This is why Linux will never take over the desktop...

[EXCellR8]

yea, i do like me some Linux but I could never use it regularly, mostly due to software restrictions. everything else is absolutely fine though; i enjoy it for web, design, code, and occasionally indie gaming

 

[Jovec]

Desktop linux blows. Yes, you can make it work. Yes, it can be a decent experience. But it still sucks and always will.

I have a Nvidia 960 in a Ubuntu 16.04 LTS and I've been wanting to pop in a RX480 instead. I power down and swap cards. The system boots up into a low res graphical mode, but crashes upon login and restarts the login manage. I drop to console and purge proprietary nvidia drivers and reboot. Boots up into a low res X session, but I can log in successfully. It's not automatically picking up the open source AMD drivers so eventually I install the proprietary ones. Reboot and it works - mostly. I can't (easily) confirm GPU clocks to ensure it's downclocking successfully because there is no built-in app like Nvidia has, or command line query like firegl had. Bust out the kill-o-watt. It's downclocking but long idle doesn't work so it's wasting ~10w per hour the 23 hours a day I'm not on the system. Switch back to Nvidia. Boot and install drivers again and seems fine. Mistakenly load an OC profile in the bios with Secure Boot, boot into X Login manage, but can't login again as it crashes. Eventually remember that secure boot doesn't work with third party drivers so I change it in the BIOS and now it's back to good.

This is Windows 98 levels of GPU/driver swapping BS. Not to mention the whole 16.04 AMD proprietary/opensource/firegl driver issues. When I was 20 this might have been fun. Now it's 2 hours of wasted time.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah I've found that anything involving a video card change and Linux is pretty much a clean install. I've never gotten it to work. I've gotten going from add-on card to built on to work, but not swapping cards. Iti's evne worse if you go from nvidia to AMD. yes there's probably stuff you can do to make it work but it's probably a huge pain, it's not going to be trivial.

Linux definitely needs work in that department.

I would just be happy with multi monitor support that 1up's Windows. I hate the fact that dialog boxes and windows end up all over the place instead of the monitor it was launched from. it's not rocket science. Windows is terrible for that too, it seems to be a global issue with multi monitor in general. it's like if OSes don't have a context of which monitor a program is currently on or which monitor an action (like opening an icon) was done on.

Suppose part of the issue is the GPU manufacturers also have their heads up their butts about not wanting to release the source code so a better driver can be made.

 

[you2]

Never had this issue; having run a unix based system since 1994 (first freebsd and later linux); switching video cards have never been an issue (last update was switching from r290 to 1070; but most of the time i run light weight video cards - starting with s3 and later voodoo3. Today i have two systems with intel and another with the above 1070). Anyway not sure what issue you are having with graphic cards and linux.
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Hum. I will say that 16.04 is a bit problematic with amd cards due to the switch in drivers (by default). Long story amd released card spec so for amd they are not using open source drivers but the drivers not well written (yet). nvidia still uses nvidia drivers since they won't release full specs.

Yeah I've found that anything involving a video card change and Linux is pretty much a clean install. I've never gotten it to work. I've gotten going from add-on card to built on to work, but not swapping cards. Iti's evne worse if you go from nvidia to AMD. yes there's probably stuff you can do to make it work but it's probably a huge pain, it's not going to be trivial.

Linux definitely needs work in that department.

I would just be happy with multi monitor support that 1up's Windows. I hate the fact that dialog boxes and windows end up all over the place instead of the monitor it was launched from. it's not rocket science. Windows is terrible for that too, it seems to be a global issue with multi monitor in general. it's like if OSes don't have a context of which monitor a program is currently on or which monitor an action (like opening an icon) was done on.

Suppose part of the issue is the GPU manufacturers also have their heads up their butts about not wanting to release the source code so a better driver can be made.

 

[EXCellR8]

I was enjoying the latest iteration of KDE plasma desktop but I eventually removed it. there were some little bugs and visual quirks that I didn't find appealing and I also grew tired of the more free form desktop environment. I thought it was a neat idea at first but honestly I prefer the simpler interface of gnome.

i am also using the open source drivers for the Godavari APU R7 graphics but the performance isn't as good as the amd drivers. i think the open drivers are better suited for discreet GPUs but I couldn't find a ton of information that would help confirm this.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I feel like it's worth mentioning, my employer is a global entity. They've been replacing windows based laptops with Linux based laptops for a few years. Reportedly to save licensing fee's.

Here's the funny part, not all the software required runs on Linux, so they set up a windows vm for people to use.

But hey, it's a start.

I got a son who's a total computer guy at 10 yo, just installed Ubuntu as a dual boot on his computer. Yes, it was easy enough for a 10 yo to do it, with some guidance of course, but only verbal.

So it has gotten easier, but it still takes some time, patients, and some beginner's knowledge.

 

[Jovec]

So it has gotten easier, but it still takes some time, patients, and some beginner's knowledge.

It is certainly easier now.

