This is why I dislike German Engineering (BMW content/requested pics)

[JCH13]

Not even. Most new BMWs I drove made me feel disconnected from the car.

Subjective opinion is subjective. They're still highly rated and highly reviewed despite your opinion.

 

[SSSnail]

What's the history of the car in the OP?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Subjective opinion is subjective. They're still highly rated and highly reviewed despite your opinion.

That's fine. Highly rated/reviewed means nothing to me.

Different strokes for different folks

What's the history of the car in the OP?

She bought the car brand new. She had a lot of different issues within first few months of ownership and I told her to get rid of it (lemon law). Anything from Vanos/Valve cover leak and few other things (don't remember).

But to be honest, after the initial scare the car has been fairly reliable. Just the door lock and button crap.

Other little things that happened over time were simple maintenance items (not even worth talking about) none reliability related.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

OP sucks at cars and mechanics and has no understanding of what he is criticizing, so should STFU.

<snip>

I guess it's a risk of bleeding edge. German engineering does get a lot right, for the record.

Basically, I agree with this. You took switches apart and found the same contacts you'll find in ANY switch, regardless of make.

The big difference is in the BMW at least you can access the contacts. In a toyohondaru it would be a sealed "Switch panel" that you have to replace at $350. Instead you're bitching about the small parts when they allow you to take it apart?

Also, those wood cracks look like the sealant/clear coat to me. I wonder if someone put some cleaner chemical on it that damaged the cleared surface.


Past that, the german companies absolutely lead the pack in regards to technology. That can have its downsides, which is up to the owner to accept. I really think you have some sort of weird BMW 'issue'.. Maybe took something apart, couldn't get it back together, and blamed BMW forever after.

I have seen some stupid stuff from BMW, but nothing that even comes close to justifying your undying rage against them, and certainly nothing worse than you see on any other brand.



Also the claim that parts are more expensive is BS. *Maybe* 10% at most. We have had people come on here and list out water pumps, radiators, suspension, etc and the prices are very close.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

That's fine. Highly rated/reviewed means nothing to me.

Different strokes for different folks



She bought the car brand new. She had a lot of different issues within first few months of ownership and I told her to get rid of it (lemon law). Anything from Vanos/Valve cover leak and few other things (don't remember).

But to be honest, after the initial scare the car has been fairly reliable. Just the door lock and button crap.

Other little things that happened over time were simple maintenance items (not even worth talking about) none reliability related.

You really strike me as that kid who hates his parents' fancy car simply because it's different. You can't work on it, you can't do the oil changes, so you "hate" it because it's more complex than your VW.


If you think all modern BMW's have 'disconnected' steering then it really invalidates a lot of your argument, in my mind. There are a lot of valid complaints about BMW, but steering feel really isn't one of them.

What other modern luxury car has better steering?

 

[Vdubchaos]

You really strike me as that kid who hates his parents' fancy car simply because it's different. You can't work on it, you can't do the oil changes, so you "hate" it because it's more complex than your VW.

I love the BS assumptions you are making.

I've been doing my moms oil changes....what are you talking about willis?

In that regard it's actually less complex than my VW.....

If you think all modern BMW's have 'disconnected' steering then it really invalidates a lot of your argument, in my mind. There are a lot of valid complaints about BMW, but steering feel really isn't one of them.

What other modern luxury car has better steering?

Yeah cause you opinion > others

I wouldn't be the first to complain about dummed down steering feel of modern BMWs.....

Other modern luxury cars? Perhaps that's the issue, they all SUCK and have 0 driver feedback.

:biggrin:

 

[Doppel]

Same thing could be said of British engineering, except the quality of workmanship is incredibly low, and you will have random, even simple stuff break! For that reason alone, I rarely drive my 1972 Jaguar XJ6.

I think the last thing well engineered in England was the Spitfire :biggrin:

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I love the BS assumptions you are making.

I've been doing my moms oil changes....what are you talking about willis?

In that regard it's actually less complex than my VW.....




Yeah cause you opinion > others

I wouldn't be the first to complain about dummed down steering feel of modern BMWs.....

Other modern luxury cars? Perhaps that's the issue, they all SUCK and have 0 driver feedback.

:biggrin:

Well what metric do you want to use? Cars change, people's tastes change. You can't blame them for accommodating that, blame the general car driving populace.


I'm saying that if you're going to complain about BMW steering feel then you need to compare it to something relevant.

Edit: And you know I'm just teasing you.. I have full faith in your ability to drive a bmw up on ramps and loosen a drain bolt. Just don't touch any electronics.

