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This is why Linux will never take over the desktop...
- Thread starter quikah
- Start date
EXCellR8
Diamond Member
I don't think anyone really expects Linux to take over anything...
I just spent 2 weeks trying to create a simple network share, remote desktop and assign the correct permissions and whatnot; never got it working right. I also couldn't get most of the CLI commands to actually do anything and that was even after I memorized everything I needed to configure. I finally gave up and installed Win7 and I did everything I wanted in less than 40 minutes, including installation.
I like Linux, specifically debian and ubuntu, but I don't think I could use them regularly for anything other than basic tasks and browsing the web.
Bottom line... if Linux wasn't free, my guess is that almost nobody would use it.
I just spent 2 weeks trying to create a simple network share, remote desktop and assign the correct permissions and whatnot; never got it working right. I also couldn't get most of the CLI commands to actually do anything and that was even after I memorized everything I needed to configure. I finally gave up and installed Win7 and I did everything I wanted in less than 40 minutes, including installation.
I like Linux, specifically debian and ubuntu, but I don't think I could use them regularly for anything other than basic tasks and browsing the web.
Bottom line... if Linux wasn't free, my guess is that almost nobody would use it.
lxskllr
No Lifer
If "free" means "libre", you're correct. I use gnu/linux on all my machines, including work, and it does what I want it to do. The cost of an o/s is trivial. The restrictions on proprietary software are expensive.
I think he means free as in gratis. GNU Linux is even less user friendly because operating in a pure libre environment means excluding close sourced drivers and codecs. I'm a huge fan of what GNU Linux represents; however, sometimes you really do get what you pay for, literally as well as figuratively. Linux can do virtually everything Windows can do, but when time = money, you would be surprised out how expensive Linux can actually be in the long run. Licenses and their inherent restrictions are a problem, but they only part of the equation.
I think its great that you work in pure GNU. I've tried it a few times but with more recent hardware its very challenging to get proper support unless you can write the code yourself. I am not a programmer.
None of the things you mentioned not being able to setup for 2 weeks require using the command-line at all in Ubuntu or Linux Mint and it has been that way for several years now.
Ubuntu, out-of-the-box, provides simple sharing and remote desktop setup using nothing but built-in GUI apps and maybe a right-click on the mouse button to access a GUI setup.
At worse, if you want something more advanced than Ubuntu's built-in tools for remote desktop and network sharing you might have to install a program from the "software center" or whatever the GUI-software-install program is called on your particular linux distribution. No CLI is needed at all.
Actually easier to setup than in Windows. Had to get my elderly father to setup remote desktop on his end so I could access his machine. No problem at all.
adamantine.me
Member
If Linux wasn't free then it would probably have a lot more work put into it all around. Just saying
ninaholic37
Golden Member
Your distro probably didn't add it on purpose. What normal user needs that anyway? lol. Slackware 14.2 has curl-7.50.1.
quikah
Diamond Member
Anyone that needs to use software that requires curl with openssl needs it. The error message seemed pretty self explanatory.
ninaholic37
Golden Member
I was calling you abnormal. Thought that was pretty self-explanatory. 😛
John Connor
Lifer
I think Linux has taken over the server world, not so with the desktop world. I mean, if you're running Windows server you're asking for trouble.
StrangerGuy
Diamond Member
It's only free if you disregard the concept that time isn't money.
Azuma Hazuki
Golden Member
Been using it for the last 12 years. Really, it's easier than Windows for most things these days. And honestly most people are clueless on Windows too; my father actually has an easier time on his Debian box than on a Windows machine.
mv2devnull
Golden Member
This.
The big question is, whether a system should be such that the clueless do not notice that they are clueless (and can therefore be harmful to themselves and others)
or such that it requires some rudimentary comprehension.
Nothing is free, but not all methods of payment are trivial to convert to monetary value. For example, what are the current rates of privacy or ethical principles in USD?
John Connor
Lifer
Your father can actually sudo apt-get or wget this and that crap more so than a point and clink executable installer?
I would argue that Windows is more point and click where is Linux isn't very much command line driven. Some like it, others don't.
lxskllr
No Lifer
You could remove the terminal from gnu/linux, and most people would get along just fine. Having it adds power and flexibility, but it isn't required. My mother uses Ubuntu, and she'd have no idea what I was talking about if I told her to open the terminal.
John Connor
Lifer
But if you get rid of terminal then you're left with the package manager.
How do you go about installing things other than what's available in the package manager?
How do you go about installing things other than what's available in the package manager?
lxskllr
No Lifer
apt-get is a package manager for the terminal. You can also use a gui front end like synaptic(which I generally use), or software center(ubuntus's default, and what my mother uses). There's also aptitude for the terminal which is recommended over apt-get, but I've never gotten on with it.