But some more personal examples: Ubuntu 15.XX+ (iirc) removed a logitech hid module. So when I booted it up with a spare wireless Logitech keyboard/mouse combo, nothing worked. I have other computers that I could use to Google the solution, and had a spare wired keyboard I could use to enable the module. Without those things, I'd be stuck. Another - Nvidia doesn't support the necessary vesa modes for a graphical full disk encryption unlock screen. It boots up, you get the screen, see the password box, but are unable to direct any input to it. You have to disable graphical boot via the Grub config file to get it to work. Nvidia issue to be sure, but that doesn't matter to the end user.

To be fair, setting up FDE (sans /boot) is quite easy, as well as unlocking additional volumes automatically. Certainly no harder than Bitlocker (at least during install - I can't speak to post install on Linux).

 

[pmv]

The biggest problem is with drivers, no? Hardware isn't "open source" so drivers for specialised bits of it are always going to be a problem, it seems to me.

Main thing about Linux, in my not-very-expert opinion, is that it provides a certain 'floor' beneath which commercial OS makers dare not fall. Keeps them on their toes a bit and limits just how much they can take liberties with the user. But I struggle to see it ever 'taking over' the desktop market.

 

[J.Wilkins]

My dad is 77 years old, I switched him from Windows 7 to Linux Mint. Haven't heard a peep out of him about that since.

Everyone in my family is running some variation of Linux. Except for my dad everyone else is running Lubuntu (I'm actually running LXQT on top of Lubuntu just to test it out and it's nice).

Everything I've thrown at these boxes has just worked out of the box, including some obscure USB hardware.

 

[J.Wilkins]

The biggest problem is with drivers, no? Hardware isn't "open source" so drivers for specialised bits of it are always going to be a problem, it seems to me.

Main thing about Linux, in my not-very-expert opinion, is that it provides a certain 'floor' beneath which commercial OS makers dare not fall. Keeps them on their toes a bit and limits just how much they can take liberties with the user. But I struggle to see it ever 'taking over' the desktop market.

Never had problems with any hardware on Linux but then again most of the notebooks/boxes/desktops I've run have fairly standard hardware. Obscure hardware is rarely supported or ONLY supported on Linux these days.

I don't think it'll take over the desktop market anytime soon either and I don't really care either.

 

[Red Squirrel]

For general use, like email, web browsing etc, Linux is pretty much a no brainer. I really think companies need to start adopting it, most corporate tools can be coded to be web based. The biggest mistake lot of companies do is use super proprietary software that locks them on a very specific platform. That's why a lot of companies are still running Windows XP. We recently upgraded to 7 at work (well I guess it's been a few years now, time goes fast these days) and there's still a few VMs and other work arounds that are implemented for some programs.

 

[you2]

Hum. that reminds me my dad is 85 years old. I switched him to linux when windows xp died. He only uses the computer for reading documents (adobe); mail and web access. The thing is that he only read documents (adobe) and email via the browser (don't try explaining to him the distinction). He's had a few issues; but nothing that is linux specific.
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The number one reason some (many?) companies stick with windows is exchange. Exchange is a piece of garbage; at least the email portion; but the calendar function works well enough for those who require it. There are recent alternatives but companies are resistant to switch.

My dad is 77 years old, I switched him from Windows 7 to Linux Mint. Haven't heard a peep out of him about that since.

Everyone in my family is running some variation of Linux. Except for my dad everyone else is running Lubuntu (I'm actually running LXQT on top of Lubuntu just to test it out and it's nice).

Everything I've thrown at these boxes has just worked out of the box, including some obscure USB hardware.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Hum. that reminds me my dad is 85 years old. I switched him to linux when windows xp died. He only uses the computer for reading documents (adobe); mail and web access. The thing is that he only read documents (adobe) and email via the browser (don't try explaining to him the distinction). He's had a few issues; but nothing that is linux specific.
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The number one reason some (many?) companies stick with windows is exchange. Exchange is a piece of garbage; at least the email portion; but the calendar function works well enough for those who require it. There are recent alternatives but companies are resistant to switch.

My dad still runs a business so he uses it for that.

 

[whm1974]

Personally I think that Linux is growing somewhat on the desktop and will continue to do so for a long time. I'm am thinking that it will overtake MacOS on market share, but won't come close to what Windows is.

 

[Gryz]

10 Years from now, everything will be Unix. 20 Years maybe.

Don't forget. All android is Unix underneath. All MacOS is Unix underneath. The majority of servers on the Internet are running Linux. The datacenters of Google and Facebook are all Linux. Lots of small home devices (routers, NASs, VCRs, sat-receivers, streaming devices) are all Unix underneath. ChromeOS laptops run Unix underneath.

There is only one non-Unix OS left, and that is Windows. (Oh, and IBM might have some old stuff, like AS400s or Mainframe OSs). Windows rules on desktop PCs and laptops. But for how long ? I think even Microsoft realizes Unix-like OSs will take over everything. That's why they are switching to services in stead of gambling on the dominance of Windows.

 

[ch33zw1z]

10 Years from now, everything will be Unix. 20 Years maybe.

Don't forget. All android is Unix underneath. All MacOS is Unix underneath. The majority of servers on the Internet are running Linux. The datacenters of Google and Facebook are all Linux. Lots of small home devices (routers, NASs, VCRs, sat-receivers, streaming devices) are all Unix underneath. ChromeOS laptops run Unix underneath.