 

[Jimzz]

PS, I'm SHOCKED at the responses here. I thought I was going to get my ass chewed for even daring to say anything bad about BMW/german cars.

(seemed like there was TON of Euro snobs around here).....aka BMW humpers.

I was going to add this to my original post but here is another example. Apparently BMW can't even design a door handle mechanism worth a shit. This happened to my mom's X5 as well. When I took off the broken mechanism I was shocked BMW designed it this way. They could've made the metal piece wider and used stronger metal...but no.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/52359-broken-outside-door-handle-fix.html



Entire "direct injection" thing is scary (to me)....and a big turn off.

I don't think I would buy a car that has it at this point.....YET, EVERYONE is heading that way.

Figure 5-10 more years the technology will improve/become more reliable...who knows. I said that 5 years ago and it hasn't happened yet.

From what I have read and seen seems most are not having major issues with their DI. European makes are the ones having the biggest problems, esp VW/Audi. The lexus 250 I have read some minor issues so I wanted her to go to the Lexus 350 as the 350 has 2 fuel injectors per Cyl (1 direct and the other on top of the valve).

GM and Ford are using DI and I have not heard or seen any major issues with them. The lexus I have only heard small things about the 250. But nothing anywhere near as bad as some European makes.

 

[mgttr]

Ohh god, British engineering makes German engineers look good!!!

I had a 1971 MGB, and when I got rid of it I thought I'd never again have a car that unreliable. Then I bought a brand new 2000 BMW 328i. It would take a couple of pages to list everything that broke on the BMW over the course of 5 years and 55K miles. No more BMWs for me. Probably no more German cars period (yes, it was that bad of an experience).

 

[hans007]

From what I have read and seen seems most are not having major issues with their DI. European makes are the ones having the biggest problems, esp VW/Audi. The lexus 250 I have read some minor issues so I wanted her to go to the Lexus 350 as the 350 has 2 fuel injectors per Cyl (1 direct and the other on top of the valve).

GM and Ford are using DI and I have not heard or seen any major issues with them. The lexus I have only heard small things about the 250. But nothing anywhere near as bad as some European makes.

Its an issue on most di engines at least the carbon buildup. Lexus on the 350 has port injection as well which washes the deposits away and Mercedes does this in the new c350 .

Vw and BMW adopted di earlier so its why you hear more stories. But Mazda had it on the speed 3/6 and it has the same problems. Friend of mine had it on an 05 speed 6 and after 40k ish miles carbon buildup had caused some cel to go off intermittently

 

[Vdubchaos]

I had a 1971 MGB, and when I got rid of it I thought I'd never again have a car that unreliable. Then I bought a brand new 2000 BMW 328i. It would take a couple of pages to list everything that broke on the BMW over the course of 5 years and 55K miles. No more BMWs for me. Probably no more German cars period (yes, it was that bad of an experience).

You are NOT the only one with this sort of experience hehe

But BMW (and most German car makers) are like the Apple of the car world. They are PERFECT and there is many hummpers that will line up and support their ways.

:biggrin:

 

[GTaudiophile]

My parents owned BMWs from 1979-1997 or so. Their first 320i lasted them 11 years without any major problems. Their last E30 M3 blew two head-gaskets inside of one post-warranty year, costing around $4K each time for replacement/labor. I think after dropping nearly $10K in repairs in 1996/1997, my dad was done.

His next car was a RAV4 of all things. He's had it since 1997 and it has nearly 350K miles on it. Best car he's ever owned.

He's now 62, divorced/single, has three pensions, owns two homes, has zero debt, and no desire whatsoever to buy another German car.

As for me? If I had a need for a car, I would consider the GVII VW Golf, current BMW 328i, current 128i, new Audi S3/A3, but I think that's about it. If I was bleeding cash, of course the Porsche Boxster/911 would be on my wish list. Perhaps an M3/M5 as well. Otherwise, I can't think of any other German cars I'd love to own. Not even an R8.

In my mind, I know that German cars make no sense. When you factor in depreciation, speeding tickets, insurance, premium gas, maintenance, etc, they just make no sense whatsoever.

But why oh why DO THEY HAVE TO FEEL SO AMAZING to drive? So solid! So good looking! The way the leather smells. The quality of the plastic! Nothing comes close. So my heart still says: BUY GERMAN!

 

[Jimzz]

Its an issue on most di engines at least the carbon buildup. Lexus on the 350 has port injection as well which washes the deposits away and Mercedes does this in the new c350 .