Installing software outside the repos should be the last choice, but most if they're packaged at all will have a .deb available(assuming debian based distros here(.rpm for the other big ones)), and you can use the gui gdebi to install it.
Otherwise, you can compile from source, but that requires the terminal of course. Outside the purview of the n00b, but not hard, and it's nice having the option.
Oh, and there's a few windows-like packages being worked on that package everything together with statically linked dependencies, but I wouldn't like running my system that way. You end up with bloat having multiple package versions installed. I prefer the standard model.
mv2devnull
Golden Member
Aren't there any IDE's that could handle the compile, i.e. recognize the build config within source package as a "project"?
Overall, how likely is it that a "n00b" does need a package that is not offered via a GUI package manager? How far must the spoon-feeding continue?
(Except poorly supported hardware. Counter-example: Windows 10 installer did not have a network driver for a Z170-based board. Since I could not solve that in Windows by "pressing a button", I don't demand that from other OS either.)
lxskllr
No Lifer
I demand the reverse. That's why I don't use windows, and very little proprietary software. "You can't do that" is an unacceptable answer when the limitation is artificial. I don't expect everything to be handed to me(though it usually is), but I expect to be able to fix and modify things if I'm willing to get my hands dirty, or spend some money.
quikah
Diamond Member
I am not complaining about ease of use, it is about fragmentation. Every distro has a certain set of libraries/software, often incompatible with the libraries and software from other distros. Python is anther issue I run into often. A script I need to use requires python 2.4, but the distro I am using only has 2.3. Or when you go to a different distro and need to change the config, but everything is in another place. It just becomes a waste of time.
Ease of use is all relative. Mostly it is just a matter of training and education. You can do everything in any OS relatively easily if you are educated on how to do it in that OS. The only exception is the case sensitive file system in *nix, that is down right user hostile IMO. Creates more problems then it solves (if it solves any).
Ease of use is all relative. Mostly it is just a matter of training and education. You can do everything in any OS relatively easily if you are educated on how to do it in that OS. The only exception is the case sensitive file system in *nix, that is down right user hostile IMO. Creates more problems then it solves (if it solves any).
Azuma Hazuki
Golden Member
My father actually has an easier time with Synaptic (you know, that graphical package manager that's been around for at least 10 years...?) than looking for software for Windows on the 'net. It's all in one place, has its own "search engine," effectively, that ONLY returns relevant results, and oh, no worries about shady s*** getting installed if you download the wrong thing because the webpage has 8 "Download Me!" buttons and 7 lead to something like Slimware or similar malware.
The closest thing in the Windows world is Ninite.com.
The closest thing in the Windows world is Ninite.com.
Torn Mind
Lifer
Linux distro is for savvy nerds with plenty of time to google fu because YOU WILL RUN ACROSS THAT ONE THING THAT JUST WON'T WORK and then it's command line or editing text files or a total idiot who can only open up firefox. You want power management of cpu? Chances are it will not stick upon reboot. You want to setup samba? <redacted> just will not make an accessible share.
The idealists live in fantasy land where time is infinite and people should suffer inconvenience in using a <redacted> APPLIANCE. Yes, Snap-on is <redacted> expensive, but you know that godforsaken Harbor Freight piece of garbage won't work when being paid flat rate.
Profanity is not allowed in the technical forums
Markfw
Anandtech Moderator
The idealists live in fantasy land where time is infinite and people should suffer inconvenience in using a <redacted> APPLIANCE. Yes, Snap-on is <redacted> expensive, but you know that godforsaken Harbor Freight piece of garbage won't work when being paid flat rate.
Profanity is not allowed in the technical forums
Markfw
Anandtech Moderator
Last edited by a moderator:
Torn Mind
Lifer
Synaptic is text based and tied to the repo of the distribution. It lists not only the software, but all dependencies IF THE REPO HAS the software. If not, it's repo hunting time and editing synaptic to add the new software. Stuff like Ubuntu's "software manager" is a newer development and not all users approve of such novelties.
Azuma Hazuki
Golden Member
Samba is very easy indeed. To the point I've memorized the basic config (warning: anonymous share, block off ports 137-139 from the WAN side)
/etc/samba/smb.conf
[global]
security = user
guest account = nobody
map to guest = bad user
[share-name]
comment = "Some comment here"
path = /path/to/share
guest ok = yes
read only = no
writeable = yes
browseable = yes
And there you are. CHMod the actual share folder properly, and you're set. I did that from memory.
/etc/samba/smb.conf
[global]
security = user
guest account = nobody
map to guest = bad user
[share-name]
comment = "Some comment here"
path = /path/to/share
guest ok = yes
read only = no
writeable = yes
browseable = yes
And there you are. CHMod the actual share folder properly, and you're set. I did that from memory.
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