There is only one non-Unix OS left, and that is Windows. (Oh, and IBM might have some old stuff, like AS400s or Mainframe OSs). Windows rules on desktop PCs and laptops. But for how long ? I think even Microsoft realizes Unix-like OSs will take over everything. That's why they are switching to services in stead of gambling on the dominance of Windows.

Mainframes (called Z systems) can run multiple os's, and Linux runs just fine on it. In fact, a few customers I service report that the IFL's (cpu core called integrated facility for linux) are so damn fast it replaces the need to have x86 server farms.

IBM has released a Linux only version of system Z as well.

Under the covers, aside from as400, everything used to run/manage data center gear is running some variation of *nix

 

[EXCellR8]

that's all fine and good but the thread's geared toward regular desktop users...

 

[Gryz]

that's all fine and good but the thread's geared toward regular desktop users...

I wrote "everything will be Unix". Everything includes regular desktop users.

My point was: almost everything outside regular desktop users is already running Unix. Sure, Windows will not surrender lightly. It might take a decade. Or two. But it is inevitable.

 

[you2]

It would be nice if most things were unix in 10 years but I suspect that less than 15% (ignoring hand devices) will be unix in 10 years.

 

[ch33zw1z]

that's all fine and good but the thread's geared toward regular desktop users...

Yes but my propeller started spinning

 

[R81Z3N1]

What kind of irks me is the fact that Microsoft is promoting running Linux on top of Windows, for me that just runs against the grain. It's nice that folks might get more exposed to Gnu/Linux that way, but just feels so wrong to me!

I personally like the idea of using Windows in a VM, but you really need another license to do that. I know personally, that I don't use much more then 3 or 4 VM's, one of them is for Windows, others are for some protections and off the wall stuff. With containers, do you really need say a LAMP stack anymore.

I like the Qubes, and SmartOS style, load up your distro in say a kernel stump choose what you will use that day, if you don't reboot much use a container, or a VM. Then pass through the GPU, and USB devices that you need, get the metal performance you need.

I do have to agree that almost everything in the future will run on some sort of NIX, or at least the base will. Just look at what is being developed, cloud computing is here and it is nix based. look at the future of HPC, don't see much mainframe usage, everything is moving to machine learning which at the moment wants GPU's. How many GPU's can you hang off a mainframe? Everything is moving to smaller nodes, but more nodes, with AMD EPYC that could really change things, I look forward to the future.

Honestly how many folks know how to use a computer, ask them to use FTP today, ask them to modify or crop a picture to me one of the big problems is actually computer literacy. Ask them how to edit a text file, or even understand the basic's of how wifi works. Would they know how to configure a NIC, or find drivers if it was not included. I was reading about Gnumeric, and noticed they had a section about basic use of a spreadsheet and had like a disclaimer saying in essence that they do not teach basic computer skills.

For me as long as folks lack basic skills, it will never be the year of the Linux desktop, heck won't even be the year of the Mac. You have no idea of how many times I tell people that it's possible to print to PDF or the basic of using a good text file. I don't want to see some stupid video, when a simple paragraph of text like a simple blog post, or a simple readme file is all that is needed.

 

[Ken g6]

What kind of irks me is the fact that Microsoft is promoting running Linux on top of Windows, for me that just runs against the grain. It's nice that folks might get more exposed to Gnu/Linux that way, but just feels so wrong to me!

That's funny. I considered setting up my current machine that way. The major issue, for me, is that you can run an X server on Windows, with Cygwin for example. That allows *NIX programs to appear in Windows just like normal Windows programs. The closest you can get to running Windows programs in Linux is Wine, and that just emulates Windows; it doesn't run them from a real Windows system.

The only reason I didn't set up my current machine this way is that Windows 10 is too intrusive on my privacy.

 

[lxskllr]

That's funny. I considered setting up my current machine that way. The major issue, for me, is that you can run an X server on Windows, with Cygwin for example. That allows *NIX programs to appear in Windows just like normal Windows programs. The closest you can get to running Windows programs in Linux is Wine, and that just emulates Windows; it doesn't run them from a real Windows system.

The only reason I didn't set up my current machine this way is that Windows 10 is too intrusive on my privacy.

That's the thing with libre software. They can take all our good stuff, but it isn't reciprocal. Our 'killer apps' can be ported by anyone with the motivation to do so . Not sure it would substantially change the current landscape if we could keep our stuff to ourselves, but it certainly wouldn't make things better if we could. Without the freedom to do what you want with software, gnu/linux would be just another Windows. One or two(MacOS) is enough.

The linux kernel dominates computing. The only place it doesn't is the classic desktop, and that's ok. It has a healthy presence there, and that's all that's required. I'm happy with what I've got :^)

 

[Red Squirrel]

One thing that would be cool is if someone wrote an open source alternative to Citrix, geared at running windows programs in Linux. Yeah you can do seamless VMs I suppose, but something that is on a central server you setup could be cool and not hog as much resources on your local machine. You also need to turn on/off the VM with your machine.

 

[TeknoBug]

I think FreeBSD supports it out of the box.