Vw and BMW adopted di earlier so its why you hear more stories. But Mazda had it on the speed 3/6 and it has the same problems. Friend of mine had it on an 05 speed 6 and after 40k ish miles carbon buildup had caused some cel to go off intermittently

GM has not had any major issues with theirs, the CTS alone has sold hundreds of thousand's DI motors but I can't find any solid cases of carbon issues. GM has used DI for a decade now, Ford for over a decade as well. So BMW was not the first yet they and VW/Audi seem to be plagued very badly when others keep humming along. GM is even going DI in their next generation Corvette and Truck motors.

Not all DI engine are made the same. That and the worse cases seem to be in European cars, which already have enough problems before going DI.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Basically, I agree with this. You took switches apart and found the same contacts you'll find in ANY switch, regardless of make.

The big difference is in the BMW at least you can access the contacts. In a toyohondaru it would be a sealed "Switch panel" that you have to replace at $350. Instead you're bitching about the small parts when they allow you to take it apart?

How about this, make buttons that don't fall apart after a year or 2?

Is it REALLY that hard? I've seen POS Poilish fiats and communist cars have buttons that lasted longer.



There wouldn't be no bitching if BMW knew how to design proper buttons.

But they don't!

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I dunno, my BMW buttons have always been perfectly fine.

 

[SSSnail]

Anecdotal experiences aside, the buttons in my car have not fallen off, nor they are intending to. But then again, I don't treat my car like a bumper car either. From the pictures, I thought it came from the salvage yard. I guess that isn't the case...

Anyways, myself and a few others I guess can go on living happily with our cars, while you carry on the hate. Hate on brother. But one thing is certain, you will find a lot more things that are wrong with a VW than you will with a BMW, according to my statistics.

 

[AdamK47]

I love my simple pushrod engines! Even I can understand them and work on them when needed.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Anecdotal experiences aside, the buttons in my car have not fallen off, nor they are intending to. But then again, I don't treat my car like a bumper car either. From the pictures, I thought it came from the salvage yard. I guess that isn't the case....

What?

Anyways, myself and a few others I guess can go on living happily with our cars, while you carry on the hate. Hate on brother. But one thing is certain, you will find a lot more things that are wrong with a VW than you will with a BMW, according to my statistics.

Right, so far that hasn't been the case (3 VWs in our family and 2 BMWs)

 

[PhoKingGuy]

What?



Right, so far that hasn't been the case (3 VWs in our family and 2 BMWs)

That sounds like a you problem

 

[iamwiz82]

GM has not had any major issues with theirs, the CTS alone has sold hundreds of thousand's DI motors but I can't find any solid cases of carbon issues. GM has used DI for a decade now, Ford for over a decade as well. So BMW was not the first yet they and VW/Audi seem to be plagued very badly when others keep humming along. GM is even going DI in their next generation Corvette and Truck motors.

Not all DI engine are made the same. That and the worse cases seem to be in European cars, which already have enough problems before going DI.

There are over 1,000 hits for carbon build on cadillacforums.com.

16,000 mile DI engine:

 

[Jimzz]

There are over 1,000 hits for carbon build on cadillacforums.com.

16,000 mile DI engine:

And most of those hits are asking if there is a problem, not there is a problem.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...carbon-build-up-direct-injection-engines.html


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...0/190115-direct-injection-carbon-buildup.html

And you notice most replays are..

"So far I have not had any problems with my 08 DI with 38,000 miles."
"I can honestly say I have never seen one bit of carbon."

You have a link to the thread that discuses the problem? The pictures you posted do not go back to the Cadillac forums.

 

[Baked]

For some people Status Symbol > Practicality

I love my Made in Japan Toyota manufactured coupe (Scion tC). Bough it new in 05, with 37K on the clock now. Zero issues. Maintenance at dealership every 5K. I've been changing my own oil after the freebie ran out.

 

[GT1999]

I've always owned Japenese cars except my VERY first, which was a Straight 6 Cyl Ford F150 pickup.

Next, I will be going German. At least VW, but most likely an Audi A4 (new or used). I like the solid feel of German cars. I also like Apple laptops.

Kill me, vdub. lol

Repair costs are indeed through the roof, though. Apple products are built well, German -- that's questionable. It's unfortunate that you pay a premium yet don't get the reliability of a Japanese car...

 

[Murloc]

macro photography: -1/10
Germans didn't lose the war because of their engineering but because of Hitler.