.. I'm progressive about certain things, but not everything and certainly not willing to turn a blind eye to everything on it.

What do you consider progressive to mean? What would you say you're progressive on?

Ooh.. nice reference..

I may not be Javert but I certainly want to catch all criminals and put em behind bars.

Sometimes you can't help being who you are underneath..

Some introspection can help with your nature nurture dilemma.

 

[Indus]

What do you consider progressive to mean? What would you say you're progressive on?

Healthcare for All

Marriage Equality

Transgender Equality

Socialism for all not just for the billionaires?

Yeah pretty radical progressive stances I know!